When I changed over to my IdaSailor rudder, I installed a gas spring strut to hold my rudder down, and allow the rudder to move around obstructions. Because of the positioning of the strut ends, I was able to find a position that both held the rudder down and held the rudder up. My first impressions of this mod were good, but there were some problems. Firstly, the strut was way too strong. When I lowered the rudder, if I did not hang on to it, it banged down. Also, I had to stand on the swim ladder and pull aft to break it over center when beaching. The strut needed at least a 75 and maybe a 100 lbs of force to collapse it. (Came off of a Swearigen Metro III engine cowl). I have found a new source for a gas strut with 25 lbs of force. The website is www.surpluscenter.com. About $5 cost and another $5 for shipping. Now to change over. I feel that 25 lbs will be more than enough to hold the rudder down, and I hope to be able to break the rudder assy over center from the back of the cockpit. John S
- Status
Keep me posted
Please keep me posted on your progress..would like to try this mod on my 26d. Can you send pix when complete? Thanks Marty 26d "Mishugas" martyfreed@Earthlink.net
Please keep me posted on your progress..would like to try this mod on my 26d. Can you send pix when complete? Thanks Marty 26d "Mishugas" martyfreed@Earthlink.net
Rudder Mod
Sure, Marty, I am really pressed for time right now, but I will try to get some pictures. This mod does away with any lines or pulleys on the rudder head. I just have one line to the back of the rudder to make sure the rudder stays up on the ramp. I cleat it off on the top of my tiller. The first time I used this mod, I launched my boat at a notorious boat launch that has shallow rocks all around, sure enough, I found them and the rudder just folded enough to clear the obstructions. Subsequent testing showed that the rudder does not need 75-100 lbs of force to stay down, and a lighter gas spring will be better all around. The rudder is drilled for the sacrificial bolts that IdaSailor provides, but with the spring, I don't ever use them. John S
Sure, Marty, I am really pressed for time right now, but I will try to get some pictures. This mod does away with any lines or pulleys on the rudder head. I just have one line to the back of the rudder to make sure the rudder stays up on the ramp. I cleat it off on the top of my tiller. The first time I used this mod, I launched my boat at a notorious boat launch that has shallow rocks all around, sure enough, I found them and the rudder just folded enough to clear the obstructions. Subsequent testing showed that the rudder does not need 75-100 lbs of force to stay down, and a lighter gas spring will be better all around. The rudder is drilled for the sacrificial bolts that IdaSailor provides, but with the spring, I don't ever use them. John S
Like to see that
That sounds pretty awesome. I just went to using the plastic bolts that you can get from IDAsailor, my down haul would never hold it all the way down. Having the rudder all the way down makes a huge difference. Great idea John.
That sounds pretty awesome. I just went to using the plastic bolts that you can get from IDAsailor, my down haul would never hold it all the way down. Having the rudder all the way down makes a huge difference. Great idea John.
Disposable bolts?
GregS, I've looked at the Ida-bolts, but they don't seem practical for me. I seem to ground my rudder at least once an outing--either when beaching the boat or anchoring in shallow water. Do you reach over and remove the bolt when going shallow, sheer it off and replace it, or just stay in deep water? Same question for retrieving the boat at the ramp. Thanks.
GregS, I've looked at the Ida-bolts, but they don't seem practical for me. I seem to ground my rudder at least once an outing--either when beaching the boat or anchoring in shallow water. Do you reach over and remove the bolt when going shallow, sheer it off and replace it, or just stay in deep water? Same question for retrieving the boat at the ramp. Thanks.
That's the trick
Unfortunatly the lake I'm in now is a big mud puddle with no beaches, so I've always been deep (so far, irrigation is heating up and it's going to drop in a hurry) But actually when I was at a lake with a beach i'd get shallow but I wouldn't beach it, but still the rudder would need to come up a bit, that would be a pain. That's why I like Johns idea. I havne't sheered one off yet, but.... When I raise my rudder I take the nut off and pull it out, I have to work it back and forth a bit(raise the rudder up and down) but it comes out. I've heard of someone else that uses bolts you can get for toliet seats, same principle, easily had and cheap I'd imagine. I'll give that a try once I break or lose the two I have.
Unfortunatly the lake I'm in now is a big mud puddle with no beaches, so I've always been deep (so far, irrigation is heating up and it's going to drop in a hurry) But actually when I was at a lake with a beach i'd get shallow but I wouldn't beach it, but still the rudder would need to come up a bit, that would be a pain. That's why I like Johns idea. I havne't sheered one off yet, but.... When I raise my rudder I take the nut off and pull it out, I have to work it back and forth a bit(raise the rudder up and down) but it comes out. I've heard of someone else that uses bolts you can get for toliet seats, same principle, easily had and cheap I'd imagine. I'll give that a try once I break or lose the two I have.
Pic 1
Here is the rudder as it works on my boat right now. No pulleys necessary, just the one line to make sure the rudder stays up.
Here is the rudder as it works on my boat right now. No pulleys necessary, just the one line to make sure the rudder stays up.
Pic 2
Here is the bottom of the strut where the clevis fork attaches to the screw in stud on the top of the rudder
Here is the bottom of the strut where the clevis fork attaches to the screw in stud on the top of the rudder
Pic 3
Here is the strut in the upper part of the rudder head. The strut is offset to starboard. There are some relief holes in the rudder head to get the rudder to fold up as high as possible. For saltwater operations, one should install a SSteel strut (available from IdaSailor). Thanks to Joel S for his help in making this mod. John S
Here is the strut in the upper part of the rudder head. The strut is offset to starboard. There are some relief holes in the rudder head to get the rudder to fold up as high as possible. For saltwater operations, one should install a SSteel strut (available from IdaSailor). Thanks to Joel S for his help in making this mod. John S
Mods
That is my adjustable backstay hanging over the stern, and those are my step covers that allow one to stand on the rungs of my swim ladder without excrutiating pain. Particularly effective on the last, curved rung. John S
That is my adjustable backstay hanging over the stern, and those are my step covers that allow one to stand on the rungs of my swim ladder without excrutiating pain. Particularly effective on the last, curved rung. John S
New Gas Strut
It looks like the new gas strut from www.surpluscenter.com will fit right on the rudder with no new holes. Many of these lift struts have at least one end that threads off, and clevis forks are available from your local rigging supply. I'll swap the new one out as soon as I get time. John S
It looks like the new gas strut from www.surpluscenter.com will fit right on the rudder with no new holes. Many of these lift struts have at least one end that threads off, and clevis forks are available from your local rigging supply. I'll swap the new one out as soon as I get time. John S
Length of strut?
Another nice mod! thats for sharing!!! OK, so 30-40# is about right, but what lenght of rod (piston) is needed. Looking at the suplus site they talk about lbs and lenght of travel. what lenght did you use? -when you hit a rock, the rudder doenst really kick up, but 'gives' and returns to full down position once over the rock? is this correct? to fully raise, you need to attacht a line to bottom of rudder, that drags in water, correct? any other observations on this mod? thanks in advance!
Another nice mod! thats for sharing!!! OK, so 30-40# is about right, but what lenght of rod (piston) is needed. Looking at the suplus site they talk about lbs and lenght of travel. what lenght did you use? -when you hit a rock, the rudder doenst really kick up, but 'gives' and returns to full down position once over the rock? is this correct? to fully raise, you need to attacht a line to bottom of rudder, that drags in water, correct? any other observations on this mod? thanks in advance!
Rudder retraction
Thank You. You are right the rudder just collapses a little bit and then straightens. I will measure and post dimensions. The rope hole is out of the water which is one of the current problems, it does not give me much leverage to pull against the strong strut. John S
Thank You. You are right the rudder just collapses a little bit and then straightens. I will measure and post dimensions. The rope hole is out of the water which is one of the current problems, it does not give me much leverage to pull against the strong strut. John S
Another non S mod 
(torque)
Can't see how I'd implement this on an S but I like it. Seems more like you should worry about torque in this arrangement. The lever arm being the distance from the end of the rudder to where the strut attaches. I'm guess around 3 feet. So if it's a 75# strut, it would take 25# force to kick it up. Make it kind of heavy to hoist up out of the water unless you have a quick release on the strut. I have a uphaul and down haul on my Ida rudder, although now I use the bolt and it works much better(than down haul) .
(torque)Can't see how I'd implement this on an S but I like it. Seems more like you should worry about torque in this arrangement. The lever arm being the distance from the end of the rudder to where the strut attaches. I'm guess around 3 feet. So if it's a 75# strut, it would take 25# force to kick it up. Make it kind of heavy to hoist up out of the water unless you have a quick release on the strut. I have a uphaul and down haul on my Ida rudder, although now I use the bolt and it works much better(than down haul) .
Pulling it up
Greg, I wanted the strut to hold the rudder up as well, so that is part of why I used one so strong. When I pull up the rudder as it is now, I can just barely pull it up, and only if I climb down the ladder so my feet get wet. Also, if single-handed, I am not really able to steer too well til I get back aboard. I will sacrifice the hold-up ability, for the ability to quickly retract the rudder.
Greg, I wanted the strut to hold the rudder up as well, so that is part of why I used one so strong. When I pull up the rudder as it is now, I can just barely pull it up, and only if I climb down the ladder so my feet get wet. Also, if single-handed, I am not really able to steer too well til I get back aboard. I will sacrifice the hold-up ability, for the ability to quickly retract the rudder.
Strut Length
I got a chance to measure the new gas strut from the Surplus Center. It is about 30 in overall when extended, and about 17 in collapsed. 13 in is enough to deal with the travel. I am going to reposition my mounting points so that the strut only holds down, as I don't think it has enough strength to hold up the rudder, as the other one just barely did. Repositioning the strut will hopefully allow me to retract the rudder easier. I am not going to work in 100 weather, though, it will wait til it cools down. Instead, I am working on my bimini top. John S
I got a chance to measure the new gas strut from the Surplus Center. It is about 30 in overall when extended, and about 17 in collapsed. 13 in is enough to deal with the travel. I am going to reposition my mounting points so that the strut only holds down, as I don't think it has enough strength to hold up the rudder, as the other one just barely did. Repositioning the strut will hopefully allow me to retract the rudder easier. I am not going to work in 100 weather, though, it will wait til it cools down. Instead, I am working on my bimini top. John S
- Status