My wife and I are looking for a new boat. We now sail a Oday Mariner and really like it but we would like a boat with a more usable cabin. The Mariner has a cabin but it is not much good for anything more than storage and a place to keep the porta potty I like the P-19 but I sail on small lakes in IL and do not like the vertical keel lifting systom. What I really want is a small cruiser with a swing keel that comes all the way up into the hull. I have looked over a lot of boats but I'm hoping one of you know of a boat we have not looker at yet, in other words HELP WE CANN'T FIND A BOAT. Rodger Sea Pea Aurora IL
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I looked a "WHILE" too....
I wandered through MARINAs, and found my other BOAT...a 92 MAC 26-S, with 8 HP Merc. A great boat, handled EXCELLENT, and TRAILERABLE ! BUT, since we enjoy overnighting on the boat, we needed the CABIN space of the MAC 26-X and found one. They're quite a few "FOR SALE" boats in our AREA...and PRICEs fluctuate GREATLY......Nice time to BUY during 'WINTER' !!!! DONT GIVE UP !! MARINAs are loaded with BARGAINS !! I sure reommend the MacGregor 26S or 26X .
I wandered through MARINAs, and found my other BOAT...a 92 MAC 26-S, with 8 HP Merc. A great boat, handled EXCELLENT, and TRAILERABLE ! BUT, since we enjoy overnighting on the boat, we needed the CABIN space of the MAC 26-X and found one. They're quite a few "FOR SALE" boats in our AREA...and PRICEs fluctuate GREATLY......Nice time to BUY during 'WINTER' !!!! DONT GIVE UP !! MARINAs are loaded with BARGAINS !! I sure reommend the MacGregor 26S or 26X .
Check out the Allmand 31
Rodger, I was in the same "boat" as you. Wanting and not knowing which one I really wanted. Sail them all,list everything you need and the things you want. I tagged over 200 boats from the internet and constantly watched Ebay. I was getting calls from brokers at marinas I visited I forgot what I was looking at there were so many Finially found one that met all my criteria and pleased my wife with centeral heat and air. Shallow draft and sturdy foundation were a must so check them out. Nice boats and reasonable too! good luck
Rodger, I was in the same "boat" as you. Wanting and not knowing which one I really wanted. Sail them all,list everything you need and the things you want. I tagged over 200 boats from the internet and constantly watched Ebay. I was getting calls from brokers at marinas I visited I forgot what I was looking at there were so many Finially found one that met all my criteria and pleased my wife with centeral heat and air. Shallow draft and sturdy foundation were a must so check them out. Nice boats and reasonable too! good luck
must single hand
I'm looking for something on the small side as I need to put the rig up and down without help. Keeping a slip anywhere near chicago cost alot more than I can spend. The closest marina to me that even comes close to affordable is in Hammand Indiana and they are over 2K for the shortest slip. So a small trailer sailor it needs to be. I would love a P-19 if it had a swing keel. On the lakes I sail I have dragged the swing keel of my Mariner more than one time no big deel with a swing keel but if I had been sailing a P-19 and hit something at speed with their drop keel it could really hurt.
I'm looking for something on the small side as I need to put the rig up and down without help. Keeping a slip anywhere near chicago cost alot more than I can spend. The closest marina to me that even comes close to affordable is in Hammand Indiana and they are over 2K for the shortest slip. So a small trailer sailor it needs to be. I would love a P-19 if it had a swing keel. On the lakes I sail I have dragged the swing keel of my Mariner more than one time no big deel with a swing keel but if I had been sailing a P-19 and hit something at speed with their drop keel it could really hurt.
Good boat
My brother has a MacGregor 21 swing keel that he can set up and launch, alone, in about 20 minutes. It is very trailerable and impressed me as to its capabilities the 4 or 5 times I sailed on it. He sailed it in the trans-Tahoe races a number of times, several of them in winds of 15 to 25. It has approximately the same sailing qualities as a Catalina 22, but is easier to trailer and set up, I think. Three people (one kid) have spent a week at a time in the San Juans on the boat, camping on shore sometimes. It's not the perfect boat, but rather a good combo of trailerability, decent performance, so-so accomodations, and low price. I have seen decent ones go for under 2k with trailer. Hard to beat that for an overnighter.
My brother has a MacGregor 21 swing keel that he can set up and launch, alone, in about 20 minutes. It is very trailerable and impressed me as to its capabilities the 4 or 5 times I sailed on it. He sailed it in the trans-Tahoe races a number of times, several of them in winds of 15 to 25. It has approximately the same sailing qualities as a Catalina 22, but is easier to trailer and set up, I think. Three people (one kid) have spent a week at a time in the San Juans on the boat, camping on shore sometimes. It's not the perfect boat, but rather a good combo of trailerability, decent performance, so-so accomodations, and low price. I have seen decent ones go for under 2k with trailer. Hard to beat that for an overnighter.
Mac 21?
Is it maybe a Mac 22 your brother has? I don't think I ever heard of a Mac 21. I know they made a 17 with a swing keel that hangs below the hull like on a Cat. 22 and a 22 footer with a swing keel that comes all the way up into the hull. I looked at one and south coast 22. The 2 boats are very much alike both have 500 lb swing keels that work off a winch just inside the cabin. It's the 500 lbs that kept me from buying the SC 22. when alone I would have to leave the helm to winch up the keel so I can get back in the cove by my camp site. I know knit knit knit but I am so happy with the way my Mariner sails it's hard to find a boat to replace it. Rodger in Aurora IL Oday Mariner Sea Pea
Is it maybe a Mac 22 your brother has? I don't think I ever heard of a Mac 21. I know they made a 17 with a swing keel that hangs below the hull like on a Cat. 22 and a 22 footer with a swing keel that comes all the way up into the hull. I looked at one and south coast 22. The 2 boats are very much alike both have 500 lb swing keels that work off a winch just inside the cabin. It's the 500 lbs that kept me from buying the SC 22. when alone I would have to leave the helm to winch up the keel so I can get back in the cove by my camp site. I know knit knit knit but I am so happy with the way my Mariner sails it's hard to find a boat to replace it. Rodger in Aurora IL Oday Mariner Sea Pea
A suggestion or two
The next step up from the Mariner are the 21-23 foot trailer sailers. I am not familiar with the P-19, but I can't imagine that any 19 footer has significantly more cabin space than a Mariner. The 21-23 footers are considerably heavier, more "difficult" to trailer and have a lot more cabin space. The big Kahuna of the class is the Catalina 22. A great boat with an active class association and support from the manufacturer. It also holds its value very well (you will probably get what you paid for it when you sell). A true "swing keel" boat where the ballast is contained in the swinging centerboard. If you intend to overnight on the boat a lot, look for a pop-top model. My favorite of the group is the Oday 23 (I own one). Ballast is encapsulated in a stub keel, and an unweighted centerboard withdraws completely into the stub keel. The Oday is heavier than the Catalina and requires a full size pick up to tow (about 3100# without the trailer weight). Other models to check out: the Oday 22, the San Juan 23. The Hunter line of trailer sailers might appeal; they are water-ballasted so they are easier to trailer.
The next step up from the Mariner are the 21-23 foot trailer sailers. I am not familiar with the P-19, but I can't imagine that any 19 footer has significantly more cabin space than a Mariner. The 21-23 footers are considerably heavier, more "difficult" to trailer and have a lot more cabin space. The big Kahuna of the class is the Catalina 22. A great boat with an active class association and support from the manufacturer. It also holds its value very well (you will probably get what you paid for it when you sell). A true "swing keel" boat where the ballast is contained in the swinging centerboard. If you intend to overnight on the boat a lot, look for a pop-top model. My favorite of the group is the Oday 23 (I own one). Ballast is encapsulated in a stub keel, and an unweighted centerboard withdraws completely into the stub keel. The Oday is heavier than the Catalina and requires a full size pick up to tow (about 3100# without the trailer weight). Other models to check out: the Oday 22, the San Juan 23. The Hunter line of trailer sailers might appeal; they are water-ballasted so they are easier to trailer.
Venture 21
I know the boat as the Venture 21, had a chance to buy one for $1,000 a fast little boat and it does have more cabin then my Mariner but you can not sit up in it with out hitting your head and I really want to at least have sitting head room if I'm going to trade boats. Rodger Aurora IL
I know the boat as the Venture 21, had a chance to buy one for $1,000 a fast little boat and it does have more cabin then my Mariner but you can not sit up in it with out hitting your head and I really want to at least have sitting head room if I'm going to trade boats. Rodger Aurora IL
"new" boat
I have a Starwind 22 built by Wellcraft which you might want to look at here in Peoria. Very solid boat and easy to single hand. They're offered now and again on eBay and I find them to be a good value.
I have a Starwind 22 built by Wellcraft which you might want to look at here in Peoria. Very solid boat and easy to single hand. They're offered now and again on eBay and I find them to be a good value.
Boats
Check out these sites, lot of boats for sale here: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com www.boatus.com www.ablboats.com www.boats.com www.sailboatlistings.com/
Check out these sites, lot of boats for sale here: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com www.boatus.com www.ablboats.com www.boats.com www.sailboatlistings.com/
starwind site
Jerry could you fill me in on your boat? Does the swing keel come all the way up into the hull? How heavey is the boat? Do you know of a good site where I can take a look at it? What I really want to do is take the boat to the lake 2 or 3 days before my wife comes with the camper. So I don't need anything to big just enough room for me to bachler it for a night or two. Or maybe you have soom photos you can e-mail me. @ pattijudine@aol.com
Jerry could you fill me in on your boat? Does the swing keel come all the way up into the hull? How heavey is the boat? Do you know of a good site where I can take a look at it? What I really want to do is take the boat to the lake 2 or 3 days before my wife comes with the camper. So I don't need anything to big just enough room for me to bachler it for a night or two. Or maybe you have soom photos you can e-mail me. @ pattijudine@aol.com
more Starwind info
I also have a Starwind 227. We upgraded from a Clipper Marine 21 (which we still have, anyone want a deal?) We also have a Hunter 37 Cutter (for sale also) and a Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman which we upgraded to. But I digress. The Starwind is probably one of the more roomy boats in this size range. There is no cabin trunk for the centerboard, it goes into the weighted keel, 22" draft up, about 6' down. There is good sitting room, and if you raise the large cabin top, it gives standing room for anyone in the main cabin. V-berth is good for two kids or maybe one adult, but the main cabin easily makes into a queen size bed. Good storage for the size boat, and sails quite well. It's difficult for one person to raise the mast unless you build a mast onto your trailer to help. With that and a pulley system it's not bad. It has a small portable water tank and a hand operated pump, which goes into the small sink. There is plenty of unused, not normally accessable room under the cockpit to add a water tank. There are no provisions for a stove, but we use a portable propane stove in the cockpit. There is a portapotty in the v-berth. Ours sailed pretty well as it was, but I just had a new fullbatten main made, much bigger than standard. Cold got us before we got to use it, but we'll find out next spring just how much it helps. It's a nice boat for 2 to spend several days at a time on. We paid $3500 for boat motor and trailer.
I also have a Starwind 227. We upgraded from a Clipper Marine 21 (which we still have, anyone want a deal?) We also have a Hunter 37 Cutter (for sale also) and a Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman which we upgraded to. But I digress. The Starwind is probably one of the more roomy boats in this size range. There is no cabin trunk for the centerboard, it goes into the weighted keel, 22" draft up, about 6' down. There is good sitting room, and if you raise the large cabin top, it gives standing room for anyone in the main cabin. V-berth is good for two kids or maybe one adult, but the main cabin easily makes into a queen size bed. Good storage for the size boat, and sails quite well. It's difficult for one person to raise the mast unless you build a mast onto your trailer to help. With that and a pulley system it's not bad. It has a small portable water tank and a hand operated pump, which goes into the small sink. There is plenty of unused, not normally accessable room under the cockpit to add a water tank. There are no provisions for a stove, but we use a portable propane stove in the cockpit. There is a portapotty in the v-berth. Ours sailed pretty well as it was, but I just had a new fullbatten main made, much bigger than standard. Cold got us before we got to use it, but we'll find out next spring just how much it helps. It's a nice boat for 2 to spend several days at a time on. We paid $3500 for boat motor and trailer.
Starwind 223 Pictures
Outrageous price, but some pictures: http://www.ablboats.com/details.asp?ListingID=69045 More pictures: http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=12758491&searchtype=buy&searchid=1&back=%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Flisting_search_results.jsp%3FSearch.x%3D73%26bdi%3Dtrue%26searchtype%3Dbuy%26payingBrandsOnly%3Dtrue%26sm%3D3%26toYear%3D2006%26luom%3D126%26sfm%3Dfalse%26Search.y%3D7%26man%3Dstarwind%26slim%3Dquick%26psdistance%3D500%26pszipcode%3DZip%26searchPage%3D%252Flisting%252Fcache%252Fquick_search.jsp%26detailed_view%3Dfalse&showDL=false&showMD=false More pictures: http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=11993751&searchtype=buy&searchid=1&back=%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Flisting_search_results.jsp%3FSearch.x%3D73%26bdi%3Dtrue%26searchtype%3Dbuy%26payingBrandsOnly%3Dtrue%26sm%3D3%26toYear%3D2006%26luom%3D126%26sfm%3Dfalse%26Search.y%3D7%26man%3Dstarwind%26slim%3Dquick%26psdistance%3D500%26pszipcode%3DZip%26searchPage%3D%252Flisting%252Fcache%252Fquick_search.jsp%26detailed_view%3Dfalse&showDL=false&showMD=false Yet more pictures: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1275849&checked_boats=1275849&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1313&url=
Outrageous price, but some pictures: http://www.ablboats.com/details.asp?ListingID=69045 More pictures: http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=12758491&searchtype=buy&searchid=1&back=%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Flisting_search_results.jsp%3FSearch.x%3D73%26bdi%3Dtrue%26searchtype%3Dbuy%26payingBrandsOnly%3Dtrue%26sm%3D3%26toYear%3D2006%26luom%3D126%26sfm%3Dfalse%26Search.y%3D7%26man%3Dstarwind%26slim%3Dquick%26psdistance%3D500%26pszipcode%3DZip%26searchPage%3D%252Flisting%252Fcache%252Fquick_search.jsp%26detailed_view%3Dfalse&showDL=false&showMD=false More pictures: http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=11993751&searchtype=buy&searchid=1&back=%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Flisting_search_results.jsp%3FSearch.x%3D73%26bdi%3Dtrue%26searchtype%3Dbuy%26payingBrandsOnly%3Dtrue%26sm%3D3%26toYear%3D2006%26luom%3D126%26sfm%3Dfalse%26Search.y%3D7%26man%3Dstarwind%26slim%3Dquick%26psdistance%3D500%26pszipcode%3DZip%26searchPage%3D%252Flisting%252Fcache%252Fquick_search.jsp%26detailed_view%3Dfalse&showDL=false&showMD=false Yet more pictures: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1275849&checked_boats=1275849&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1313&url=
Seaward?
I own a Mac 25 and sail on lakes, but would like to upgrade to something suitable for coastal cruising and heavy air. I will not be leaving my boat in the water so trailerability is a weekly consideration. I like the Mac for it's simplicity, but as well as a sturdier boat, I would like a bit more cabin. I have been looking at pix of the Seaward 26RK as a possible solution. It is a new boat and I've never seen one in person, let alone sail one. They appear well built, narrow enough to haul down the mountain and a lot roomier for their extra foot of length. Have any of you had a look at this boat?
I own a Mac 25 and sail on lakes, but would like to upgrade to something suitable for coastal cruising and heavy air. I will not be leaving my boat in the water so trailerability is a weekly consideration. I like the Mac for it's simplicity, but as well as a sturdier boat, I would like a bit more cabin. I have been looking at pix of the Seaward 26RK as a possible solution. It is a new boat and I've never seen one in person, let alone sail one. They appear well built, narrow enough to haul down the mountain and a lot roomier for their extra foot of length. Have any of you had a look at this boat?
Have not checked it out
but I have read a clip on a 30' trailerable Seaward. There is a (guessing) a 25' Seaward on Lake Authur and it has rigging suiteable for some heavy seas. r.w.landau
but I have read a clip on a 30' trailerable Seaward. There is a (guessing) a 25' Seaward on Lake Authur and it has rigging suiteable for some heavy seas. r.w.landau
Beam
8'-6" is the maximum beam for trailering in CA w/o a permit. That is my limiting factor. I moor next to my driveway which is about 1/2 way between Lake Tahoe and the SF Bay, with lots of lakes in between and I want to be able to dip my keel where I feel like any given weekend. I'm willing to get a bigger truck when I get a bigger boat, but I have to be able to launch from the trailer (shoal, swing or retractable keel)and trailer it at will (<8'-6" beam). The Seaward 32 is 10'-6" wide and the 26 is 8"-4", my Mac is a trim 7'-11".
8'-6" is the maximum beam for trailering in CA w/o a permit. That is my limiting factor. I moor next to my driveway which is about 1/2 way between Lake Tahoe and the SF Bay, with lots of lakes in between and I want to be able to dip my keel where I feel like any given weekend. I'm willing to get a bigger truck when I get a bigger boat, but I have to be able to launch from the trailer (shoal, swing or retractable keel)and trailer it at will (<8'-6" beam). The Seaward 32 is 10'-6" wide and the 26 is 8"-4", my Mac is a trim 7'-11".
Hunter 23.5 or newer 240
Nobody has mentioned the Hunter water ballast boats yet. They are not bybrids like the Mac 26x and 26m. The hunter 26 and 260 are similar in size to the Mac26, but there are also the smaller 23.5 and 240. I can put my 23.5 mast up and down by myself with ease. If you're interested, try to find one with stern rail seats. Towing weight of my 23.5 is around 3800 lbs when the outboard is on it. I launch and retrive easily with a 1991 Dodge Caravan. ...RickM...
Nobody has mentioned the Hunter water ballast boats yet. They are not bybrids like the Mac 26x and 26m. The hunter 26 and 260 are similar in size to the Mac26, but there are also the smaller 23.5 and 240. I can put my 23.5 mast up and down by myself with ease. If you're interested, try to find one with stern rail seats. Towing weight of my 23.5 is around 3800 lbs when the outboard is on it. I launch and retrive easily with a 1991 Dodge Caravan. ...RickM...
keel weight
The 23.5 sounds kind of nice what is the keel weight and how do you rase and lower it
The 23.5 sounds kind of nice what is the keel weight and how do you rase and lower it
catalina 25
http://www.catalina25-250.org/frameset.html look at this index!!! /www.trailnsail.com/selection%20guide.htm Precision 23 are nice.... Getting in or out of the larger mac's can be an issue, but the mast raising and launching are really well thought thru by the factory. its one of its best selling point. most mac owners can be sailing in under an hour from the time they arrive at the ramp. but towing a big boat can be tricky..... I go slow,
http://www.catalina25-250.org/frameset.html look at this index!!! /www.trailnsail.com/selection%20guide.htm Precision 23 are nice.... Getting in or out of the larger mac's can be an issue, but the mast raising and launching are really well thought thru by the factory. its one of its best selling point. most mac owners can be sailing in under an hour from the time they arrive at the ramp. but towing a big boat can be tricky..... I go slow,
New boat search
You might try to find a Chrysler C-22 or C-26. They have been out of production for a number of years, but I searched for about a year and found a C-22 that sails great. After a trial run we bought it and have been spending time in refurbish and refit. Check out the Chrysler Lizard site for available boats. Grover
You might try to find a Chrysler C-22 or C-26. They have been out of production for a number of years, but I searched for about a year and found a C-22 that sails great. After a trial run we bought it and have been spending time in refurbish and refit. Check out the Chrysler Lizard site for available boats. Grover
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