Looking at a C-22, need a trained eye

Gene Neill · Jan 1, 2021

Mast and rudder appear to be typical, from what I can see. I've never owned a fixed rudder like that, mine have all been kick-up. "Off-center" keel looks okay to me, although the keel itself looks a bit rough, as does the small area of bottom paint visible. I assume the evidence of misuse you mentioned is a big rusty "smile" gouged on one side of the keel?

One thing I see is in the first large pic, the one of the keel hanger. One keel bolt was snapped off at some point, and it looks like someone has butchered in a hex(?) bolt from inside the cabin, with a nut on the outside. Is the liner cut open inside, just aft of the compression post, in the vicinity of the keel bolt? The other bolt is normal, it has a captive nut called a "weldment" embedded in the hull. I bought a '79 that had been done the same way yours was. At least they had the decency to use stainless on yours; on mine they did not. With a little luck, you could still sail that boat for years as is. Might have a minor but persistent leak around that bolt, though, if it's done like mine was.

Hunter216 · Jan 2, 2021

@Gott654

Welcome to SBO

In addition to all the great info here some of the more active members often mention the C22 tech manual found at this link:

catalina22.org

Catalina 22 National Sailing Association

www.catalina22.org

You can also purchase various items here at the SBO store.

Gene Neill · Jan 2, 2021

Gott654 said:
Thanks for the reply. You’ve pointed out all the same concerns I had. Keel looks crusty but there’s no large amounts missing and lift cable bolt is in good shape, and the hole isn’t overly worn. As far as it being thru bolted, I’ll check again but I didn’t see a bolt or evidence that someone had been there. She definitely needs a bottom and keel painted. But... for what I paid I’ll not complain

It'll be interesting if there has been no surgery from inside. Maybe, hopefully, someone just threaded piece of all-thread up into the weldment and put a nut on it? That would be fabulous news. Otherwise the all-thread would just be threaded into ... 3/4" of epoxy? You'd have to be brave enough to remove it to find out.

Good source for new keel bolts, if you choose to open that can of worms and replace them: McMaster-Carr

After the nightmare I went through with that '79, I replace mine annually. It's colossal overkill, but what the heck. It's about $5 and 15 minutes a year to always have brand new keel bolts.

Just for laughs, this was what the abortion in my cabin looked like. Galvanized hardware and clear silicone.

Gene Neill · Jan 3, 2021

Gott654 said:
Ouch, no mine doesnt look quite that bad. I checked again I can’t see where anyone hacked up the inside. @Gene Neill what do you think?

Other than I own a super dirty boat lol. Just for my own satisfaction I put a bottle jack under the front of the keel and backed the nut off to see if the whole business came loose(ideal) or just the nut came loose. Well, just the nut came loose so whatever that nut is into is solid. Both the bolt and nut are tight. I’m not sure what tolerance is for the keel to pin but there is 1/8” between keel and pin.
thanks again.

Looks like no butchering over the weldments, so yours is probably still intact, with no broken-off bolt in it, probably.

Is that your artwork around the keel lockdown hole? LOL There are two camps regarding that lockdown business. I'm in the camp that says plug the hole or glass over it and forget the thing was ever there. Don't listen to me though. I'm also in the camp that thinks lawn darts are a drinking game.

The ideal gap between keel and pin ... you mean between keel and hanger? The ideal gap would be close to zero, but that's rare. Stainless or Delrin spacers will take up the slack and reduce the clunking. If you ever replace the hangers, the new ones come wider than they need to be. The idea is you have them milled down just right for your boat, leaving as little gap as possible.

Gene Neill · Jan 3, 2021

Sounds legit to me! Although, we parlayed our '79 into an '88 (has different cockpit drains) soon after I got the keel situation under control, so I've never had to deal with the issue myself.

AaronD · Jan 4, 2021

Gott654 said:
No, I’m happy to say that I’m not the one that did that. I’d rather not spend the time and cash to put the strap and locking bolt back, but at the same time I’m pretty green and this is my first boat this size‍Also, it looks like Picasso did the same business on the cockpit drain thru hull, so that’s due as well. I’m considering doing the double thru hull with crisscrossing drain lines. Any thoughts about that??

Probably a good idea to do something about the drain. I'm happy with a single flanged through-hull (although I wish I'd gone with 1" or 1.25" instead of 3/4"). Pictures and parts list on my thread (with a reference to @Maine Sail's excellent instructions). A double drain would be roughly 2x the cost in parts (but not 2x the time).

AaronD · Jan 4, 2021

Gott654 said:
I appreciate the link and the advice. The fact that I can get away with making just one hole in my boat makes me very happy. The only question I have is would you upsize the the cockpit drains or just the thru hull?

Good question. I can think of two reasons to upsize:

1) Safety - namely, draining the cockpit faster if you ever take a big wave. For that, it's easier and probably more effective to add big transom drains / scuppers (something like the ones I linked here). The cockpit will still slope forward, so the transom drains won't completely empty the cockpit, but they should drain most of the water much faster than anything with a grate in the front of the cockpit. In my opinion, that's a worthwhile addition no matter what size forward drains you end up with (and it's pretty easy and cheap).

2) Convenience - my forward drains occasionally clog up with gunk, and I have to poke a wire down to clear it. I think that upsizing just the through-hull and hoses would help. I expect that upsizing the drains and grates would too, but that's a bit more surgery. If my slip ever got leaves, I'd be motivated to upsize here too. As it is, I'm OK with the occasional 'poke-a-wire-at-it' maneuver. Your call.

kappykaplan · Jan 8, 2021

Gott654 said:
I’m fairly certain this plumbing doesn’t pass, I’ve not seen anyone with check valves, looks like household plumbing.

Looks like a couple of gate valves and a ball valve to me. I like the gate valves.

ShawnL · Jan 9, 2021

There are a couple of ways to do it, either from below, or from above. From below, I'd say if you can flip the boat it'd be a lot easier. But not totally necessary. You start by pulling down everything you can, keeping the pieces as large as possible so you can use them as templates. Then grind / sand out what's left. I had planned to do mine with layers of 1/4 plywood, fiberglass and epoxy. From the outside, pretty much the same thing, except your fiberglass work needs to be better

Ultimately, I decided that mine wasn't really that bad once it all dried out. I ended up drilling a bunch of 3/4" holes in the deck down into the coring. I put little plastic funnels in the holes and poured as much warm epoxy into each holes as I could get them to take. Then I went into the boat and used a bottle jack and blocking to jack the sagging parts back up into place. Then back out to continue to pour epoxy into the holes. I did one side at a time. It was about 55 degrees out when I did it, so I used that to my advantage. I kept the epoxy tubs in warm water so it would flow out quickly. But at 55 degrees outside, I figured it wouldn't really kick. One I was done with a side I closed up the boat and put a space heater in it, cranked up to 85 degrees and left it overnight. The next day, everything was nicely cured. Filled any holes that needed more, and repeated.

Got about 3/4 of the way through patching all the holes with epoxy fairing compound (total boat) before it got too cold out. The other holes are covered with tape (and the boat covered) until spring. I'll finish filling, do some fairing and then paint (previous owner had painted it, so no use doing gel coat). I'm sure it's not a forever fix, but it has made quite a difference in the feel of the deck and it was a lot less work than the other methods.

ShawnL · Jan 9, 2021

I wouldn't' replace the core with just epoxy -- you need something else in there for strength. That could be fiberglass. Some of the bi-axial cloth is pretty strong. There's a guy on youtube (boatworks today) that has some really great fiberglass tutorials. I think personally if I had to do the whole thing, I'd do it from the inside, on my back and use layers of 1/4" plywood (epoxy coated) and fiberglass. I don't have the resources to flip the boat.

The outer skin is probably 1/4" of fiberglass and gel coat. I wouldn't attempt to even walk on it alone. You'd just make it worse, or break it. You might be able to get by without replacing the whole core by adding cross-members every whatever inches to support the deck structure.

Hunter216 · Jan 9, 2021

I would suggest (if you haven’t already) to read through some of the extensive foredeck repairs BEFORE you decide HOW to proceed. You might also do a little reading on fibreglass - sandwich construction vs solid.

Not to say that the whole repair thing isn’t “entertaining” on its own, some people buy a used sailboat to go sailing, some buy one because it gives them a project. Most sailors end up somewhere in the middle