Hi. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the rudder draft in inches for both the keel and keel/centerboard versions of the shoal-draft model O'Day 28. I know that the rudder on the keel/centerboard version is shorter than the one on the regular shoal draft version(meaning that the keel/canterboard rudder configuration draws less water). this makes the sailing carachteristics very different: The shorter rudder causes the boat to tack itself due to heavy weather helm. So this means that you can't push the boat like you would want to; for fear that the boat would tack or "Round up" during close-quarters racing situations. Help on this is appreciated--BM
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Rudders and things
Hi Ben. According to dimensions at this site, the 2 models were the deep keel and the shoalkeel/CB. The deep keel draws 4'8", and the shoalkeel/CB draws 3'3" (board up), 6'10" board down. If the design follows my 25, the rudder would be the same depth as the shoal keel/CB (board up), so should be around 3'3" below the waterline. Hopefully you or some other OD28 owner can confirm this? I can't say for sure if O'Day made 2 rudder depths for each model? But I would doubt it. As far as weather helm, I would think other factors play a more important role in helm. The usual like % canvass up for given wind condition, ratios of sailplan (jib vs main) for given wind condition, mast position (rake),underwater hull design (keel, tumblehome) and to a lesser extent rudder profile. I would look at what needs adjusting above the waterline, rather than what needs changing below the water. To me it comes down to what I can cheaply and manageably tweek to alter helm feel. Don
Hi Ben. According to dimensions at this site, the 2 models were the deep keel and the shoalkeel/CB. The deep keel draws 4'8", and the shoalkeel/CB draws 3'3" (board up), 6'10" board down. If the design follows my 25, the rudder would be the same depth as the shoal keel/CB (board up), so should be around 3'3" below the waterline. Hopefully you or some other OD28 owner can confirm this? I can't say for sure if O'Day made 2 rudder depths for each model? But I would doubt it. As far as weather helm, I would think other factors play a more important role in helm. The usual like % canvass up for given wind condition, ratios of sailplan (jib vs main) for given wind condition, mast position (rake),underwater hull design (keel, tumblehome) and to a lesser extent rudder profile. I would look at what needs adjusting above the waterline, rather than what needs changing below the water. To me it comes down to what I can cheaply and manageably tweek to alter helm feel. Don
Not what you asked but ....
Ben - I would call Rudy Nickerson for the rudder dimmensions, but I would be surprised if there are that many different rudders out there. As far as weatherhelm and broaching, look first at the balance between main and jib trim. If you slightly overtrim the main and slightly under trim the jib, maybe coupled with moving the jib lead cars forward a notch, you will find the boat stays down better. Then mast rake and pre-bend can be adjusted shoreside for any even greater effect. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Ben - I would call Rudy Nickerson for the rudder dimmensions, but I would be surprised if there are that many different rudders out there. As far as weatherhelm and broaching, look first at the balance between main and jib trim. If you slightly overtrim the main and slightly under trim the jib, maybe coupled with moving the jib lead cars forward a notch, you will find the boat stays down better. Then mast rake and pre-bend can be adjusted shoreside for any even greater effect. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
thanx
Thank you. I know about what you guys are talking about with the rigging tuning and the canvas flying %. My dad spent 3 years on the ocean and has a good sailing background- and he seemed to think that the rigging tuning would have something to do with it, but both of us thought that it would have something to do with that is in the water. We owned a full-keel (I guess) OD28 and NEVER had that kind of problem. Dad said that he'd never seen a boat do that. But because this was a privately-owned boat being chartered at a marina across the lake I am referring to-and my dad wasn't about to spend 4 hours tuning the rigging- that could have allot to do with it. Both of us are certain that the rigging does play a role, but moreso the underwater configuration. Like I said above, we NEVER had that kind of a problem with Telperion (Our boat). What I am getting at is that when the boat heels over, and more of the rudder comes out of the water; it creates less rudder available to correct the weather helm, which is caused by the assmytrecal, almost bananna-like hull shape. so the situation is this: as the boat is heading to windward and is heeling over more and more, with the shape of the hull creating the weather helm, while our skipper is compensating for the weather helm through the wheel and rudder, less and less rudder is available to correct the weather helm. with a short stubby rudder, the helmsman will eventually loose controll and whe boat will tack itself-eventually- and the boat rounds up and does a trick for you- a 180- which should Not nessecarily be rewarded with a treat(Mabye a coat of wax or something) to whichever way our "Bananna" is pointing (Which in this was to leeward). Now the boat has officially tacked itself. What happens if you were side-by-side with another vessel in a race while the boat did this? I'll tell ya what happens. Lots of bad words are yelled into the air to noone in piticular- and a BIG mess to clean up with your shop vac. This means that our skipper can't sail his boat the way he wants to. So you could tune the rigging and fly less canvas so that this didn't happen-but why have a grandmother boat that you can't push as hard as you want to? Sure they could have a centerboard to help the boat's tracking to windward- but what about the rudder? this puts the manufacturer in a dilemma. As far as I am concerned, this is just a very BASIC flaw. At 15 I do't know a whole lot of this stuff- but it halps to listen to people like u and my dad. O well. I really wish he hadn't sold Telperion. There is a pic. of her in the owner Photo Album if yer interested. Those of you who have read the Lore Of The Rings knows what the word means. But anyway I'm glad that Amazing Grace here I am talking about (she really wasn't so Graceful afterall) was just a charter boat.
-BM
Thank you. I know about what you guys are talking about with the rigging tuning and the canvas flying %. My dad spent 3 years on the ocean and has a good sailing background- and he seemed to think that the rigging tuning would have something to do with it, but both of us thought that it would have something to do with that is in the water. We owned a full-keel (I guess) OD28 and NEVER had that kind of problem. Dad said that he'd never seen a boat do that. But because this was a privately-owned boat being chartered at a marina across the lake I am referring to-and my dad wasn't about to spend 4 hours tuning the rigging- that could have allot to do with it. Both of us are certain that the rigging does play a role, but moreso the underwater configuration. Like I said above, we NEVER had that kind of a problem with Telperion (Our boat). What I am getting at is that when the boat heels over, and more of the rudder comes out of the water; it creates less rudder available to correct the weather helm, which is caused by the assmytrecal, almost bananna-like hull shape. so the situation is this: as the boat is heading to windward and is heeling over more and more, with the shape of the hull creating the weather helm, while our skipper is compensating for the weather helm through the wheel and rudder, less and less rudder is available to correct the weather helm. with a short stubby rudder, the helmsman will eventually loose controll and whe boat will tack itself-eventually- and the boat rounds up and does a trick for you- a 180- which should Not nessecarily be rewarded with a treat(Mabye a coat of wax or something) to whichever way our "Bananna" is pointing (Which in this was to leeward). Now the boat has officially tacked itself. What happens if you were side-by-side with another vessel in a race while the boat did this? I'll tell ya what happens. Lots of bad words are yelled into the air to noone in piticular- and a BIG mess to clean up with your shop vac. This means that our skipper can't sail his boat the way he wants to. So you could tune the rigging and fly less canvas so that this didn't happen-but why have a grandmother boat that you can't push as hard as you want to? Sure they could have a centerboard to help the boat's tracking to windward- but what about the rudder? this puts the manufacturer in a dilemma. As far as I am concerned, this is just a very BASIC flaw. At 15 I do't know a whole lot of this stuff- but it halps to listen to people like u and my dad. O well. I really wish he hadn't sold Telperion. There is a pic. of her in the owner Photo Album if yer interested. Those of you who have read the Lore Of The Rings knows what the word means. But anyway I'm glad that Amazing Grace here I am talking about (she really wasn't so Graceful afterall) was just a charter boat.
-BM- Status