Loose Rigging on a V222

Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
I noticed on our maiden voyage this past weekend with our V222 that the rigging (side stays) where never completely tuned. They where very loose though both the back stay and main stay seemed tight, I could never get the side stays tight. I turned the turnbuckles to their max and they were still loose. Is there a method I'm missing? Should I loosen the back stay all the way then the main/front stay? I know there is a "rake" or angle to the mast, what is that angle percisely? And will loosening the back stay first, then attaching the front (and pulling the mast back with the back stay help? What is the process? Any help or tricks would be appricated.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
On the S and probably your boat also the back stay really doesn't do much except to help tune the mast if you are racing and it helps support it when running down wind. The side stays, shrouds, oppose the forestay and you tighten them in conjunction with the forestay to achieve proper tension on them and the forestay. You also determine the rake during this (can't remember what a good angle is). How you tighten the lower and upper shrouds will determine the tension on them and also if the mast is straight or now. Straight but still raked back. Most people adjust the shrouds so that the top part of the mast has a slight bend to it and then the back stay can then be used to induce more bend into the upper part of the mast if so desired.

We also had to always open the forestay turnbuckle up in order to pin it and then re-tighten it once pinned to get proper tension.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html
We added a Johnson lever and now we can release it and pin the forestay and then snap it back into position and the tension is repeatable without dealing with the turnbuckle.

The S didn't come with turnbuckles on the shrouds and I doubt your boat did either. It came with verniers as shown above. I suspect the rigging was changed and turnbuckles added at the same time. They probably didn't get the lengths right if you can't tension the shrouds.

This might help a little but it addresses the later Macs but bet the earlier ones were the same...

http://www.bwyachts.com/rig_tuning_tips.htm

Sumner
=======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks Sumner this is very helpful. I guess a quick fix could be to go back to verniersn or tangs. I'm going to keep working on it. I'll keep you posted.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,746
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Todd,
You haven't said if this is a new boat or a new to you boat. What year is the boat? Is there any reason to suspect the mast tabernacle and conpression post have sunk? It is also possible to tighten the fore and back stays too tight, introducing excessive bend in the mast. This could cause your shrouds to loosen. How hard was it to raise the mast and connect the forestay? I take it, she was already rigged when you took ownership of her?! How old is the standing rigging? Maybe it is time to replace them? What happens when you let them loose? Do they kink or roll up?

To tune:
In the water so you are working with level waterline, hang a weight on you're halyard just above the turnbuckle. Measure your rake by the distance the halyard hangs from the mast just above the gooseneck. Different sailors like different rake. Start with 4" out from your mast. You can control this with the forestay.

Do your shrouds tighten now that there is minimal pressure on the mast? Tighten your lower shrouds to center your mast until tension feels tight when you pluck it. If the mast is plumb, tension will be equal. Next, tighten the upper shrouds. Make sure you keep the mast straight and plumb. The weighted halyard will be your guide.

Once you have everything tight, take her for a sail. Watch the lee shrouds on a beam reach in a strong wind (15-20) knots. If they visibly lose tension (the turnbuckle falls out of line with the shroud) take up the slack evenly on both sides.

I recently learned that current thinking is your shrouds should never go slack, but I've always sailed with the idea that a little slack above 20 knots on a beam reach is fine, if not ideal.

The cut of your main can give you a good idea if you have the rake right. Normally, the boom will be level shitting slack with the sail raised.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2011
146
Mariner Yacht Co.(NH) Mariner 28 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
The rake on a V 222 is determined by weighting the main halyard and measuring against the boom. I think it was 6 inches or so, but I sold my 222 12 years ago. You can find an owners manual on line or call Blue water yachts. Sumner is correct the 222 had the vernier shroud adjusters. Someone must have added turn buckles and did the math wrong. The shrouds are relatively small wire rope so not expensive. make some careful measurements and order new and shorter shrouds. Or try getting some norseman type fittings and adjusting the length yourself. Given the size of the wire rope, I don't see that being an easy option. Mast rake is important on the 222. When I had mine wrong, I couldn't get the boat to tack.
Lou
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks everyone. I'm going to raise the mast this week and see how close I can get it (all be it on the trailer). I'll take some picture as well. I did have a thought this weekend though... what about using stay extenders or tangs to achieve the desired tension. I understand the V222 did not come with turnbuckles originally. Any thoughts?
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,370
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I used to sail a V222. LOVE mine. She was a very fast boat. I had the same style verniers that Sumner showed in a previous photo.

Mine were also loose when I first got the boat. I moved the verniers to the tightest position I could and then (like Sumner) I would have to open the forstay's turnbuckle to pin it, and then close it back up. Even then, my leeward shrouds were never taught but had a little give in them when reaching.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
I'm currently operation under the assumption the PO replaced the verniers with turnbuckles. The turnbuckles are a bit to long, so I'm goiong to replace with an M6 closed body turnbuckle. I believe this will provide the inch or two needed to take up the slack. I'll post pictures and more about how I arrived at this logic later. Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,370
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Sounds like a good plan. I would not make them too tight. On mine I wanted the leeward side shroud to be just barely taught in about a 10 mph breeze. It seems this was the norm on Macs and on all of the Macs I've sailed the back stay was slack unless on a run. I know that seems odd but that has been my observation. I've owned three Macs.

Without knowing how your shrouds are attached to the turnbuckle, .... can you shorten your shrouds to allow the existing turnbuckles to function properly? How about the end that attaches at the mast? If your bail is secured with a wire nut, then it would be easy to shorten the shrouds but if it is swagged then it will be a larger job.