Rigid coolant hoses, is this normal or do they need to be replaced?

[Jazz]

The engine is a Universal 25xpbc on a 2001 Catalina 310. I'm needing to replace 2 worn hoses, so I figured I would do all of them. However, two of the four (11/8") are absolutely rigid. They almost looked rapped in something. The two others are molded, engine specific, normal type and will be replaced. My question is should the 2 rigid ones be replaced? Should I bother messing with them? They have a rock solid feel and can not be squeezed or deflected at all. Is this a special hose? Do I need to get them off? They may need to be sawed off some how. Or should I leave well enough alone? Any insight is appreciated. Photos attached. Thanks

 

[Calif. Ted]

The upper picture appears to be wire wound exhaust hose which is extremely rigid.

 

[Jazz]

The upper picture appears to be wire wound exhaust hose which is extremely rigid.

Interesting! This may be a case of over kill. This hose has got to be a coolant hose, going from the exhaust manifold (filled with antifreeze) to the fresh water heat exchanger. Unless I'm wrong on that. But if not, then I may be better off leaving well enough alone since these two hoses are serviceable currently. I do believe these two get hotter (160º) then the other worn hoses.

 

[JoeWhite]

I just replaced all of coolant hoses including that one. That is a hard wall hose. You must accurately measure and cut with hacksaw. Use lanolin to lubricate the inside to make it easier for installation. Replace hose clamps aswell.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jazz, Joe is right. They NEED to be replaced, just like all the rest. I use Lanocote to slide them on and be able to get them off again. Which you will have to do sometime in the far distant future. You'll be as sorry if you didn't as you will if the PO didn't, but those look like OEM hoses from the paint on them. While my engine is slightly different, I, too, have some short tight fits. Takes patience. Good luck.

 

[Jazz]

I really appreciate the feedback Gentlemen. Like I said, I'm new to diesels (atomic 4 on last C30) and I proceed with caution on all things. All this started by finding a fresh water line line squeezed against a bolt of rear engine mount. Lucked out that it happened at a port of call and there was enough hose to cut and reattach. Had to literally cut 1/4 inch off top of bolt in order not to repeat. Then found, accidentally, that the molded hose under the manifold (from bottom front of manifold to HX) had warn almost thru on the starter. Rubs cuts seem to be occurring on many hoses. This leads me to the hose inquiry here. And while I'm at it, I'll flush the coolant and put new in. Any suggestions on that?
Again, Ted, Joe, and Stu Thank you!
Mike

 

[JRT]

The molded hose should be replaced. I just did that one and the small one that is in the front. They were the last 2 original hoses that were showing the same wear issues. I cut some extra hose and put around those rub points too.

The top hose from the thermostat on mine is still original and looks fine so I did not replace it.

 

[Jazz]

Guys, What would be the preferred hose to use for this application, it calls out 11/8" hose.

 

[Jazz]

The molded hose should be replaced. I just did that one and the small one that is in the front. They were the last 2 original hoses that were showing the same wear issues. I cut some extra hose and put around those rub points too.

The top hose from the thermostat on mine is still original and looks fine so I did not replace it.

That is exactly what I intend to do. I just figured since I've got antifreeze all over, might as well bring all the hoses back to new and also put in new antifreeze. Now I'm looking for the type of hose I should use. Is it specialized or just reinforced coolant? I know the molded one that I got from catalina direct was wired inside. Thanks JRT

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jazz, you keep saying "molded hoses." Based on my experience (21 years with my M25 diesel, also new-to-me after decades with outboards), hoses either get soft or get super hard. They are NOT molded, at least not on any Universal engine I've ever heard of.

Get wire reinforced hose of the proper size and go for it.

Good luck.

 

[JRT]

@Jazz I bought the Z4780 and Z4781 from Catalina. The previous owner replaced all the other coolant hoses, I think they were by the foot with very few bends.

Engine Cooling

Catalina Direct, publishers of the Catalina 22 and Catalina 25 Owner's Handbooks and the largest supplier of parts and Lewmar winches for Catalina Yachts in the country

www.catalinadirect.com

 

[Jazz]

@Jazz I bought the Z4780 and Z4781 from Catalina. The previous owner replaced all the other coolant hoses, I think they were by the foot with very few bends.

Engine Cooling

Catalina Direct, publishers of the Catalina 22 and Catalina 25 Owner's Handbooks and the largest supplier of parts and Lewmar winches for Catalina Yachts in the country

www.catalinadirect.com

Yes, those are the "molded" hoses that I was referring to in my posts the Stu questioned. Some of those other ones are 11/8" ID if believe and I guess I could use any wire reinforced coolant hose, also as Stu noted. There is about 18" of those altogether. I truly appreciate everyones' input. Now, I just do it!!

thanks Mike

 

[jviss]

Changing hoses can be one of the most frustrating maintenance tasks. I learned on this forum of a tool that can make it much easier and faster, and that is a hose removal hook. As soon as I read that post I bought this:

Astro 9502 Hose Removal Hook Set, 2 Piece

The best $8 I every spent!

Also, I struggle with the need to change hoses. My new boat is a bit confusing in this regard, as the pics in the Westerbeke manual don't seem to match my installation in every way. I still can't say exactly how the seawater hoses are routed. But, I bought the molded hoses (two for $100!) and the wire-reinforced hose I think I need, as the ones I have appear original at 23 years old.

It's also frustrating trying to locate quality, fixed-size stainless hose clamps, as opposed to the worm-gear clamps. The former are preferred. (I have experienced numerous work gear hose clamp failures.)

I hope it works out well for you.

 

[Jazz]

Changing hoses can be one of the most frustrating maintenance tasks. I learned on this forum of a tool that can make it much easier and faster, and that is a hose removal hook. As soon as I read that post I bought this:

Astro 9502 Hose Removal Hook Set, 2 Piece

The best $8 I every spent!

Also, I struggle with the need to change hoses. My new boat is a bit confusing in this regard, as the pics in the Westerbeke manual don't seem to match my installation in every way. I still can't say exactly how the seawater hoses are routed. But, I bought the molded hoses (two for $100!) and the wire-reinforced hose I think I need, as the ones I have appear original at 23 years old.

It's also frustrating trying to locate quality, fixed-size stainless hose clamps, as opposed to the worm-gear clamps. The former are preferred. (I have experienced numerous work gear hose clamp failures.)

I hope it works out well for you.

Thanks Jviss, appreciated. Hadn't even considered fixed-size clamps. I've got to check those out and see how they are sized.

 

[jviss]

I like these. I'd like to purchase a collection of these for the sizes I need. I just have to go through the entire boat measuring all the clamps!

APACHE INC. HD Super T-Bolt SS Clamp

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

The Apache clamps are the ultimate for engine work as per @jviss. On other locations with no vibration, double SS gear clamps are close enough.

As far as removing and installing new hoses, I wouldn't make a move until I have a blow drier in one hand (for the hoses, not for hairs two and three ). Even wire wound hose will give, just a fraction of a hair with high heat (130-140) which can often mean the difference between outright killing yourself and just simply busting your a$$ to move a hose.

 

[NYSail]

When it comes to hoses I always say replace all of them..... With Yanmar, I just ordered all hoses directly from them and they come sized and pre-bent specific for the engine. Not sure if universal has that but would think so......

Good Luck!

 

[Maine Sail]

I like these. I'd like to purchase a collection of these for the sizes I need. I just have to go through the entire boat measuring all the clamps!

APACHE INC. HD Super T-Bolt SS Clamp

Please be very careful with spot-welded T-Band clamps for a marine application. They can corrode and fail at the spot welds. Also seen numerous instances of the 1/4" bolt snapping. This is most likely due to thread galling and then an owner continuing to tighten thus weakening the bolt to a point that it later fails. Before tightening any SS t-band clamp pre-lube the threads with a product such as Tef-Gel..

AWAB or ABA 316SS non-perforated hose clamps are the most reliable we've found in a marine application. The others would be non-spot welded t-band, or Oetiker style ear clamps for smaller hoses. Unfortunately the adjustment range on t-bands or ear clamps is very limited compared to an ABA or AWAB non-perf clamp.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Just saw this thread the Mainesail beat me to it on the AWAB/ABA style is better in this application than the T band.

Also, the molded hoses are a real thing on these engines. Hason Marine in Marblehead sells a hose kit for the engine that comes with everything except the hoses to the water heater. It comes in a small duffle bag and is very convenient. Costs a little more than buying the hoses separately.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

 

[jviss]

Please be very careful with spot-welded T-Band clamps for a marine application. They can corrode and fail at the spot welds. Also seen numerous instances of the 1/4" bolt snapping. This is most likely due to thread galling and then an owner continuing to tighten thus weakening the bolt to a point that it later fails. Before tightening any SS t-band clamp pre-lube the threads with a product such as Tef-Gel..

AWAB or ABA 316SS non-perforated hose clamps are the most reliable we've found in a marine application. The others would be non-spot welded t-band, or Oetiker style ear clamps for smaller hoses. Unfortunately the adjustment range on t-bands or ear clamps is very limited compared to an ABA or AWAB non-perf clamp.

Thanks. I took a look online and found this PS test:
AWAB, ABA Top Long-term Test

While the T-bolt clamps didn't fail, PS came out recommending AWAB and ABA (I think - there's a bit of ambiguity in the sentence with the recommendation, i.e., does' "either" to mean either AWAB or ABA, or AWAB/ABA or t-bolt?).

Looking online further, I like the Scandvik clamps, i..e., non-perforated band worm clamps, rolled edge.

But I still prefer a fixed-size clamp over all.