My keel is too low to lock in place

[patrickfarley]

The hole in my keel must be too long to keep the keel high enough to lock into place with the second bolt.

I tried to lock it into place for the first time yesterday and found that the hole was 1/8" too low.

I am going to continue to sail until January or February when it is too cold for me to sail and then fix it. For now I put a 1/2" bolt in the hole to block the keel. I wrapped the bolt in electrical tape to give it some cushion. There is no way I am going to let this stop me from sailing.

I don't know how to weld cast iron so I plan to take it to a shop and have them weld the hole back in it's original position.
The only other solution would be to drill a hole lower in the keel trunk after filling the original hole but that seems like a bad solution.

I have pictures of the keel but will have to add them later because they are on another computer. I pulled the keel, sandblasted, painted with metal protection paint and then barrier paint, and then bottom coat. It has been working pretty well. It has a few rust stains coming through so a redo will do more than just fix the hole.

 

[caguy]

The lock down bolt should be 3/8". That might be why you are having a difficult time getting it in. You should also have fender washers and 1/4" thick rubber disks. The PO on my Mac 25 recessed the fiberglass to give the washers a place to seat and distribute the load. With this set up if you ground the keel the bolt will not cut through the glass.

 

[BudGates]

It could be just a matter of where the keel stops at the bottom of it's swing. Try cranking the keel up a little bit at a time and see if that will allow you to insert the locking bolt.

 

[centerline]

caguy has it right... the keel lock bolt is supposed to be 3/8" diameter.... 1/2" will not fit even though the hole is big enough to accept it, because the hole in the keel and the hull dont line up perfectly, no matter how high or low it is cranked....

this is a fact that is a blessing in disguise, if not by specific design, because if you stuffed a 1/2" bolt in there and then you grounded hard enough to bend the bolt, you would NEVER get it removed without some destruction to the hole in the fiberglass....

the 3/8" bolt WILL bend when you ground the keel, but it can be removed from the hole very easily with a little manipulation of the winch.... carry an extra bolt with you.

 

[Piotr]

I have to line up the lock hole every time I go out. From experience, I let the keel all the way down, and then crank it up 10 cranks (I assume the rubber bumper is gone). You should be able to lock it some how...

 

[patrickfarley]

The locking hole in the keel is 3/8". However, it is too low for the holes in the keel trunk to line up with. The larger bolt is only being used to keep the keel from banging a groove in the keel trunk with a smaller bolt. If it would line up I would use the 3/8" bolt.

When I cleaned up the keel it did not look like it was too damaged.

I have moved the keel forward and back and watched the lock down hole go by both directions too low. I put a 3/8" bolt in the hole and it pointed down toward the keel and up on the outside of the keel trunk. I moved the keel with the bolt in the hole and it would not line up.

By the way every keel lockdown bolt that I have seen cut into the keel trunk was caused by the keel dropping into position. I have had that happen just from going over big waves. After looking at the pictures I am not so sure the keel bolt hole has worn too large.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone else have pictures of their keel that will lock down in their keel trunk?

Sorry it took so long to get the pictures up.

 

[patrickfarley]

When I took out my keel I noticed that the keel pivot bolt is 5/8". Is this the original size. I seem to remember reading something about replacing the original bolt with the larger size 5/8" bolt. If this is true then maybe the hole was redrilled too low.

When I looked at the picture I noticed that keel does not look too worn. At least to me. So now I wonder if it is something else.

 

[finding41]

Is the pivot hole worn? If so that would be the reason the hole in the keel is too low.
I attempted to install the hold down bolt on my Siren 17 the other day. NO go... The keel doesn't go down far enough. I'm guessing the cable broke on the PO and they just reattached it to the winch.
I picked up new longer cable today.
I also ordered 3 nylon bolts for my lock down pin. They will be strong enough to hold my 140 lb keel up in the event of pointy end down. they will also snap if I hit something.
I ordered them because they will snap off and not wreck the trunk.
I'm going to haul the boat tomorrow after the race and replace the cable Thursday on our lift. I'll also give the keel and inside the trunk a coat of anti fouling. We have Zebra mussels in our lake. There a pest inside a swing keel trunk.

 

[patrickfarley]

Is the pivot hole worn? If so that would be the reason the hole in the keel is too low.

This is what I am wondering. After looking at pictures of my keel and others on the web I think mine looks pretty good. Since it looks pretty good why is it too low to line up with the locking bolt hole?

I am hoping someone else has an idea.

 

[caguy]

According to MacGregor in Coast Mesa the pivot bolt is 1/2" with a 5/8" hole. The keel is sloppy when up but tightens when lowered by design.
If your hole is in the wrong place it may have always been that way or someone change out the keel. Anyhow move the hole in the trunk by patching it and redrilling it, I would do it with a recess as disgraced above so as to distribute shear load and reduce the chance of having your lock down bolt slice through the trunk.

 

[patrickfarley]

Ok. If the original pivot bolt is 1/2" then the PO must have replaced it with the 5/8" as recommended by MacGregor. I am thinking that when he drilled the larger hole he must have drifted a little low. I think I will leave it as is and drill a new lock down bolt hole. I am going to see if I can have a stop bolt in place for when I don't lock down the keel and will stop the keel in the perfect location for the lockdown bolt. Then I can lock it down easily and quickly. It will also let me unlock it quickly as I head for an island to beach the boat.

 

[patrickfarley]

So. I am worried about how much my keel gets knocked around. It really seems to bang side to side a lot. I had it pulled up all the way last time I left it at the marina. When I went back today I noticed that it would bang as I stepped on the boat. The keel winch has lowered just enough to let it bang around. When I motor it knocks about every 3 or 4 minutes.

I found I can put a 1/4" bolt through the lock down hole. I am now virtually certain that a new keel hole was drilled in the trunk and it drifted down just a little too much. I was ready to elongate the keel lock down bolt hole downward about 1/8", however, I like to contemplate before I drill a hole. Especially in the keel trunk.

I left the keel down this time with the 1/4" bolt in the lock down bolt hole.

 

[caguy]

They are made to be loose when up and tighten when down.

 

[patrickfarley]

Mine does not seem to tighten up when down.

 

[justsomeguy]

Mine does not seem to tighten up when down.

Neither does mine. Think there's something we could do about it? Maybe 5200 in some hard rubber shims?

I'm just about to drop my keel out for a look-see.

 

[patrickfarley]

Ok. I have an idea.
The hole for the lockdown bolt in the keel trunk will take a half inch bolt. I think that I can get or make a couple 3/8" sleeves with a lip. I can turn the lip toward the keel on the lock down bolt and cut it down to size so that at least the top of the keel will have a reduced area to swing back and forth(sideways).

My other thought is to remove the keel and build up a few layers of fiberclass on the top of the keel so it will fit the slot with less play. I don't plan to drop the keel until next spring so that means about 2 years from now if it goes the way of the rest of my list of things to do.

 

[THECUSCUS]

That will point load the weight of the keel where the bushing is, and potentially cause problems. The keel lays against the whole length of the trunk when you are heeled, which distributes the weight over a larger area. Adding thickness to the keel would be best. I thought about cutting large pieces of scrap fiberglass and making big washers that the pivot bolt would hold in place. I found the most play came from the pivot bolt hole being worn, alowing the keel to twist around the bolt (especially when in the raised position or motoring with the keel down). I drilled the pivot hole larger and but a bronze bushing in keel, put bushings in the keel trunk pivot holes and make the top of the keel thicker when I redid it. No clanging around anymore.

 

[jjsbiggs]

I had the same problem with the lock bolt not lining up. Both the lock hole and pivot hole on the keel had no wear. So I just took a round file and elongated the hole until the bolt would slide in. That was three years ago and I've had no issues since.

 

[patrickfarley]

Thanks for the information.
The 1/4" bolt is bent already.
My next trip to the marina will be with tools to elongate the hole.

 

[BILLNPR]

Keel pivot point

On my M25 the pivot hole for the bolt was enlarged like an egg instead of round. This allowed the keel to drop slightly. When I refinished the keel, I used epoxy and fiber filler to bring the hole back to shape on both sides. I wrapped the new pivot bolt in plastic packing tape and inserted it so that both sides would line up when dry. The locking hole then lined up too.