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New 26D owner

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Matros

.
Dec 7, 2012
26
Hello Everyone!

I have recently purchased my first sailboat from MacNCheese (a member here) and have learned an insane amount of information about sailing and fixing sailboats.

As some of you know, this Mac really needs some love and money invested into it to get it back out on the water. Since the winter has moved into New England, I'm not doing a whole lot on her right now other then what I've already done. Washed her inside and out, vacuumed out all the dirt and water out of the cabin and sump (and the huge Florida cockroaches which apparently hitched a ride up to MA)

Now I have her all wrapped up in a huge new tarp (draped over a basic 2x4 frame I built) ready for the next few months until spring.

I'm currently working on a budget and schedule for the work I plan to do on her as soon as the spring comes around. And I'm also fixing up the old 1986 Mariner 2-stroke I bought with the boat.

I do have a few questions. The PO had bought a Hobie 18 Mast and Boom to use with this boat. I know the mast is almost identical to the original 26D but I think the boom may be a few feet shorter on the Hobie. I need to buy a new Main Sail and a new Head Sail and i'm wondering if I should go with sails for a Mac or a Hobie. If any of you have any ideas about this I'd appreciate it.

Again thank you all for your very informative forum and I'm very happy to be a new member of it.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Welcome aboard !!! Of course you have to be a little more careful with mentioning the PO than the rest of us do ;)

I would focus on getting the proper boom and go with the Mac sails. I say that line I am an expert with my shorter mast that requires I use clipper marine main sails and Mac head sails. I guess I would rather have all that more sail at the bottom where it counts. Come to think of it, I think my boom and the Mac boom are the same roughly 10'

I guess the upside would be more headroom in more of the cockpit.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
queue Oleander1.2.3......


personally I would think mac sails, or at least the head sail. H18 had small jib's. not sure on the smaller full batten main. (can you reef that?)
 
Nov 23, 2011
1,999
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
This link may help with the boom/ sail sizing. sailboatdata.com
Welcome and good luck.
 

Matros

.
Dec 7, 2012
26
Thank you all for your responses!

I'm currently talking to Judy B regarding my sail options and will let you guys know what I decide on. I have read about a few people using the shorter Hobie boom and hobie sized main sail without any issues. I definitely plan on going with at least a 135% genoa for the head sail ether way though....maybe 150%.

But of course, it would probably be nice to have the 10.5' boom the 26d originally came with and the larger main sail .....hmmmmm
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
. I definitely plan on going with at least a 135% genoa for the head sail ether way though....maybe 150%..
If you are in an area with really light winds then I might consider the 150 otherwise I'd stay with a 135. Ours is a 135 and plenty big for us. Remember that you can't just furl a 150 down to a 100 and have good sail shape. I think furling down 10% to 15% is about max if you want to keep good shape.

I'd respect Judy's recommendations here though over mine ;),

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 

Kestle

.
Jun 12, 2011
702
MacGregor 25 San Pedro
I'm with Sum...skip the 150 and go with a 135. I regret buying the 150, instead of a asymmetric chute.

Jeff
 
Dec 28, 2011
193
MacGregor 26D Boston
Welcome Matros!

I can only suggest someone who had to make that same decision, RightOn! (and you probably already read his thread). RightOn! decided to keep using the Hobie Boom because he believed that it improved the Mac 26D weatherhelm issues. To compensate for the sail area lost on the main, he added 3 feet of luff length to the jib by switching to a 7/8ths rig (Mac's usually run a 3/4ths rig).

His choice of rig and boom was proven because he went on to win many races againt boats that he should not have beat.
Here's what he said:

one of the only misfortunes of owning a D or S model is the terrible weather helm built in to the boat. The D is probably worse than the S because of the location of the dagger board vs. the center board.
The D for example: the dagger board trunk acts as the mast support so that the coach house doesn't cave in when the mast is pushing down such severe loads when the boat is heeling...problem with dagger board trunk being the mast support is...is that it puts the dagger's center of effort too far forward..or..the sail plan too far back, however you want to look at it. Basically, the rig loads the rudder heavily which causes the boat to round up rather easily.. and the closer hauled the worse of course. What does not help this issue is that the stock Mac rudder doesn't offer enough authority to really control the situation sometimes...thats where you round up in to the wind and not to mention that you bleed speed holding in excessive "weather helm" everywhere you sail. The Mac rudder is not an efficient foil type nor is ther enough area to deal with the excesive loads delivered directly to it by the sail plan...IMHO

The fact that I use a stock hobie mast AND boom means that my new boom is almost exactly two feet shorter than the stocker which theoretically helps to unload the rudder.
Also, I added three more feet in luff length to the jib which puts more effort in front of the dagger board(went to 7/8ths rig vs. 3/4) which helps also. My mast rotates too, which moves the effort of the main alone forward some...that...combined with my home made mk2 rudder that is 6" inches deeper and a cord that is 1" longer, and a shape that is a true NACA 0012 foil that is higher in lift and lower in drag, really helps... and all these little adjustments combined, means that i sail around now with much less over compensated "weather helm", and let me tell you that I am thrilled with the results! the boat sails absolutley beautifully.
and let me tell ya that I'm so happy that my OCD finally came in to play in the last year that I've been working on this thing
His thread is here: http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=142896
 
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Matros

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Dec 7, 2012
26
Thanks guys for all your help!

I tried to get in touch with Right on! But haven't heard from him.

Since he stayed with Hobie 18 boom and mast does anyone know what size sails he ended up getting?

Does getting the larger head sail to compensate for the smaller main have any negative effects?
 
Dec 28, 2011
193
MacGregor 26D Boston
I tried to get in touch with Right on! But haven't heard from him.
Since he stayed with Hobie 18 boom and mast does anyone know what size sails he ended up getting?
Does getting the larger head sail to compensate for the smaller main have any negative effects?
"Right On!'s" name is Wes and his last name is either "Right" or "Rite" (but I think its "Right", which explains his username). He lives in Redding California so you might be able to find him in the phone book.

But the man to talk to is Chip Buck, Owner of Whirlwind sails of San Diego, CA. Chip made Wes's sails and can answer most of your questions. I spoke with Chip on Sunday night (12/15) and let him know you might be getting in touch with him and he said if you email him asking for Wes's email, he will be able to provide that to you. Find Chip at http://whirlwindsails.com/wordpress/ and via phone: 619 222 2227

Chip said that Wes was 100% correct, moving the sail load forward by reducing the boom length (Hobie boom is 2' shorter) will greatly reduce the MacGregor's weatherhelm issues, and makes the boat less likely to round up. This same concept was also confirmed to me by another sail maker, Carl of Slo Sails, who said moving the sails forward unloads the rudder.

Chip said that Wes's main sail is almost the same as a standard Hobie 18 except that the leach length is increased. He can help you figure out the dimensions of Wes's sails. Chip explained that the reason your not losing power by switching to a Hobie main sail is because the stock Mac sail was a pin head main and your switching to a square mast roach sail (I don't know what that means but Chip assures me that your not giving up any power, only gaining performance.) Chip said switching to the 7/8 rig jib is a must. Basically a 3/4 jib (stock Mac Jib) goes up 3/4 of the way up the mast. a 7/8 Jib goes up almost to the top giving you more sail area and more power.

One option is to make things simple by ordering the same sails Chip made for Wes. They are performance/racing sails so it may also be possible to pay less by choosing less expensive materials. The prices Wes paid were approximately:
1) The same main sail Wes had for about $950 (with UV protection)
2) You might not need new batons. Ask Chip if you can save some money by re-using your Hobie 18 batons. If you do need them, they are an additional $250 in total.
3) The Jib Wes has for about $600.
Essentially, Wes's sails are custom made Hobie X2 sails from this link: http://www.whirlwindsails.com/wordpress/sails/x2/

If you do follow Right On!'s path, Chip asks if you would be willing to write up your demesnions and methods in a tutorial so that the next person to make this mod can follow in your footsteps.

Rigging
Wes bought his Forestay from Ed of Sailing Supply
of Sand Diego, Ca. Call Ed at: (619) 225-9411
Ed said that if you can find out Wes's last name (It's either Right, or Rite), he may be able to look up the work order and find you the length of the forestay. Wes told us that the diameter of the forestay was 3/16th inch. Chip (Whirlwind sails) said if you can find out the dimensions of the forestay, it will be easy to figure out the rest of the dimensions for the rigging. He can help you.
Keep in mind, Wes raised his forestay tang by 3 feet so that will affect the length of his forestay.

Wes sent me a private message that I pasted below so you can learn a little more about what he did:

Hi Bryant,
I didn't use the stock H18 because i raised the forestay tang 3 feet...so i ordered new standing rigging from 'Sailing Supply' in San Diego, including a new forestay in 3/16". I did this to help balance the boat and help "unload" the rudder. So naturally i had to have a custom jib made for the "new" triangle shape. I also used the H18 boom instead of the stock boom. its shorter by 2 foot. Even in heavier air the boat excellerates instead of rounding up in to the wind when there is a puff...it works killer.

The sails have full battens in the main and diagonal battons in jib for furling, has self tacking jib system with curved track and all. I bought all New standing rigging and new CDI furler, all new line including the new 7:1 main sheet system..the traveler is not new but all Harken, new jib sheets and spin halyard, new boom kicker with new 8:1 boom vang. New harken 8:1 cunning. I added some internal halyards in the mast. My boat now has a spinnaker and pole and sheets for spin handling. New 8:1 running backs blocks and wire. New wind vane. instantly adjustable outhaul and mast rotation control with rotation arm.

I purchased a new harken and Ronstan hardware. I'm gonna complete the pop-top mod before it goes. it is truly one of a kind. I get compliments on the boat out at the lake, at the dock and out on the water, at gas stations and from people that don't even sail, every time i take it anywhere...it is beautiful. It looks like a sport boat and sails like one too! The high performance mods are not for every one, but some one will fall in love with it.
Let me know if I can be of any other help :)
 
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Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I'd like to throw something out there. If you are going to keep the boat and want to make it your boat then maybe do all of this modifing. If you think you might be selling the boat a few years down the road then maybe keep the sails as stock in shape/size as possible.

A potential buyer might be put off if they thought that buying sails in the future might turn into a complicated mess.

We bought a new main and a genoa from Somerset Sails and all that he need to know was that it was a Mac and which genoa did we want. Also you can buy ready made sails for Macs from a number of places. Just tell them which model you have.

We have the Ida Sailor (Ruddercraft) rudder and have no weatherhelm problems. It is a good place to put the money if you have it.

In the end you have to do what you feel will work the best for you so feel free to let the above be just one persons thoughts ;),

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Dec 28, 2011
193
MacGregor 26D Boston
If you think you might be selling the boat a few years down the road then maybe keep the sails as stock as possible
Keep in mind, Matros does not have the stock MacGregor mast, or boom, or sails, or batons, or rigging. He only has the Hobie 18 mast, boom, sails, batons, and some Hobie rigging that might work (new sidestays needed for sure)

He can spend his money on sails that fit his Hobie boom, or he can spend that money buying a stock MacGregor boom & stock rigging, and then he'll still need to buy stock sails & stock batons ontop of that.

In my humble opinion, he'll spend less and get more performance if he sticks with the Hobie 18 boom.
 
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Matros

.
Dec 7, 2012
26
Thank you guys for all your thoughtful input. As of today I plan on keeping this boat for a while. After all this work that I'll be putting into it I don't know how I'm ever going to be able to part with her.

I'm going to contact whirlwindsails and see what they have to say. I'm very excited to get the rigging and sails out of the way and get her out on the water as soon as it warms up.

With the square-head sail, wont there be an issue of rubbing against the back stay? How would I get around that?
 
Nov 23, 2011
1,999
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
Back stay flicker. I saw an ad on the sailing anarchy site but they just changed the site and I don't see it now... Google..
Or rig so you don't use a back stay. This will take a bunch of work. Ie moving the side stays back more and adjusting stay length's, etc.
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Seems like a lot of work, why not just but a backstay crane on?

I swiped this pic but you get the idea

I think I have one of these from the original Mac mast I have if you are interested.
 

Attachments

Nov 23, 2011
1,999
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
That's the idea Doc. But it would have to be longer to get around the flat top of the sail.
That's why I said back stay flicker. It is flexable and if he goes with a rotating mast shouldn't cause much problem as it will twist a bit.
I don't think a flicker would be too hard to build yourself.
 
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