Hello, After a couple hours motoring for the first time since I bought the boat in Dec, I noticed my stuffing box is dripping excessively- 20 drops/min with the engine OFF! I've learned that according to the CG, you are taking on water anything over 10 drops/min regardless of in gear or not. Luckily, I'm at a dock until this weekend, but I will be on a mooring ball once I finish moving the boat to its new home. Has anyone had experience with changing the packing with the boat in the water? I read that some people have done this and there is a way to slow the water ingress with taping a plastic bag over the shaft. What are the best tools to use for the job? What tools are used to pick out the old stuffing? I'm praying that once I am able to break the retaining nut loose, I should be able to tighten the packing down a little and hopefully it will stop. I've read online that you pull the wrenches toward each other to loosen so I'm assuming that the threading turns clockwise as you are facing the stern. So should I turn the packing nut to the left and the lock nut to the right facing the stern? I may have been trying to loosen them the wrong way last weekend. Any advice/ suggestions would be greatly welcome. Changing the stuffing doesn't seem like rocket science, but this will be my first time if I can't tighten it any further and I would need to do it with the boat in the water. Thanks.
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Packing
I just replaced the packing on my boat and, given the difficulties I encountered while removing the old packing, do not suggest doing the job in the water. At least, not on the first time. There were washers between the packing rings and they were very difficult to remove. While I am sure replacing the packing while the boat is in the water is possible and know it is done quite often, I would not want to chance running into a problem in the middle of the project and needing to take some action that might not be possible with the replacement process in an incomplete, and possible non-reversible, state. For the record, I intend to replace the stuffing box with a pss seal when I haul the boat next fall. I found the replacement process quite difficult and time consuming.
I just replaced the packing on my boat and, given the difficulties I encountered while removing the old packing, do not suggest doing the job in the water. At least, not on the first time. There were washers between the packing rings and they were very difficult to remove. While I am sure replacing the packing while the boat is in the water is possible and know it is done quite often, I would not want to chance running into a problem in the middle of the project and needing to take some action that might not be possible with the replacement process in an incomplete, and possible non-reversible, state. For the record, I intend to replace the stuffing box with a pss seal when I haul the boat next fall. I found the replacement process quite difficult and time consuming.
Hi Tim, before you go to the trouble of ...
replacing the packing try to tighten the box nut a few flats by hand to see whether this will stop or reduce the drip to an acceptable rate...no drips at rest, about six to ten per minute with the shaft spinning. If I remember, righty tighty, lefty loosy. The best tools that worked for the tight quarters on our boat were service wrenches. These resemble a standard open end wrench, but with the jaws tilted and on one end only. I could not get pipe wrenches to work on ours. Squirt on some Liquid Wrench, let set for an hour, tap with a hammer and the lock nut should break right loose. I used the teflon soaked flax on ours five years ago. It is time to retighten. Terry
replacing the packing try to tighten the box nut a few flats by hand to see whether this will stop or reduce the drip to an acceptable rate...no drips at rest, about six to ten per minute with the shaft spinning. If I remember, righty tighty, lefty loosy. The best tools that worked for the tight quarters on our boat were service wrenches. These resemble a standard open end wrench, but with the jaws tilted and on one end only. I could not get pipe wrenches to work on ours. Squirt on some Liquid Wrench, let set for an hour, tap with a hammer and the lock nut should break right loose. I used the teflon soaked flax on ours five years ago. It is time to retighten. Terry
You did not say what type of boat you have
but that is only a minor detail. First of all, do not panic. This is not the most difficult thing to fix and is normal 5 - 10 year required maintenance. Depending on the boat you will need to get some new packing material for the stuffing box but you need to know what size packing to get which only an owner of your kind of boat could tell you (eg., 1/4, 3/8, 1/2" thick). I have had a good experience with Gore Tex packing and find it to be virtually dripless. http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html You can repack the stuffing box while still in the water but it is certainly easier to do on the hard. I found this link on the subject which discusses ways of doing this while on the water http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm I had to spray PB Blaster on my packing nuts a day or so before removing them. I also purchased several sizes of packing 3/16' to 5/16' and ended up using the 1/4" size for my stuffing box. You will need 2 good sized wrenches, something like a drywall screw or corkscrew for extracting the old packing and an arsenal of swear words as this equipment is often in a very awkward spot to reach. If you need some time to gather the equipment and your wits before doing this job you can hook up an automatic float sensor switch for your bilge pump if you do not have one already. That will keep the boat afloat as long as your batteries are up to the job. You will feel a lot better once you have repacked the gland though. Good luck.
but that is only a minor detail. First of all, do not panic. This is not the most difficult thing to fix and is normal 5 - 10 year required maintenance. Depending on the boat you will need to get some new packing material for the stuffing box but you need to know what size packing to get which only an owner of your kind of boat could tell you (eg., 1/4, 3/8, 1/2" thick). I have had a good experience with Gore Tex packing and find it to be virtually dripless. http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html You can repack the stuffing box while still in the water but it is certainly easier to do on the hard. I found this link on the subject which discusses ways of doing this while on the water http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm I had to spray PB Blaster on my packing nuts a day or so before removing them. I also purchased several sizes of packing 3/16' to 5/16' and ended up using the 1/4" size for my stuffing box. You will need 2 good sized wrenches, something like a drywall screw or corkscrew for extracting the old packing and an arsenal of swear words as this equipment is often in a very awkward spot to reach. If you need some time to gather the equipment and your wits before doing this job you can hook up an automatic float sensor switch for your bilge pump if you do not have one already. That will keep the boat afloat as long as your batteries are up to the job. You will feel a lot better once you have repacked the gland though. Good luck.
I Agree
I would first try tighting the packing nut a little at a time until the drip stops while the shaft is at rest, than wait until back on the hard to put in new packing. Nick
I would first try tighting the packing nut a little at a time until the drip stops while the shaft is at rest, than wait until back on the hard to put in new packing. Nick
Probably just needs to be tightened
a quarter turn or so should do it. Try that first before repacking. It's quite normal to have to tighten the box every now and then.
a quarter turn or so should do it. Try that first before repacking. It's quite normal to have to tighten the box every now and then.
There are a lot
of different kinds of stuffing boxes/packing glands. A lot of Hunters, for example, came with white nylon glands in which the forward most compression nut pushed the packing material aft into the gland. These are very hard to repack in the water as they have a number of compression rings inside the gland itself and it pretty much requires pulling out the shaft to get to the old material and repack it. Many conventional bronze glands have the packing material inside the forward nut itself, making replacing the material a bit easier. It is somewhat more doable to replace the packing material in these kinds of glands by backing off the lock nut (turn it counter clockwise), backing off the gland nut (turn clockwise) and replacing the packing. If I were going to do this with the boat in the water, I'd get ready by: measuring your shaft and cutting the rings of new packing material first; using tape or rags around the shaft to lessen the flow of water into your boat when you back off the gland nuts; having a pick or other tool ready to get the old packing out as soon as the nut is loose; and by not dallying.... Have a plan to get everything back together quickly if that should be necessary. Having said all this (phew...), I agree with all the other posters that I'd first start by trying to tighten up the packing nut first. Loosen the lock nut (by whatever means you need; PB Blaster helps; as does tapping with a ball peen hammer), then tighten the packing nut until you have just about no drips with the engine off. Hand tighten the lock nut, start the engine, and put it in gear. With your hands clear, take a look at how much dripping you now have. One or two drops per minute would be the ideal. Then tighten the lock nut. An easy way to remember which way to turn the nuts on the packing gland is to take a quarter inch bolt(any size will do) and screw two nuts onto the end. Bingo. You now have replicated how the nuts on the packing gland work. Don't forget to check the gland each time you sail after adjusting it. Also, a boat that has been out of the water and just launched may require some time/use for the packing material to saturate and make a good seal. You may have to adjust it again. Good luck with this.
of different kinds of stuffing boxes/packing glands. A lot of Hunters, for example, came with white nylon glands in which the forward most compression nut pushed the packing material aft into the gland. These are very hard to repack in the water as they have a number of compression rings inside the gland itself and it pretty much requires pulling out the shaft to get to the old material and repack it. Many conventional bronze glands have the packing material inside the forward nut itself, making replacing the material a bit easier. It is somewhat more doable to replace the packing material in these kinds of glands by backing off the lock nut (turn it counter clockwise), backing off the gland nut (turn clockwise) and replacing the packing. If I were going to do this with the boat in the water, I'd get ready by: measuring your shaft and cutting the rings of new packing material first; using tape or rags around the shaft to lessen the flow of water into your boat when you back off the gland nuts; having a pick or other tool ready to get the old packing out as soon as the nut is loose; and by not dallying.... Have a plan to get everything back together quickly if that should be necessary. Having said all this (phew...), I agree with all the other posters that I'd first start by trying to tighten up the packing nut first. Loosen the lock nut (by whatever means you need; PB Blaster helps; as does tapping with a ball peen hammer), then tighten the packing nut until you have just about no drips with the engine off. Hand tighten the lock nut, start the engine, and put it in gear. With your hands clear, take a look at how much dripping you now have. One or two drops per minute would be the ideal. Then tighten the lock nut. An easy way to remember which way to turn the nuts on the packing gland is to take a quarter inch bolt(any size will do) and screw two nuts onto the end. Bingo. You now have replicated how the nuts on the packing gland work. Don't forget to check the gland each time you sail after adjusting it. Also, a boat that has been out of the water and just launched may require some time/use for the packing material to saturate and make a good seal. You may have to adjust it again. Good luck with this.
pick out the old stuffing
I used a small set of cheap hooks I got from a auto parts store to prey out the packing bands. They I used a pair of forcepts to grab the packing and pull it out enough to get my finger on it. They I could pull it out. Find out if you can how many rings of old packing and what size it is. OH YEAH, try to tighten the packing gland up first. I used this tool with two pipe extension to get the locking and packing nut off. http://www.mahallmarketing.com/adjust_eze.html
I used a small set of cheap hooks I got from a auto parts store to prey out the packing bands. They I used a pair of forcepts to grab the packing and pull it out enough to get my finger on it. They I could pull it out. Find out if you can how many rings of old packing and what size it is. OH YEAH, try to tighten the packing gland up first. I used this tool with two pipe extension to get the locking and packing nut off. http://www.mahallmarketing.com/adjust_eze.html
This article may help..
I wrote this last week and figured it may help someone better understand the inner workings of, and changing the packing, in a traditional stuffing box. Here's the link: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box
I wrote this last week and figured it may help someone better understand the inner workings of, and changing the packing, in a traditional stuffing box. Here's the link: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box
Nice website Mainsail, or is it Tom?
Nice pics of Maine and you have got to love the dogs! Someone posted a suggestion on your website to put it into a publishable format for a sailing rag as the how-to photos are meticulous and very informative for a first time stuffing box fixer upper. Thanks.
Nice pics of Maine and you have got to love the dogs! Someone posted a suggestion on your website to put it into a publishable format for a sailing rag as the how-to photos are meticulous and very informative for a first time stuffing box fixer upper. Thanks.
Thank you, Main Sail
Thanks for going to the trouble - your post should clarify the process of changing the packing for a lot of people. Tim - In case you missed it on Main Sail's link, if yours is a conventional bronze box, the outer or packing nut turns CCW to loosen it when you're looking at it from the engine/trans (facing aft) The inner or lock nut turns CW to loosen it. You should loosen the locking nut first, before you either tighten or loosen the packing nut. Then make whatever adjustment necessary to the packing nut, hold it from turning and run the lock nut up against it hard, to keep the packing from moving and altering the setting. You MAY get away with just tightening up the packing nut, for a while anyway, but if the old packing is worn out or hard, or the shaft scored, you may not be able to reduce the water entry to an acceptable level and will have to replace the packing ASAP. All this is easy to say, but if your boat is as cramped as mine is, access will probably be an issue. I haven't a clue how to tackle changing the packing when the boat's afloat: I suppose it's possible, but for a first-time job you'll probably take a bit of time to do the job properly, and that sure won't be helped if water's pouring in. Perhaps you'd be better off biting the bullet & getting the boat hauled for long enuf to change to packing. Good luck.
Thanks for going to the trouble - your post should clarify the process of changing the packing for a lot of people. Tim - In case you missed it on Main Sail's link, if yours is a conventional bronze box, the outer or packing nut turns CCW to loosen it when you're looking at it from the engine/trans (facing aft) The inner or lock nut turns CW to loosen it. You should loosen the locking nut first, before you either tighten or loosen the packing nut. Then make whatever adjustment necessary to the packing nut, hold it from turning and run the lock nut up against it hard, to keep the packing from moving and altering the setting. You MAY get away with just tightening up the packing nut, for a while anyway, but if the old packing is worn out or hard, or the shaft scored, you may not be able to reduce the water entry to an acceptable level and will have to replace the packing ASAP. All this is easy to say, but if your boat is as cramped as mine is, access will probably be an issue. I haven't a clue how to tackle changing the packing when the boat's afloat: I suppose it's possible, but for a first-time job you'll probably take a bit of time to do the job properly, and that sure won't be helped if water's pouring in. Perhaps you'd be better off biting the bullet & getting the boat hauled for long enuf to change to packing. Good luck.
Packing Replacement in the water
Tim, As mentioned several times here, try first to adjust the packing gland. If it needs to be repacked, you might try the following method. I tried this on my boat and it worked!! I had the diver who cleans my boat bottom use non-toxic modelling clay to seal the shaft where it exits the hull. It kept the job totally dry!!! ... the only caveat is that You cannot turn the shaft once the clay is stuffed around the shaft. I used 2 vicegrips to lock the shaft in place and then removed the packing gland. I was able to take my time to pick out all the old material, repack and clean up and stayed dry in the process. It worked well enough that the diver now offers it as a service. When you turn the shaft, the clay will spin out.
Tim, As mentioned several times here, try first to adjust the packing gland. If it needs to be repacked, you might try the following method. I tried this on my boat and it worked!! I had the diver who cleans my boat bottom use non-toxic modelling clay to seal the shaft where it exits the hull. It kept the job totally dry!!! ... the only caveat is that You cannot turn the shaft once the clay is stuffed around the shaft. I used 2 vicegrips to lock the shaft in place and then removed the packing gland. I was able to take my time to pick out all the old material, repack and clean up and stayed dry in the process. It worked well enough that the diver now offers it as a service. When you turn the shaft, the clay will spin out.
No Problem
Tim, I replaced my packing in the water just a few weeks ago. It is a "new" 1983 Catalina 27. I used 1/4 GFO and could only get one strand in (Catalina said if it works - it works). It has been dripless ever since while the engine is off. With the engine on, it is difficult to notice a drip. I actually have a dry bilge. The amount of water coming in was so little, with the bilge pumps on automatic, I could have gone back to the boat store and returned without worries - while everything was disassembled. Really, no problems. Tighten first - if no success, cut the strands, remove the old junk, repack, have a beer.
Tim, I replaced my packing in the water just a few weeks ago. It is a "new" 1983 Catalina 27. I used 1/4 GFO and could only get one strand in (Catalina said if it works - it works). It has been dripless ever since while the engine is off. With the engine on, it is difficult to notice a drip. I actually have a dry bilge. The amount of water coming in was so little, with the bilge pumps on automatic, I could have gone back to the boat store and returned without worries - while everything was disassembled. Really, no problems. Tighten first - if no success, cut the strands, remove the old junk, repack, have a beer.
Just did mine
I bought a 24 yo sailboat and enjoyed it for three years now. I was not looking forward to replacing the stuffing box packing. Having no travel lift and no trailer to rely on, I was even more than nervous. I kept a eye on the beach nearby. I inquired here (SBO) and went to the local boating store and bought several sizes of packing along with a removal tool ($4.29). It worked like it was suppose to. Everything went fine. I would suggest cutting the packing first. At my age getting to the box was the hardest thing, No, let me take that back . Getting up and out of the bilge from behind the motor, was the hardest thing. Everything went great and not much water entered, two gallons, maybe. I feel the water entering is not the major problem. Yet everyone is concerned about it. There are pumps to handle that. The major problem, I feel, is getting ALL the old stuffing out and the new in. I used the cork screw/wire tool to remove and a flat bladed screwdriver to install the new packing. Just tighten nuts till satisfied. Check weekly. Your done. Keep it up, Ctskip
I bought a 24 yo sailboat and enjoyed it for three years now. I was not looking forward to replacing the stuffing box packing. Having no travel lift and no trailer to rely on, I was even more than nervous. I kept a eye on the beach nearby. I inquired here (SBO) and went to the local boating store and bought several sizes of packing along with a removal tool ($4.29). It worked like it was suppose to. Everything went fine. I would suggest cutting the packing first. At my age getting to the box was the hardest thing, No, let me take that back . Getting up and out of the bilge from behind the motor, was the hardest thing. Everything went great and not much water entered, two gallons, maybe. I feel the water entering is not the major problem. Yet everyone is concerned about it. There are pumps to handle that. The major problem, I feel, is getting ALL the old stuffing out and the new in. I used the cork screw/wire tool to remove and a flat bladed screwdriver to install the new packing. Just tighten nuts till satisfied. Check weekly. Your done. Keep it up, Ctskip
I'd like to point out the obvious
Do not try this alone! If things don't go as planned you may end up stuck hanging on to the packing gland, trying to keep the bay out of the boat while yelling for help with nobody around to hear you. Always have a "spotter" who can go get help from the travel lift crew if things go real bad. You may just need them to get something onboard that is out of your reach when you can't let go of the gland. Anytime I have a project that has the potential to sink my boat (like pulling the knot log impeller for cleaning) I make sure somebody else is there with me. Think good thoughts but plan for the worst case, Tom s/v Orion's Child
Do not try this alone! If things don't go as planned you may end up stuck hanging on to the packing gland, trying to keep the bay out of the boat while yelling for help with nobody around to hear you. Always have a "spotter" who can go get help from the travel lift crew if things go real bad. You may just need them to get something onboard that is out of your reach when you can't let go of the gland. Anytime I have a project that has the potential to sink my boat (like pulling the knot log impeller for cleaning) I make sure somebody else is there with me. Think good thoughts but plan for the worst case, Tom s/v Orion's Child
Thanks everyone!
Glad to see so many helpful replies. My boat is a 1985 Catalina 27 with a 1" shaft and traditional bronze packing gland. I bought some 3/16" GFO packing from WM and will have some renewed confidence going back to the boat to break the darn locking nut loose. I do have a Rule 1500 gpm bilge pump with a float switch and a manual Whale Gusher pump. I will have another person with me just in case but I'm hoping a little tightening will do the trick. Don't know condition/age of current stuffing. Off to Home Depot for a couple tools and some screws and stuff in the event I need to pick out the old stuff. Thanks everyone. After the nasty NorEaster and some minor damage to the boat, I'm hoping after this problem is solved I can finally enjoy my first sailing season on the water!
Glad to see so many helpful replies. My boat is a 1985 Catalina 27 with a 1" shaft and traditional bronze packing gland. I bought some 3/16" GFO packing from WM and will have some renewed confidence going back to the boat to break the darn locking nut loose. I do have a Rule 1500 gpm bilge pump with a float switch and a manual Whale Gusher pump. I will have another person with me just in case but I'm hoping a little tightening will do the trick. Don't know condition/age of current stuffing. Off to Home Depot for a couple tools and some screws and stuff in the event I need to pick out the old stuff. Thanks everyone. After the nasty NorEaster and some minor damage to the boat, I'm hoping after this problem is solved I can finally enjoy my first sailing season on the water!
I did mine on the hard last summer. At the
time that I did it I realized that the stuffing box would be very very difficult to reach when the boat was in the water, making adjusting the nuts a very unpleasant task. (I have a Pearson 30 Wanderer.) After discussing my stuffing box arrangement in a thread on this forum last summer, I special ordered 2' of stuffing box hose from the good people at the chandlery in down-town Anapolis (I'm sorry, I forgot their names). I cut the hose down to 1.5' and installed it. (The old hose was .5'.) The stuffing box is now much easier to get at. After a few hundred miles, the modified stuffing box arrangement has been trouble free and vibration free.
time that I did it I realized that the stuffing box would be very very difficult to reach when the boat was in the water, making adjusting the nuts a very unpleasant task. (I have a Pearson 30 Wanderer.) After discussing my stuffing box arrangement in a thread on this forum last summer, I special ordered 2' of stuffing box hose from the good people at the chandlery in down-town Anapolis (I'm sorry, I forgot their names). I cut the hose down to 1.5' and installed it. (The old hose was .5'.) The stuffing box is now much easier to get at. After a few hundred miles, the modified stuffing box arrangement has been trouble free and vibration free.
Tim, Randy has the same boat as you
and used 1/4" GFO packing on his Catalina 27'. I do not think that the 1/16" difference makes that big a deal though as with smaller packing you will just have to tighten the nuts a little more to flatten out the packing to fill the space. Thicker packing material - less tightening needed. Note on cutlass bearing, where the shaft leaves the hull: if this bearing is tight (and it should be) you should not get that much water coming in upon removing the bolts. A nice trickle perhaps. Someone mentioned using clay to help stop the flow. I would rather get a $2.99 wax toilet ring at the hardware store and use that as it does not contain fine particulates that could infiltrate the packing and any residue will wash away cleanly over time. As the shaft turns there is friction which creates heat which will melt any wax. MainSail mentioned silty water as a possible problem for the stuffing box. By all means, try tightening the nuts first and see if you can get the dripping to stop. If this works you can then replace the packing on the hard this Fall. But keep a close eye on this critical part even if this works. And do not get lulled into complacency by an automatic bilge pump. We had our cabin flooded by a leaky stuffing box when we had an automatic pump set up which caused all manner of other problems including water in the Atomic 4 oil reservoir not to mention the mess. Once you re-pack the gland you can be satisfied that you will not have to touch it for another 5 to 10 years but you will always check it for drips. Good luck with this repair.
and used 1/4" GFO packing on his Catalina 27'. I do not think that the 1/16" difference makes that big a deal though as with smaller packing you will just have to tighten the nuts a little more to flatten out the packing to fill the space. Thicker packing material - less tightening needed. Note on cutlass bearing, where the shaft leaves the hull: if this bearing is tight (and it should be) you should not get that much water coming in upon removing the bolts. A nice trickle perhaps. Someone mentioned using clay to help stop the flow. I would rather get a $2.99 wax toilet ring at the hardware store and use that as it does not contain fine particulates that could infiltrate the packing and any residue will wash away cleanly over time. As the shaft turns there is friction which creates heat which will melt any wax. MainSail mentioned silty water as a possible problem for the stuffing box. By all means, try tightening the nuts first and see if you can get the dripping to stop. If this works you can then replace the packing on the hard this Fall. But keep a close eye on this critical part even if this works. And do not get lulled into complacency by an automatic bilge pump. We had our cabin flooded by a leaky stuffing box when we had an automatic pump set up which caused all manner of other problems including water in the Atomic 4 oil reservoir not to mention the mess. Once you re-pack the gland you can be satisfied that you will not have to touch it for another 5 to 10 years but you will always check it for drips. Good luck with this repair.
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