Newbee advice for marine head

[JeffC21331]

My new boat has a marine head with a 13 gallon holding tank. This is the first boat I have owned with a marine head, so I have a couple of questions. First, can anyone suggest any deodorizer that can be added to the head and holding tank. We noticed this weekend some smell coming out of the vent at the stern when the head was being flushed. Second, we have not yet had to pump out the head. On our lake there are only self serve type pump out stations at the marinas. Can someone give me some basic instructions on how to pump out the waste. The only ballcock valve my head has is the one that lets water into the head via the through hull fitting. Thanks for any constructive help you can provide.

 

[Rob2435]

questions

Back by the holding tank there should be a y valve that will redirect what's in the tank to the pump out line.

 

[Tony Z]

Basics

First of, you can't do better for a source of information than Peggie Hall's book on this website.Ok, you need to always pump out. Always. Do not wait till it gets full. When you get in at the end of your day, pump out. For the pum out process, make sure your vent is clear first. It's fairly straight forward. Remove the cover, insert the pick uptube and open the valve. Keep the seal tight and rinse everything down when done. I usually flush a tankfull of fresh water through the sytem to clear things up.Good luck.

 

[JeffC21331]

Thanks for the advice

Thanks, I just ordered Peggie Hall's book. It all seems simple enough. My boat, a new hunter 25, does not seem to have a y valve. I am assuming many smaller boats don't. If I keep the tank pumped out, should I need to add any treatment to the holding tank? If so, any particular kind?

 

[sailortonyb]

Dont Need a 'Y' Valve

Normally, the Y valve comes after the holding tank. One leg of the Y goes to the Deck Plate for deck discharge (pump out station) and the other leg goes to an overboard discharge. Since you are on a lake, you probably dont have an overboard discharge thru-hull fitting, therefore you dont have a Y valve.Read a West Marine catalog, they show the different options and explain the legalities.

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

Usually the Y valve is right after the head

The Y valve usually comes right after the head. This allows you to send the waste to either the holding tank, or to overboard thru-hull.After the holding tank, there is usually just a T. The waste goes either to a deck pump out fitting, or to a macerator, which is like a garabage disposal and it grinds up the waste and sends it overboard.By the way, I assume you already know that you should not let any waste go overboard unless you are outside of the no-discharge zone. Of course, when you are up in the back waters of Canada's west coast, you usually can't find a pumpout station anywhere. Many years ago, the 1st time I was up in Canada in an out of the way marina, I asked the dock master where is a pump out station, and he smiled and pointed to the big body of water right behind me.Happy sailing.

 

[sailortonyb]

Disagree with JC

I disagree with JC in that you may end up with a Coast Guard issue on the 'possibility of accidental discharge'. In a fair fight, they will win everytime.If your head goes straight into your holding tank first, you cannot accidentally discharge by flushing, so there is no issue. If you have your Y valve directly coming from your head, the possibility exists of accidental discharge if the Y valve is in the wrong position, therefore the thru-hull MUST be locked. Surely you could find the CG regs on the web somewhere. I'm too lazy to look them up. Matbe Peggy could tell you how to find the regs and then you can decide if you want to risk the fine.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Oh, for Pete's sake!

Boats in waters that provide immediate access to open sea beyond the "3 mile limit" often have a y-valve immediately after the toilet that provides a choice between flushing directly overboard or into the tank. If the SEACOCK is closed while inside 3 miles, the system is considered "secured from accidental discharge. This does require a little effort on the part of the owner to make sure the seacock is closed when it needs to be. At sea where the toilet can legally be flushed directly overboard, a system that offers no choice but to send it to the tank first can be a royal PITA, especially in foul weather...'cuz when the tank gets full, it has to be emptied before the toilet can be used again...and it's not always a good time to open the seacock and/or turn the valves to pump it out (no one with any sense would just leave 'em open all the time at sea!). While most production builders use a tee fitting in the tank pumpout line (because tee fittings cost a LOT less than y-valves), a y-valve is preferable because it allows the flow of waste from the tank to be cut off to service the macerator.As for where to find the regs...here: http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/40CFR/Docs/wcd00000/wcd0006d.aspand here: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=86d314715a20ea99670b2d5376c284ec&rgn=div5&view=text&node=33:2.0.1.5.27&idno=33And when your copy of my book arrives, you'll also find 'em summarized in the chapter "What's Legal, What's Not." Thanks for ordering it!

 

[SailingSue]

No Y-Valve

We have a 2003 Hunter 44DS and we don't have a Y valve that I can find. I think the new boats aren't equipped with a Y valve any more. Think so?

 

[sailortonyb]

Way too complicated

Let me see, opening and closing the 'Y' valve every time you use the head in rough weather is less of a PITA then on the rare occasion to empty the tank? Why would you want to open and close the valve every time? Because..(no one with any sense would just leave 'em open all the time at sea!). Well, in heavy weather, i guess you can just use the holding tank, but you really dont want to do that because..'cuz when the tank gets full, it has to be emptied before the toilet can be used again.I guess i'm too confused, LOL

 

[sailortonyb]

What to believe or interpret

For what its worth, i found this excerpt on a US Coast Guard Boating Safety site.'When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited the operator must secure the device in a manner which prevents any discharge. Some acceptable methods are: padlocking overboard discharge valves in the closed position, using non releasable wire tie to hold overboard discharge valves in the closed position, closing overboard discharge valves and removing the handle, locking the door, with padlock or keylock, to the space enclosing the toilets (for Type I and Type II only).'Check out the link below

 

[sailortonyb]

oops, link didnt work

Maybe this link will work

 

[sailortonyb]

Soooooooooooo

Do you think reply #10 is easier than going into a HOLDING TANK?Actually Im not sure on how to interpret any of this, but i certainly dont want to have to argue with the CG on which is right or wrong or whatever. Anyway, my personal choice was to go to a holding tank first and not have to worry.

 

[Nice N Easy]

Y valves and sailing

Those of you who have done much offshore, or rough weather sailing should know better. Worrying about opening a valve, or closing a valve, in rough seas is much more of a PITA than I want to deal with. Not to mention getting caught by the coasties with the valve in the wrong position. Once they get on board the boat, it's too late to change it. So, put the head directly into the tank, and the Y valve behind it.

 

[Nice N Easy]

Y valves

IF you sail on a lake, you probably don't need a Y valve at all. Just a holding tank hooked up to a pump out fitting. But I don't sail on lakes

 

[Tom S]

A picture is worth a 1000 words from West Marine

Go here and you can see all sorts of configurations that are used for MSD (Marine Sanitation Devices -- better known as your head and holding tank system, etc)http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/sanitationsystem.htmPersonally I agree with the West Marine advisor that "fovorite Option is the best. (FYI- item 10 can be a macerator) If the thru-hull valve is in a fairly easy to reach place (as any decently designed boat should be) then its really not too hard to open the outlet of the holding tank and flick the switch on the macerator for a few minutes if the holding tank starts to get a little full. Too many DoDo's get lazy and just leave a y-valve after the head open and never use thier holding tanks...the method above forces you to at least use the holding tank and you have to consciously (sp?) empty the holding tank and more likely it will be at the ~appropriate~ time.PS. If you haven't figured it out yet - You should ~never~ pump out into a lake (unless I guess its the size of an ocean)

 

[sailortonyb]

Tom s. ....Thanks

I thought I was imagining this because I couldnt find the article. Anyway, you can plumb your head anyway you want to because you are the one to pay the fine, which I believe is around $500. And remember, you dont have to actually discharge to get a citation, you only have to have to ability to do it accidentally, thus the term..."accidental discharge"

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

I would still put the Y valve after the head

I installed a Y valve right after the head when I bought the boat new. Then I use a plastic wire tie to make sure it is closed and no one will accidently discharge overboard. When I head out over 3 miles, or way up north into Canada, where I can no longer have access to a pumpout, I cut the plastic wire tie and leave it that way. When I come back within 3 miles, I put another plastic wire tie to secure it closed. It is not something you do 10 times a day. It is usually only once per cruise.I just don't understand how that can be too complicated or confusing. It seems pretty simple to me.By the way, if you have the waste go straight into the tank, and if you are 3 miles out and have no access to a pumpout, and a broken macerator, so there is no way to empty the tank, well, you are now really up the s*** creek.I have been sailing this way all my life. I have been boarded by the CG and passed inspection, I have been inspected by CG numerous times since our US Power Squadron and the local CG Aux have get togethers every so often. It is the only way to go.You can plumb you head anyway you wish. Live & learn.Happy sailing.