New Hyde Sails... How they Fit

[CloudDiver]

So those of you who have followed my resto-thread know that I got new sails a couple years ago (way too early in the resto process) from a questionable on-line loft that is no longer allowed to be named on this forum... The problem was I ordered Challenge Warp 6 sailcloth and what I got was plain Dacron.
Anyway, @DrJudyB from Hyde Sails stepped in and helped resolve the issue. I ended up with a new Main, Class Jib, and Class Genoa from Hyde Sails and they are def the right sail cloth!
So after finally getting my mast and rigging set-back up with new internal Halyards and a Harken Small Boat furler I got to work hoisting the sails to see how they fit.
Note: You will see I am having a few issues with the Genoa below. Please note these are probably 'growing pains' and should not reflect poorly on Hyde Sails. The sails are amazing so far and @DrJudyB will probably post on this thread to let me know how to resolve this. I will also email her if she's not watching the forum.

So here we go!

 

[CloudDiver]

First, The Main... Just perfect. I may not have the boom height set just correct yet. I'm using the lower band mark (3' 6" up from the bottom of the mast step) that is designated in C22 Class rules. No issues with the hoist, foot meets Class measurement specs. My outhaul is temp rigged (fixed) and not functional yet so the foot is not very tight but it is clear I have the room to pull it tight. I also don't have a boom down-haul or the boom-vang rigged yet. Looks impressive!

 

[CloudDiver]

Class Jib (120), the specs of this sail are listed in the C22 class rules. I measured the foot and it is within spec. I have not measured the luff or leech but I'm pretty sure they are spot on. I have the furler base pined directly to my modified stem fitting with no tangs or riser. The modification is an extra length of tang on the aft end of the fitting giving me a 5/16" hole much further aft, keeping the drum clear of and perpendicular to the forestay. As you can see I reached max hoist well short of the masthead, and this is good. I can add a pigtail or something to the Jib Tack to keep the foot clear of the bow pulpit and life-lines... BUT, having the foot as close to the deck as possible is an aerodynamic advantage (as I understand). As it is, I don't think its too bad as it sits, I would have to see how it tacks in this position before I add something to raise the tack 8 to 12 inches. The drum needs to stay as close to the deck as possible for the Genoa, and you will see why shortly.

 

[CloudDiver]

Still plenty of hoist room...

 

[CloudDiver]

Furling Drum on deck...

 

[CloudDiver]

Now to the Class Genoa. This sail only has two measurements, Luff and L.P.
The L.P. is not the foot, its a little more complicated; read for yourself in the C22 Class rules here; https://www.catalina22.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39&Itemid=25

So the short story is this... I can't get the luff tight on this sail because I am out of hoist room. I have not been able to fully measure the dimensions of the sail because I need a place bigger than my living room floor and a buddy to help pull the sail firm and hold the tape. So Right now I can't say that the Luff or L.P. is too long. Dr Judy B will have to tell me how to remedy this. I'm pretty sure the loft assumed I would be using the wire luff in this sail as the forestay itself, so it may measure out to that length or close to it. You have to take in to account that the luff of my sail actually resides about 4 inches aft of the forestay and you have to subtract the length of the upper-swivel and the drum from the distance you have to hoist. Anyway, without further postulating, I'll need professional advice to fix this one and hopefully I won't screw up my Class Genoa!

 

[CloudDiver]

Here is the swivel topped right out... See how the arm of the swivel sticks out in front of the forestay? That happens as the swivel gets close to the top and is physically closer to the forestay. This will cause the sail to wrap on the forestay. To keep the swivel back off the forestay I will use a halyard retained a few inches below the masthead, but this will actually reduce my max hoist even more...

 

[CloudDiver]

As a comparison, here is a North Sails 3DL Genoa I bought used from a member of the FB C22 group (sorry Judy! its was only $400! If this one does not meet Class rules I'm not going to change it to do that, I'll just make it work as a back up... or I might just re-sell it, LOL). He listed it as a 150, but I have not gotten measurements yet. My eye-balls tell me its seems to be the same dimensions as the Class Genoa, seem correct? I have the same issues with this sail, can't get to max hoist... This sail is also hank on, it does not have a wire luff yet.

 

[CloudDiver]

 

[CloudDiver]

So I have the mast back down this weekend to install the electrical conduit and fix my halyards (I installed them backwards!). I put the red line on the left, green on the right... It really makes no diff whatsoever on the halyards, but its killing my OCD! I should have used purple and yellow for halyards and then it wouldn't matter at all!
Anyways, thats about it until I get the mast back up with the halyards swapped, halyard retained installed, lights on, Vang installed, etc...

 

[greg_m]

That boat is really looking smart... hope I can achieve nearly as good a finish as you have! Well done...

 

[rpludwig]

Luke, very nice...

Helped (more like watched) a fellow C22'r and a loft guy install a roller furling & sail on his boat just last week. The first thing the loft guy did before we stepped the mast was to install (rivet) a halyard retainer a bit below the masthead to address the issue you mention. Think it was 6-8" or so, apparently a common issue/fix....fwiw...

 

[Will Gilmore]

Liked your post. I just bought a used mariner 19 last year, just before Winter. The main was so bad the seller knocked $500 of the price of $1500. My research brought me to Hydesailsdirect for price and reviews. When I first talked to Judy on the phone I hadn't yet bought the boat and she gave me some great advice about making sure the cb would drop, how to tap the hull for hollow spots, etc. I really appreciated her help. Never having bought sails before I had no doubts after talking with her on the phone that I was going to get a great product made by people who knew what they were doing. Since last Winter, I have become a chicken farmer and spent all this Summer building their coop and learning about chickens, surviving bear attacks on my new charges and haven't even gotten the cb back in Dragonfly. Judy's sail is still in the bag. I'm happy to actually see that my expectations of quality from her are well founded. I hope to have as much fun next Summer with Dragonfly and her new main as you obviously will with your boat.
- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Ron20324]

... I have become a chicken farmer ... surviving bear attacks...

Maybe the bears would make great "rail meat"?

 

[Will Gilmore]

Maybe the bears would make great "rail meat"?

When I meet him, I'll see if I cam find out. For now, the electric fence is doing it's job.
- Will

 

[LakeShark]

Did you ask for the clue on the head sails be cut high? Perhapse it's just the way it's rigged but they look way high compaired to other c22 pictures I have seen. Nice tri radial design though and the high clue will certainly increase visibility. What cloth did you go with?

 

[$tingy Sailor]

Luke,
Did you test your furler a few times? I recently added a similar (vintage Schaefer) furler to my boat and I don't have a problem with the halyard wrapping the forestay yet. You might not need a restrainer after all.

Also, I wonder if the C-22 class spec for the 150 presumes no furler is installed. My 150 is cut shorter and wider with room to hoist.

 

[CloudDiver]

Luke, very nice...

Helped (more like watched) a fellow C22'r and a loft guy install a roller furling & sail on his boat just last week. The first thing the loft guy did before we stepped the mast was to install (rivet) a halyard retainer a bit below the masthead to address the issue you mention. Think it was 6-8" or so, apparently a common issue/fix....fwiw...

Yup, just installed mine last night 6 inches below the mast-head... I hope I got it right. The way I measure was half science and half-guess work. Worst case I can drill the rivets and lower or raise it as needed.

 

[CloudDiver]

Luke,
Did you test your furler a few times? I recently added a similar (vintage Schaefer) furler to my boat and I don't have a problem with the halyard wrapping the forestay yet. You might not need a restrainer after all.

Also, I wonder if the C-22 class spec for the 150 presumes no furler is installed. My 150 is cut shorter and wider with room to hoist.

On the Class Jib it worked perfect because I could pull the luff tight. The new Halyard retained I just put on will help even more, but until I can get the luff sorted out on the Genoa it does not work so well yet.

 

[CloudDiver]

Did you ask for the clue on the head sails be cut high? Perhapse it's just the way it's rigged but they look way high compaired to other c22 pictures I have seen. Nice tri radial design though and the high clue will certainly increase visibility. What cloth did you go with?

The cloth is Challenge Warp 6. My genoa is not tri-radial and might be a lighter cloth, I will have to verify. I did not request a high clew... I didn't know any better at the time. When I get things sorted out and discuss with Judy B I will let you guys know what steps I had to take to re-cut the Genoa. If the 3DL matches the specs of my Class Genoa I will proabably sell it rather that re-cut it, not sure yet.