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Launching/Returning boat to hard, buyer’s costs

Breal

.
Apr 21, 2009
43
H 31 Barnegat Bay, NJ
Hello everyone.
How much does it topically cost the perspective buyer of a boat to launch a boat and put it back on the hard? I ask for the MD Chesapeake area.
How do you know if you are being gouged.
Do these marinas work in tandem or closely with brokerage companies to financially punish the buyer if the deal does not go through? Does the buyer’s broker have the buyer’s interest in mind if the selling broker is part of the same brokerage company. I think I know the answer to that one, lol!
Please share you experiences or your insight.
Thank you kindly,
B.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,399
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
First, I've not purchased a boat on the hard, so my cost was to pull it out to inspect the bottom. If I remember correctly it was around $300 on the left coast for a lunch time hang, then back in the drink. That's for a 30 footer. The survey was closer to $600 more.

Ken
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
If possible, get the parts (rigging, interior) that are accessible first. That way, if there a problem there, you don't need to haul out-yet.
 
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Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,129
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
At our marina the cost for a short haul, pull from water, hang in lift for up to an hour, then back in was around $175 for a 25’ boat. Launching a boat that’s on the hard, then hauling and putting on the hard was more than double.
Any boat that is on the hard, then launched gets a close scrutiny of all systems before it is removed from the slings to ensure it’s not taking on water. That’s time spent by a yard mechanic at their hourly rate.
When put back on the hard it needs to be re-blocked and moved back to storage.
Both contribute to the added cost.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
RON's right on target there. The bottoms the least of your worries. Check out all first Rigging, sea trial, electrical, fuel, and all the seacocks inspections first. If still looks good then do a haul-out for final inspections. Remember any DUCK TAPE usage means walk away...lol
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
These are questions that your buyer’s broker should be answering for you, as she would be in conversation with the subject storage yard. Budget $300 for a launch and haul but don’t spend it until your surveyor does a phase l survey of the boat while on the hard as Ron describes. If it meets your requirements for Phase l you get it in the water, check the systems, run the engine and do your sailing sea trial. Personally, I would want a boat in the water because so much of the survey is done there, and that is where a boat is supposed to live. Suggests a disengaged owner.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,941
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Does the buyer’s broker have the buyer’s interest in mind if the selling broker is part of the same brokerage company.
No broker has the buyer's or the seller's interests in mind; they have the commission in mind. The advantage the seller has is both want the boat to sell. The buyer wants as much as they can get for the boat; the broker would like that, but a quickly pocketed commission may be more valuable to them. I sound rather pessimistic here, but that is just the way the dynamics are setup. That doesn't mean they are out to cheat anyone. Most people want to be honest and most brokers are concerned about their reputation and future business. If you can, meet the seller and get a sense of the kind of person they are. If you didn't know they owned a boat, how do you think they would treat a boat they owned? How do they treat their car, their shoes, their hair? Do they pay attention, are they too busy, are they really sailors or hobbyists?
Ask the same kinds of questions about both the seller's and the buyers broker, just from a different perspective. The surveyor you hire is likely to know their reputation, unless nobody is local to the boat's location.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 
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Dec 23, 2016
184
Catalina 27 Clinton CT
Do these marinas work in tandem or closely with brokerage companies to financially punish the buyer if the deal does not go through


Ok let's find the paranoid in the crowd!!!!
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,530
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Hello everyone.
How much does it topically cost the perspective buyer of a boat to launch a boat and put it back on the hard? I ask for the MD Chesapeake area.
How do you know if you are being gouged.
Do these marinas work in tandem or closely with brokerage companies to financially punish the buyer if the deal does not go through? Does the buyer’s broker have the buyer’s interest in mind if the selling broker is part of the same brokerage company. I think I know the answer to that one, lol!
Please share you experiences or your insight.
Thank you kindly,
B.
I wonder what prompted your set of questions; they seem a bit unusual. Marinas/yards typically have a schedule of their costs for launching/hauling/blocking the boat. If you're getting "gouged", then everybody else might be too, in which case the marina/yard might have trouble staying long in business! As long as the marina/yard is paid to its rate schedule, then there is no reason to think that anyone except the broker/seller cares whether the transaction goes through. I doubt anything punitive is going on there.

My experience w/ a so-called buyer's broker when I bought the boat I have now, is that he did a good job for me. He did not make any, or much, commission on the sale of the Bavaria itself; but got to keep the full commission on the sale of the boat I traded in for it. So, I dunno. The brokerage can set up anything it wishes (that's legal) on how to compensate its employees.

As far as marina/yards go generally, virtually all of the boaters I know complain about their rates on about anything they do. And this goes back at least to the 15th century in reading some accounts. Here, skippers will run their boats to Ensenada, MX (150 n.mi. distant) to have work done at Baja Naval to lower cost. The old privateers of the 18th century hated the thought of using a yard for any repairs; it was considered a disgrace among other seaman to have to pay for yard work. If those guys wanted to work on the bottom of a boat, they'd careen it somewhere and do the work themselves. When Cook's boat HMS Endeavour sprung its foremast leaving Hawaii, Cook "cursed" the yard at Whitby for its shoddy work. They had to return to Hawaii to find a tree to use to make a new mast, which is what lead to his death at the hands of the Hawaiians.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
No broker has the buyer's or the seller's interests in mind; they have the commission in mind.- Will (Dragonfly)
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. A buyer's broker wouldn't stay in business very long if this was his business model! Much more than a seller's broker he must be there to help the buyer negotiate a good price and ensure that the buyer is protected. With the internet, these days a reputation can be ruined pretty quickly.
My buyer's broker flew from Wisconsin to NYC and back on his own nickel, helped me in every way possible, handled the escrow, and it didn't cost me a penny more than lunch and a ride to and from the airport.
I've known a lot of brokers over my 50 odd year career in the marine industry, and though there are a considerable number of 'used car salesmen' types, there are a lot of very honest and helpful yacht brokers out there, on both sides of the fence. Using the internet, it should be a pretty simple thing to find a capable, honest and helpful broker.
It seems to be the surveyors these days that are less than qualified, IMO. After all, every survey I've ever had done lately had a notification that the surveyor is not responsible for anything he missed.
To wit;
"IT SHALL BE EXPRESSLY UNDERSTOOD BY ALL THOSE WHO RELY ON THIS SURVEY THE UNDERSIGNED SURVEYOR IS NOT LIABLE FOR ERROR, EITHER BY COMMISSION OR OMISSION."
 
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MitchM

.
Jan 20, 2005
960
Nauticat 321 pilothouse 32 Erie PA
if you are buying a boat that's on the hard , and want a survey and sea trial, it needs to be decided who pays for what: the seller, or the buyer ? it is a LOT of work for an owner or yard to de-winterize every system so the systems can be examined in a survey, and then launch and run a sea trial. the pre purchase contract will have an offer price 'subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial.' the contract will generally include a provision of who pays to un-winterize , launch, then haul and re-winterize if need be. consider also the possibility that if there is a satisfactory sea trial and survey, the boat may need to be stored for a time at a slip for a sail - away, at a per-foot cost that will need to be paid by some one. those costs need to be specified in the contract to a void a lot of legal hassle and very hard feelings. we've bought and sold 4 boats , both with and without a broker . in every case, we clearly specified whether it was the buyer or the seller who was bearing the cost of the various items. the standard broker's contract may not be specific on these issues.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
if you are buying a boat that's on the hard , and want a survey and sea trial, it needs to be decided who pays for what: the seller, or the buyer ?
Who would expect the seller to pay this and why would one? I bought this boat on the hard and it never even occurred to me that if I wanted to have the boat launched, it would not be my responsibility to pay for it. However, it's been a lot of years since I've 'sea trialed' a boat, so the launching was not even a concern to me.
 
Apr 10, 2017
91
Seidelman 37 Kemah, TX
We have run across this situation numerous times in FL. Never got to the point of actually making an offer on any of those boats. While I certainly expect to pay for a short haul for a boat in the water, I don't see paying for launching and then reblocking the boat on the hard. If the owner wants to store the boat on the hard while it is for sale, that is his problem. I would expect to pay the normal short haul fee but not a penny more. And until the survey comes back and the paper work is complete I don't expect to pay for storage, on the hard or in a slip.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
And until the survey comes back and the paper work is complete I don't expect to pay for storage, on the hard or in a slip.
I agree with this statement entirely, but the rest confuses me. Are you not already aware that the boat is on the hard when you go to see it? Is that not an understanding that if you want to have it launched that you must return it to it's original state afterward? How can you ask that an owner pay that?
I'm certainly not going to forkout money so you can go for a day sail (or as some wish to call it, a sea trial) on my stored boat, especially if you don't buy it. At the most, you could make some agreement that the owner pays iF you do buy the boat, otherwise you are going to have a difficult time buying a boat if this is your attitude. I would hang up the phone if you proposed that I pay to return my boat to where it was when you came to look at it, and you could go find some other boat to buy.
 
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Apr 10, 2017
91
Seidelman 37 Kemah, TX
Was I aware the boat was on the hard? No, I was not. We have looked at a lot of boats along the Gulf Coast, TX, LA, etc. They were all in the water. The first time a broker told us to meet in a boat yard to look at a boat we were shocked, had never occurred to us to ask. In the future that will be the first question because unless it is really special, that will rule it out. My wife won't climb one of those rickety ladders and then there is the hassle of doing a proper in the water survey. We looked at one boat that was so far back in the yard they would have had to move two or three others to get to it. Should that have been my problem? I don't think so. When the owner puts a boat on the hard and then puts it up for sale, surely he realizes the additional expense involved in getting to a proper survey. If we get to a survey we have made at least two trips from TX to FL, had hotel expenses and put up a 10% deposit, so, no, we are not looking for a free boat ride in the guise of a sea trial.
 

Breal

.
Apr 21, 2009
43
H 31 Barnegat Bay, NJ
Does $16 a foot seem high, reasonable or low.
It seems high to me but this is the reason I'm asking.

Part of my question regarding the brokers is reasonable, should I expect this broker to have my best interest of the boat is listed by the same brokage company?
I don't see how because in my mind it seems like there is a bit of a conflict of interest.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Part of my question regarding the brokers is reasonable, should I expect this broker to have my best interest of the boat is listed by the same brokage company?
I don't see how because in my mind it seems like there is a bit of a conflict of interest.
This definitely sounds like a bit more than a bit of a conflict of interest to me.
Nope, I'd not use a buyer's broker from the selling broker's company. The selling broker must share the commision with the buyer's broker, which is why it shouldn't cost you a dime. Time to find a buyer's broker who's only interest is in YOUR interests!
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,399
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
It may depend on how many people have looked at the boat. If it's being ignored the seller may be more flexible.

Ken
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
We looked at one boat that was so far back in the yard they would have had to move two or three others to get to it. Should that have been my problem?
I agree that this is not a good situation if a boat is SERIOUSLY on the market. That certainly isn't on the owner though; the broker should have had the boat moved to facilitate the sale, IMO. Sounds like a bad broker to me, or an owner not really ready to sell yet.
Just out of curiosity, what would you expect to get out of an in water survey that you can't do on the hard? A good surveyor can check the running gear superficially on the hard and a lab can analyze the engine and tranty fluids better than a sea trial.
I'm much more interested in what's hidden underwater than by what I can't learn on the hard. About the only thing I can think of off hand, that won't operate on the hard is an RO unit.