performance question

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BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,009
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello, I'm have a simple question regarding boat performance. My boat is a 1986 Newport 28 mark II. According to some web sites I have visited, the PHRF number is 198. A faster boat, like a C&C 34 is rated at 147. I assume that means that after 1 nm, the C&C would be 51 seconds ahead. Or, after a 20nm trip,the C&C would finish 51s * 20nm = 1020 seconds, or 17 minutes. Are my calculations correct, or have I missed something? Thanks, Barry
 
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Peter

You're right

assuming the same equipment on the boats, and same location. Typically PHRF ratings allow for handicaps based on a boat with a smaller headsail configuration compared to FULL RACE (spinnaker, full genoa - although local fleets can change the assumption), which is how the base PHRF rating is determined. Different areas set different ratings based on their prevailing wind and sea condtions as well. In SF Bay, for example, boats that perform better in the prevailing higher winds will get a lower (i.e. faster) rating that they will in SoCal or the Chesapeake, which typically have lighter winds.
 
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Bob

Yes, sort of...

phrf is a racing oriented value, so it takes into consideration a lot of other factors and reflects sort of an average of the totals. It really means that in a race between your two boats, the C&C has to give you 51 seconds for every NM the race course covers in a straight line from mark to mark and around obstructions. This might not reflect the difference in your boats when sailing one NM on a single tack on, say, a broad reach. For boats that have been around a while, it represents an averaging of their performances against a theoretical ideal value, in this case 0 (though there are boats with negative phrf numbers.) So, theoretically at least, it includes the considerations that in light air one boat might be faster against the other (relatively speaking) while in heavier air that boat doesn't do as well compared to the other. Included also are other factors - one boat might point higher, or tack faster, or be better downwind, etc, etc. All these factors come into play, so that in the end the handicap number gives you a fair chance of winning your share of races over a season, even though on some days you might be advantaged by conditions, and on others disadvantaged. And all this assumes a boat in very good shape, with good crew and skipper. If you have older sails, or a dirty bottom, or any of a number of things that degrade your performance you won't come close to sailing to your handicap. Likewise for a knowledgeable skipper compared to a newcomer to racing. So just because there are 51 seconds between your ratings, don't bet your house that, starting side by side, the C&C will be 51 seconds ahead after one NM. And if he is a better skipper, in light air the gap could be more like 5 minutes. If you catch the first shift, you might more than cover that 51 and show him your heels. But over a season, averaging up your times, all other factors being equal, he should average about 51 seconds per course NM faster than you.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,775
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
A simple answer

Barry You're right. Stu PS avoiding all the unnecessary complexities of explaining phrf, all it means is that if the other guy wins (crosses the line) ahead of you by X seconds LESS than he has to give you, YOU win, even though you came in behind. It's that simple.
 
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PaulK

One more point

One point no one has made yet is that PHRF ratings are theoretically based on boats sailing a triangular (windward, reach,reach, windward, leeward) course. If your boat reaches really fast, but the Race Committee only has you racing windward-leeward courses, you may find it really difficult to sail as fast as your rating says you should. Some PHRF areas have separate ratings for W/L races because of this, and others have different ratings for distance and buoy races. Ours (YRALIS) does this, but in it's infinite wisdom, it deems our rating to be the same in each of them - even with or without spinnaker. I guess I can't complain about having an all-around fast boat.
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Does this mean......??????????

So.....if im looking at a new-to-me older boat and i was wondering ,if amongst other things, how well does this boat perform, all i would have to do is compare the PHRF ratings between the different models and look at the lowest number? If this is true, where can i get a list of the PHRF ratings for various model boats?
 
Jun 1, 2004
387
Crown 34 Sidney BC
In my opinion, yes, you can

it would be fair to say that the PHRF rating would give you a general idea of the relative and overall speediness (very technical term) of a particular make & model. If you were looking at a boat with a PHRF of 350 and another with a PHRF of 50, the first is going to be pretty slow compared to the latter.
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
PHRF Ratings?

Where can i find the PHRF ratings for various boats in order to help me make a decision on my nexxt purchase?
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Look up

Tony, do a Google look up on PRHF. There are several listings around the country. SF Bay, New England, Chesapeake are ones I'm familiar with. Each will rate the same boat differently, and each has a set of "measurement" criteria that will determine the rating. S/V Intrepid H34 Active racer in NERYC fleet
 

Jon W.

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May 18, 2004
401
Catalina 310 C310 Seattle Wa
PHRF NW

This link is to the PHRF Northwest member roster in Excel format (sortable). This is the actual boat handicaps for a light wind area. By deciphering the rating code, you can see what adjustments have been made from the base ratings. 1st digit is headsail, 2nd digit is spinnaker, 3rd digit is mainsail, 4th digit is propeller. 5’s are base. Lower number adds time allowance. Higher numbers penalize by subtracting time. The second digit replaced by a letter (A, B, C) indicates no spinnaker. “C” for example, is 21 seconds per mile added to the rating. A, and B add less. Highlight the entire table, than click on Data, then Sort, and then sort by class to re-arrange the table by boat type. BTW- I would not buy a boat myself without looking at the PHRF to get an idea how well it sails. The dogs will really stand out.
 
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PaulK

USSailing

US Sailing offers a complete list of some 3,000 or more designs and their ratings all over the country. They're having a special sale on them last I looked at their website: ussailing.org
 
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