Lower Gudgeon Access

May 8, 2019
6
Catalina 22 Jordan Lake
I've been able to gleam a lot of helpful information from the forum, and appreciate the wealth of knowledge! One of the things I've discovered is that a leaking lower rudder gudgeon might contribute to the amount of water i'm finding in the bilge after sailing. The boat can sit in the water overnight and not have a problem. I can even, "motor," (I'm using a 55# trolling motor) slowly and not take on much water. However, if I'm underway with any speed, I'm taking on water. Around 1.5 to 2 gallons (approximate guess, based on the bucket I keep in the boat).

The area under the cockpit is filled with foam (which is seriously stained and moldy). What is the best way to get at the bolts to re-seal the gudgeon?

Thanks!
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Is there a way to cut a round access port on the inner transom, at the cockpit? That seems to be a common way to get access to the gudgeons - and then fit a pre-made round water-tight hatch on the access port. The examples I've seen seem to be about 8" diameter ports - maybe smaller. Is your boat the "original design," model made before 1986, or a "new design" made after 86'?
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
You can't see the nuts from the port cockpit locker ? If so, you likely need to remove some foam. Foam is likely useless and saturated now anyhow.

Upper... you need to cut a hole at back of the cockpit.
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
The boat can sit in the water overnight and not have a problem. I can even, "motor," slowly and not take on much water. However, if I'm underway with any speed, I'm taking on water. Around 1.5 to 2 gallons (approximate guess, based on the bucket I keep in the boat).
That sounds more like a keel lockdown bolt than a lower gudgeon.
 
May 8, 2019
6
Catalina 22 Jordan Lake
Thank you for the replies. The boat is a 1976, swing keel. I've checked the locker where the keel lockdown bolt is and there isn't much accumulation in there. I haven't noticed that drain hole (is it called a "limber hole"?) in that locker, however, I guess water could travel under the cabin sole?

Foam under the cockpit sole, all the way to the transom. There is thin plywood on either side of the foam. I've considered trying to cut that stuff out. There is a storage hatch in the V berth that is also filled with foam. I've considered cutting some type of access port to get to the bolts...just wasn't sure what I'd run in to.
 

greg_m

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May 23, 2017
692
Catalina Jaguar 22 Simons Town
Having not launched my boat yet I'm open to comments: My question... Is the lower gudgeon even in the water while afloat?

I've yet to see any boat with a transom hung rudder where the lower gudgeon is below the waterline.

Speed could cause water pressure to build up into the keel centerboard casing. However OP has not mentioned the type of keel he has on his boat. He has also not mentioned where the majority of the water is to be found.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Do not cut the hole! That is a last resort only!

Access to both gudgeons is easy. They both have a brass backing bar that is glassed or glued into place. The problem is the glue or glass often won't hold the backing bar with the screws removed. Go get 2 pieces of threaded rod to match the screws (remove one screw for size). Remove 2 screws and insert the rods. Remove the remaining screws and the gudgeon. Then clean up and rebed with a sealant that can be used below the water line (not butyl) and reinstall the gudgeons. The hole should only be cut in a worst case situation where you droped the brass backing plate. For most the hole is never necessary.

While your at it consider adding a spacer block to the upper Gudegon as it will greatly reduce your weather helm. Most racers do this with great success.
 
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Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
My question... Is the lower gudgeon even in the water while afloat?

I've yet to see any boat with a transom hung rudder where the lower gudgeon is below the waterline.
Yes if you have a few people in the cockpit and the locker full of gear with the motor on the transom the lower gudgeon is below the water just barely. Mine started leaking shortly after I bought the boat and I had to rebed it. Since I don't have foam I could reach the lower brass plate.

My boat is a wing keel so no lock down bolt.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Inprefer a hole. Nice cover. Makes it easy to run wiring etc. Trying to deal with upgrading the upper gudgeon on our new style would have beena serious PITA compared to a nice access hole with waterproof cover. I saw it as a 30 minute upgrade.
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Inprefer a hole. Nice cover. Makes it easy to run wiring etc. Trying to deal with upgrading the upper gudgeon on our new style would have beena serious PITA compared to a nice access hole with waterproof cover. I saw it as a 30 minute upgrade.
No doubt it makes it convenient for access. What size hole did you cut? I've been lucky so far - but with Murphy's law, I'm just waiting.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Can't remember. but I believe I noted the size of the hole and cover etc is in my refit thread. Easy peasy really.
Made it much easier to run wiring later too.
 
Nov 12, 2015
87
Catalina 22 Lake LBJ
I had a similar leak that was corrected by sealing the lower gudgeon..... No brass backer on mine, my wife was able to get her hand in that small space.
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
I had a similar leak that was corrected by sealing the lower gudgeon..... No brass backer on mine, my wife was able to get her hand in that small space.
I would comment, but it would be inappropriate for this forum...
 
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May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
sorry, that was in bad taste, always good to have an able Admiral around to bail us out, mine has contributed similarly on many occasions!
 
Nov 12, 2015
87
Catalina 22 Lake LBJ
I worked hard to get that post about how she helped me to be G rated, but seemed to have failed...
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
It was more of the "up in that small space" that was scary - not the good with the hands part. Can't have everything too PC...