Hey guys, let me seek some advice from the experts. I have been frustrated at times with what I precieve as a lack of pointing ability with my 170. I keep wondering if I have the rig tuned wrong, or if I am doing something wrong and what I could do differently. My wife thinks I am just bad at geometry, and I always tack too soon, when I don't have the angle I need. So yesterday, as an experiment, I sailed dead downwind a good distance just to see how well I could get back to the ramp, I was really surprised at how many tacks I had to make to get back home. It seems that the best I could do is make very slight progress against the wind (which was about 5 mph and not steady). It seems to point better in higher wind, and it seems to point higher on a starboard tack. I have no accurate way of measuring, but I am guessing that I was making no better than 60-70 degrees off the wind. I don't have a lot of experince, so I am not sure what normal is, but I was thinking more like 45degrees. Any input???? john
- Status
Shroud tension !
I had the same problem, I adjusted my shroud tension. If you go to "sailing obsession.com" and read some of the post there you will find one by Danny Hartzell, he has posted several good articles on the 170, one being shroud tenssion. I have my front shrouds set at hole no. 4, I think, I need to check to be sure, the back shrouds are looser. I point very well now, you do loose some down wind speed, but I rather point higher. hope this helped. Glenn
I had the same problem, I adjusted my shroud tension. If you go to "sailing obsession.com" and read some of the post there you will find one by Danny Hartzell, he has posted several good articles on the 170, one being shroud tenssion. I have my front shrouds set at hole no. 4, I think, I need to check to be sure, the back shrouds are looser. I point very well now, you do loose some down wind speed, but I rather point higher. hope this helped. Glenn
You need to measure the amount of mast rake you are carrying. In very light air it doesn't pay to try and point high. As the wind builds, pointing becomes much more effective. You should increase the mast rake to increase pointing. Mast rake for good pointing could be set at about 3% of mast height.
I have noticed the same thing. My shrouds have stretched since buying the boat new. A couple of weeks ago I went out and was very disappointed by my pointing capability. I also noticed while I was out that the windward shrouds wer in need of some tensioning. I took care of that last week and this past weekend it was like a different boat. I keep my windex tails calibrated to the boats pointing ability and I was amazed at how far inside the tails the back of the arrow was. I bet I gained 5 degrees or so.
Hunter 170 Tuning Guide
Hi all. This is the post that I made on Daysailors Forum, sponsored by Sailing Obsession. Hunter 170 Tuning Guide There has been questions from Hunter 170 owners, and posted on other forums about what the shroud tension should be on the h-170. I have been in contact with JY about a tuning guide for the h-170. As it turns out, there is none. So, I talked to the lead tech, and they do not use any gages on the shrouds. They just guess. I know, I know. Not a very good plan. I am working on some figures that seem to be promising. I am not done yet because I need to try them out under various conditions. However, I feel the following is pretty close. I am finding that 15% is good for light wind, 18% for all around sailing conditions, and 19% for stronger winds. Remember, within reason, too tight is safer and easier on your boat than too little tension because of "shock load". Also, the higher the tension, the better you point because of the tighter forestay. And with lower tension, the better your down wind performance in light wind. There is a trade-off. Also, some have suggested that a mast rake of 15% is needed. I disagree. A mast rake of 1.5% is best on a "mast head" rig. The h-170 is a "fractional rig", and I feel, it is better to have bit closer to 1% mast rake. In addition, if the mast is raked to 1.5%, then you will find that you have to much "weather helm". The following are my evaluations at this point: Mast Bend: 1% of mast height from head to boom. Example: h-170 mast = 24’1” (289”) Mast head to boom = 19.75’ (237”) 237” x 1% = 2.37” 1/8” cable breaking strength = 2100 * 1/8 “ @ 2100 lbs. x 15 % = 315 lbs. -------- Masthead rig, to prevent to excessive mast bend use only 15 %. * 1/8 “ @ 2100 lbs. x 19 % = 399 lbs. -------- Fractional rig w/swept back spreaders, tangs even with forestay. The lower shrouds are much more variable. I am finding that if you have upgraded to a Boom-Kicker and an 8:1 vang, then you can have a very light tension on the lowers. I like about 50 lbs., (measured with vang off). When you put on a lot of vang with an 8:1 and the B&R rig, that adds a lot of tension on the lowers. When I am completely satisfied with my figures, I will forward them onto Hunter. Hopefully, they will add the information as an amendment to the h-170 manual. Danny Hartzell
Hi all. This is the post that I made on Daysailors Forum, sponsored by Sailing Obsession. Hunter 170 Tuning Guide There has been questions from Hunter 170 owners, and posted on other forums about what the shroud tension should be on the h-170. I have been in contact with JY about a tuning guide for the h-170. As it turns out, there is none. So, I talked to the lead tech, and they do not use any gages on the shrouds. They just guess. I know, I know. Not a very good plan. I am working on some figures that seem to be promising. I am not done yet because I need to try them out under various conditions. However, I feel the following is pretty close. I am finding that 15% is good for light wind, 18% for all around sailing conditions, and 19% for stronger winds. Remember, within reason, too tight is safer and easier on your boat than too little tension because of "shock load". Also, the higher the tension, the better you point because of the tighter forestay. And with lower tension, the better your down wind performance in light wind. There is a trade-off. Also, some have suggested that a mast rake of 15% is needed. I disagree. A mast rake of 1.5% is best on a "mast head" rig. The h-170 is a "fractional rig", and I feel, it is better to have bit closer to 1% mast rake. In addition, if the mast is raked to 1.5%, then you will find that you have to much "weather helm". The following are my evaluations at this point: Mast Bend: 1% of mast height from head to boom. Example: h-170 mast = 24’1” (289”) Mast head to boom = 19.75’ (237”) 237” x 1% = 2.37” 1/8” cable breaking strength = 2100 * 1/8 “ @ 2100 lbs. x 15 % = 315 lbs. -------- Masthead rig, to prevent to excessive mast bend use only 15 %. * 1/8 “ @ 2100 lbs. x 19 % = 399 lbs. -------- Fractional rig w/swept back spreaders, tangs even with forestay. The lower shrouds are much more variable. I am finding that if you have upgraded to a Boom-Kicker and an 8:1 vang, then you can have a very light tension on the lowers. I like about 50 lbs., (measured with vang off). When you put on a lot of vang with an 8:1 and the B&R rig, that adds a lot of tension on the lowers. When I am completely satisfied with my figures, I will forward them onto Hunter. Hopefully, they will add the information as an amendment to the h-170 manual. Danny Hartzell
Crude but Works
Hello All, If I might relate how I set my shroud tension with pretty good results. Received instruction from a fine tech 'Brad' at NorthSails. Here goes: Tools Needed: 1: Level 2: Patience 3: 1-2 Hrs 4: A variety of pieces of boards to put under trailer wheels. 5: Calm or no wind Boat must be on trailer. Step mast with all shrouds and forestay attached. Lowers should be quite loose. Don't worry about which hole chainplates are set at for now. Pin forstay in furler drum. Drum should be in rear hole in bow bracket. Leave Boom off. Using a Level, check lower section of mast and level as close as possible to verticle. Use boards under trailer tires for side to side and tongue jack for front to back adjustment. Exact perfection not needed...just try to get close. Use caution when getting in boat from stern. I'm 200lb and if I'm not quick about it, stern slams to the ground. Ouch! Better jumping in from the side. Allow halyard to hang from back side of top of mast. OK to leave going thru pulleys. What you want to achieve is a distance of about 2 inches from the hanging halyard to the mast anywhere in the area near where the boom attaches. To claify: measure from free-hanging halyard to mast itself...not hardware. Achieve this by unpinning forestay and trying different holes in UPPERS chainplates and repinning forestay. Lowers are left attached but quite loose for now. Continue trial and error until as close to 2 inches is achieved with forestay attached to furler. Of course you'll need to use trailer winch and topping lift to pin and unpin forstay quite a bit during this process. I also rigged another rope loosely from trailer mast crutch post to mast as a safety. Once you have the approx 2 inch distance, lie in bottom of boat and sight up back of mast. You will see a distinct aft bend in the upper section of the mast. Good. Look for any bending or bowing side to side. My rig used same number hole on each upper chainplate. Didn't note any bowing but best to ensure there is none or as little as chainplate adjustments will eliminate. You will notice that pinning upper chainplates one hole different on each side will make a BIG difference in the halyard to mast measurement. Ultimately, you'll find only one setting will result in the close to 2 inch measurement. You will not be able to pin the forestay to furler drum by hand...will need the trailer winch. Next, adjust lowers to the first hole that results in Lowers being looser than Uppers. The correct setting will not affect the 2 inch measurement. Lie in bottom of boat again and sight up mast. Adjust Lowers if needed to acheive no or as little sideways bowing of Mast as possible. Again note that only one hole each side will produce this result. I'd love to check my rig with your Loo's Danny, but CA's a long tow from NY! Using your stats though, I think my rigging is close to your setup. Now, if Santa only remembers the Boomkicker Joe Brewerton NY
Hello All, If I might relate how I set my shroud tension with pretty good results. Received instruction from a fine tech 'Brad' at NorthSails. Here goes: Tools Needed: 1: Level 2: Patience 3: 1-2 Hrs 4: A variety of pieces of boards to put under trailer wheels. 5: Calm or no wind Boat must be on trailer. Step mast with all shrouds and forestay attached. Lowers should be quite loose. Don't worry about which hole chainplates are set at for now. Pin forstay in furler drum. Drum should be in rear hole in bow bracket. Leave Boom off. Using a Level, check lower section of mast and level as close as possible to verticle. Use boards under trailer tires for side to side and tongue jack for front to back adjustment. Exact perfection not needed...just try to get close. Use caution when getting in boat from stern. I'm 200lb and if I'm not quick about it, stern slams to the ground. Ouch! Better jumping in from the side. Allow halyard to hang from back side of top of mast. OK to leave going thru pulleys. What you want to achieve is a distance of about 2 inches from the hanging halyard to the mast anywhere in the area near where the boom attaches. To claify: measure from free-hanging halyard to mast itself...not hardware. Achieve this by unpinning forestay and trying different holes in UPPERS chainplates and repinning forestay. Lowers are left attached but quite loose for now. Continue trial and error until as close to 2 inches is achieved with forestay attached to furler. Of course you'll need to use trailer winch and topping lift to pin and unpin forstay quite a bit during this process. I also rigged another rope loosely from trailer mast crutch post to mast as a safety. Once you have the approx 2 inch distance, lie in bottom of boat and sight up back of mast. You will see a distinct aft bend in the upper section of the mast. Good. Look for any bending or bowing side to side. My rig used same number hole on each upper chainplate. Didn't note any bowing but best to ensure there is none or as little as chainplate adjustments will eliminate. You will notice that pinning upper chainplates one hole different on each side will make a BIG difference in the halyard to mast measurement. Ultimately, you'll find only one setting will result in the close to 2 inch measurement. You will not be able to pin the forestay to furler drum by hand...will need the trailer winch. Next, adjust lowers to the first hole that results in Lowers being looser than Uppers. The correct setting will not affect the 2 inch measurement. Lie in bottom of boat again and sight up mast. Adjust Lowers if needed to acheive no or as little sideways bowing of Mast as possible. Again note that only one hole each side will produce this result. I'd love to check my rig with your Loo's Danny, but CA's a long tow from NY! Using your stats though, I think my rigging is close to your setup. Now, if Santa only remembers the Boomkicker Joe Brewerton NY
thanks
thanks guys, I have to admit there is much I didn't understand in some of the responses, I will print them all and look up some stuff in my sailing books. Joe, your 'crude' system seems like something I can do without a text book, maybe I'll try that first!! My season is starting to come close to an end here in michigan, I am hoping to get a few more good trips in before raking leaves and mulching flower beds starts taking up all my free time! perhaps I will file this info for spring boat tune up. john
thanks guys, I have to admit there is much I didn't understand in some of the responses, I will print them all and look up some stuff in my sailing books. Joe, your 'crude' system seems like something I can do without a text book, maybe I'll try that first!! My season is starting to come close to an end here in michigan, I am hoping to get a few more good trips in before raking leaves and mulching flower beds starts taking up all my free time! perhaps I will file this info for spring boat tune up. john
- Status