I am taking my first crusing vacation next month. I'm sailing my hunter 25.5 to Cumberland Island GA for a week. My boat has a very deep ice box and I was wondering if there were any tips for keeping food and the all important beer cold for an extended period of time? Does dry ice work? thanks.... Ted
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david
Heat Transfer
The trick to keeping food cold and retaining ice is to start with it as cold as possible, keep it insulated to the max, and use it up as it un-thaws. Do not keep food and drinks in the same cooler, you will open it far too frequently and cause the food to un-thaw quickly. If the food un-thaws before you are ready to eat it, just cook it then put it back on ice and it will keep for a few more days. Yes dry ice is a very good idea if you have a supply. It is like minus 100 degrees F so you will have cold food longer. Make sure all your meats are frozen to start with at the lowest setting on your fridge. Transporting food to the boat completely fill a cooler with cold ice and food, pack it full, when you get to the boat put the frozen food in first and cold ice on top of it. have a good trip
The trick to keeping food cold and retaining ice is to start with it as cold as possible, keep it insulated to the max, and use it up as it un-thaws. Do not keep food and drinks in the same cooler, you will open it far too frequently and cause the food to un-thaw quickly. If the food un-thaws before you are ready to eat it, just cook it then put it back on ice and it will keep for a few more days. Yes dry ice is a very good idea if you have a supply. It is like minus 100 degrees F so you will have cold food longer. Make sure all your meats are frozen to start with at the lowest setting on your fridge. Transporting food to the boat completely fill a cooler with cold ice and food, pack it full, when you get to the boat put the frozen food in first and cold ice on top of it. have a good trip
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Paul Akers
Hint on dry ice
Don't use dry ice in your drink cooler or else be very careful. It will freeze your drinks and crack any bottles.
Don't use dry ice in your drink cooler or else be very careful. It will freeze your drinks and crack any bottles.
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Dave Viglierchio
It can kill you.
If you seal up your boat on a cold evening the gas from evaporating dry ice can kill you in very small amounts. I asked a chemist about this and he thought I was out of my mind for thinking of sleeping in a small room with dry ice. Some will tell you they do it all the time. A lot of people have been injured and worse that say that about things they don't understand. If you keep the hatch open - you'll probably be fine. If someone gets up and closes it you may not wake up. Your choice.
If you seal up your boat on a cold evening the gas from evaporating dry ice can kill you in very small amounts. I asked a chemist about this and he thought I was out of my mind for thinking of sleeping in a small room with dry ice. Some will tell you they do it all the time. A lot of people have been injured and worse that say that about things they don't understand. If you keep the hatch open - you'll probably be fine. If someone gets up and closes it you may not wake up. Your choice.
Block ice to start with.....
Ted: Get a block of ice to start with. Then freeze everything that can be frozen and place it in containers to keep from getting wet when the ice thaws. You can also freeze water bottles and then drink the water as needed. There are also some icebox blankets that are *suppose* to help. Do not open the ice box any more than you need to. You can put your daily supply of drinks on a portable ice chest, this will minimize the entry into your ice box. And yes do stay away from Dry Ice in your ICE BOX. This may be okay in a portable cooler that does not stay inside the boat and is not vented into your bilge.
Ted: Get a block of ice to start with. Then freeze everything that can be frozen and place it in containers to keep from getting wet when the ice thaws. You can also freeze water bottles and then drink the water as needed. There are also some icebox blankets that are *suppose* to help. Do not open the ice box any more than you need to. You can put your daily supply of drinks on a portable ice chest, this will minimize the entry into your ice box. And yes do stay away from Dry Ice in your ICE BOX. This may be okay in a portable cooler that does not stay inside the boat and is not vented into your bilge.
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Bob
Dry Ice...
Sorry guys...I showed the last dry ice thread to my fellow lab denizens and we all had a tremendous laugh. People were calling it everything from CO to NO and professing everything from asphyxiation to pulmonary edema. It would take an incredible amount of dry ice, which is CO2 (NOT CO, NOT NO, NOT LN2...etc...), to displace enough oxygen in a cabin to cause a problem. There is very little (if any) CO2 leakage from the icebox. Additionally, when I leave for a four or five-day cruise with a five to seven pound block of dry ice in my icebox, about one-third is left when I return and some food is still frozen. At the same time, most people have some sort of ventilation on their boats anyway. By the way...Doesn't everyone worry about carbon dioxide asphyxiation when the boat is closed up for the night and everyone is exhaling? Believe me...you exhale more CO2 all night long than would EVER leak out of your icebox. A wise person once said...Tis better to remain silent and be though a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. Stick to sailing, leave the science to the scientists and quit trying to scare people...sometimes you people really slay me. ...LAUGH...LAUGH...LAUGH...LAUGH! Just my two-cents (US) Now you can all fire away. But please...give me scientific fact, not fiction. Cheers, Bob
Sorry guys...I showed the last dry ice thread to my fellow lab denizens and we all had a tremendous laugh. People were calling it everything from CO to NO and professing everything from asphyxiation to pulmonary edema. It would take an incredible amount of dry ice, which is CO2 (NOT CO, NOT NO, NOT LN2...etc...), to displace enough oxygen in a cabin to cause a problem. There is very little (if any) CO2 leakage from the icebox. Additionally, when I leave for a four or five-day cruise with a five to seven pound block of dry ice in my icebox, about one-third is left when I return and some food is still frozen. At the same time, most people have some sort of ventilation on their boats anyway. By the way...Doesn't everyone worry about carbon dioxide asphyxiation when the boat is closed up for the night and everyone is exhaling? Believe me...you exhale more CO2 all night long than would EVER leak out of your icebox. A wise person once said...Tis better to remain silent and be though a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. Stick to sailing, leave the science to the scientists and quit trying to scare people...sometimes you people really slay me. ...LAUGH...LAUGH...LAUGH...LAUGH! Just my two-cents (US) Now you can all fire away. But please...give me scientific fact, not fiction. Cheers, Bob
A couple more tips...
The suggestions to freeze food and water ahead of time are good. Your stuff will also stay frozen longer if you use the two-cooler system. Keep all the deep-frozen food in one cooler, preferably the better insulated of the two. This is where you would put the dry ice, if you can get it. Open this cooler only ONCE each morning, to take out the food you need for that day. Put the frozen food you take out into the second cooler (or the icebox) on top of your drinks. Over the course of the day it will thaw and keep your drinks cold. By supper time the food should be ready for heating on the stove or grill. A few more hints: Replace the frozen food in the deep-freeze cooler with foam blocks as you take it out. An insulating blanket on top of your stuff will help keep the heat out. Close off the icebox drain so the cold melt water (and the cold air) in the icebox won't leak away into the bilge. Don't drain off the melt water unless it is starting to become a nuisance. Not only is it a sizeable cold mass, but it is also useful for other things, like washing dishes, brushing teeth, or splashing on the back of your neck to keep you awake on a long night watch. When the ice is all gone, the melt water will keep your drinks cold for at least another day or so if you are careful. Enjoy the trip. Peter S/V Raven
The suggestions to freeze food and water ahead of time are good. Your stuff will also stay frozen longer if you use the two-cooler system. Keep all the deep-frozen food in one cooler, preferably the better insulated of the two. This is where you would put the dry ice, if you can get it. Open this cooler only ONCE each morning, to take out the food you need for that day. Put the frozen food you take out into the second cooler (or the icebox) on top of your drinks. Over the course of the day it will thaw and keep your drinks cold. By supper time the food should be ready for heating on the stove or grill. A few more hints: Replace the frozen food in the deep-freeze cooler with foam blocks as you take it out. An insulating blanket on top of your stuff will help keep the heat out. Close off the icebox drain so the cold melt water (and the cold air) in the icebox won't leak away into the bilge. Don't drain off the melt water unless it is starting to become a nuisance. Not only is it a sizeable cold mass, but it is also useful for other things, like washing dishes, brushing teeth, or splashing on the back of your neck to keep you awake on a long night watch. When the ice is all gone, the melt water will keep your drinks cold for at least another day or so if you are careful. Enjoy the trip. Peter S/V Raven
Check out the archives.
Before you make a decision on the idea of using dry ice or not in your built in Ice Box check out the posts on Dry Ice. I don't think I would use it if the box is vented to the bilge regardless of what Joe Scientist said based on what I've read. YOU BE THE JUDGE.
Before you make a decision on the idea of using dry ice or not in your built in Ice Box check out the posts on Dry Ice. I don't think I would use it if the box is vented to the bilge regardless of what Joe Scientist said based on what I've read. YOU BE THE JUDGE.
Deadly carbon dioxide gas (for Bob E.)
Some years back I read about a massive eruption of carbon dioxide gas from a deep lake in the mountains near Mont Cameroon, a semi-active volcano in West Africa. Apparently, the gas had been seeping from cracks in the rock into the depths of the lake and dissolving in the water. For many years, the highly soluble CO2 remained in solution until a rock slide one night upset the equilibrium of the lake. The carbon dioxide began to bubble out of solution (like opening a pop bottle). The bubbles in the water reduced the hydrostatic pressure in the depths of the lake, causing even more effervescence. Rapid expansion of the gas reduced its temperature to near freezing. The cold gas poured out of the lake and down the slopes of the mountain into the valleys, asphyxiating hundreds of sleeping people, livestock and wildlife. By daybreak the gas had dissipated, leaving the area mysteriously littered with dead corpses. So much for CO2 being harmless. Rather than post this as a rebuttal to Bob E. and then vanish, I decided to go looking for facts, because I am NOT interested in spreading wild rumors and half-truths. A search for "carbon dioxide poisoning" at yahoo.com turned up over 8,000 hits. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself and see. Here are a few: http://helios.physics.uoguelph.ca/summer/scor/articles/scor158.htm http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html http://www.uiowa.edu/~hpo/nl/mar00-3.pdf (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader) Does this mean you shouldn't use dry ice on your boat? For you to be poisoned, you would probably have to have an airtight boat, a LOT of dry ice on board and a wide-open vent from the ice-box into the bilge. The only opening in most dry-ice boxes is the lid, which would be shut anyway. Happy sailing. Peter S/V Raven
Some years back I read about a massive eruption of carbon dioxide gas from a deep lake in the mountains near Mont Cameroon, a semi-active volcano in West Africa. Apparently, the gas had been seeping from cracks in the rock into the depths of the lake and dissolving in the water. For many years, the highly soluble CO2 remained in solution until a rock slide one night upset the equilibrium of the lake. The carbon dioxide began to bubble out of solution (like opening a pop bottle). The bubbles in the water reduced the hydrostatic pressure in the depths of the lake, causing even more effervescence. Rapid expansion of the gas reduced its temperature to near freezing. The cold gas poured out of the lake and down the slopes of the mountain into the valleys, asphyxiating hundreds of sleeping people, livestock and wildlife. By daybreak the gas had dissipated, leaving the area mysteriously littered with dead corpses. So much for CO2 being harmless. Rather than post this as a rebuttal to Bob E. and then vanish, I decided to go looking for facts, because I am NOT interested in spreading wild rumors and half-truths. A search for "carbon dioxide poisoning" at yahoo.com turned up over 8,000 hits. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself and see. Here are a few: http://helios.physics.uoguelph.ca/summer/scor/articles/scor158.htm http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html http://www.uiowa.edu/~hpo/nl/mar00-3.pdf (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader) Does this mean you shouldn't use dry ice on your boat? For you to be poisoned, you would probably have to have an airtight boat, a LOT of dry ice on board and a wide-open vent from the ice-box into the bilge. The only opening in most dry-ice boxes is the lid, which would be shut anyway. Happy sailing. Peter S/V Raven
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david
Dry Ice Plants
Since the process of photosynthesis takes carbon dioxide and sunlight and converts it to oxygen which is released and the carbon goes into growing the plant I suggest that those using dry Ice for their coolers simply grow a small rain forest on their boats. Then they can breathe sweet fresh oxygen. dave
Since the process of photosynthesis takes carbon dioxide and sunlight and converts it to oxygen which is released and the carbon goes into growing the plant I suggest that those using dry Ice for their coolers simply grow a small rain forest on their boats. Then they can breathe sweet fresh oxygen. dave
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Larry
Sorry, but the question about safety is valid
I had never considered dry ice to be unsafe, but I decided to 'run the numbers' and I have to say that the results show that it is a valid question. It has been a while since I have had a call to do these types of calculations, so I would encourage someone to check my math. The first thing I would like to stress is that carbon dioxide (CO2) is entirely different than carbon monoxide (CO). CO is extremely dangerous at VERY LOW levels. This is because your body wants to absorb CO more than it wants to absorb oxygen. Plus, once your blood absorbs CO, it is difficult to get it to release the CO so that it can absorb oxygen. That is why you can die of carbon monoxide poisoning even when there is plenty of oxygen in the air. Carbon dioxide (CO2), on the other hand, is dangerous only because it is possible to have so much CO2 in the air that it displaces the oxygen in the air. What makes CO2 potentially a problem for a boat is that CO2 is about 1 1/2 times as heavy as air. This means it will settle to the bottom of the boat. When dry ice (a solid) changes to CO2 gas it absorbs heat. This is what gives dry ice its coolness. If you tried to seal your ice box so that the CO2 could not escape your ice box would explode (which would be far more dangerous than the CO2). So an ice box is always giving off CO2 gas. Here is were you might want to start checking my math... CO2 weight is 44 gram/mole. 1 mole of gas at standard temp and pressure = 22.4 liters. This yields 1.96 gram/liter. Converting to pounds/cubic feet gives .12 lb/cubic ft. So 0.12 pounds of dry ice will yield 1 cubic foot of CO2 gas. For a 35 foot boat with an average width of 8 foot and sleeping area at 2 foot from the floor there is about 560 cubic ft. The federal government sets maximum safe levels for CO2 at 5000 parts per million. 560 cu ft x (5,000)/1,000,000) = 2.80 cubic feet of CO2 as the maximum safe level, which is 2.8 x 0.12 lb/cubic ft = 0.34 pounds So 0.34 pounds of dry ice is the maximum that can be safely used up in an unventilated boat (unventilated being the important word here). Conclusion: Dry ice is probably safe, but with a little more caution that I initially thought was needed.
I had never considered dry ice to be unsafe, but I decided to 'run the numbers' and I have to say that the results show that it is a valid question. It has been a while since I have had a call to do these types of calculations, so I would encourage someone to check my math. The first thing I would like to stress is that carbon dioxide (CO2) is entirely different than carbon monoxide (CO). CO is extremely dangerous at VERY LOW levels. This is because your body wants to absorb CO more than it wants to absorb oxygen. Plus, once your blood absorbs CO, it is difficult to get it to release the CO so that it can absorb oxygen. That is why you can die of carbon monoxide poisoning even when there is plenty of oxygen in the air. Carbon dioxide (CO2), on the other hand, is dangerous only because it is possible to have so much CO2 in the air that it displaces the oxygen in the air. What makes CO2 potentially a problem for a boat is that CO2 is about 1 1/2 times as heavy as air. This means it will settle to the bottom of the boat. When dry ice (a solid) changes to CO2 gas it absorbs heat. This is what gives dry ice its coolness. If you tried to seal your ice box so that the CO2 could not escape your ice box would explode (which would be far more dangerous than the CO2). So an ice box is always giving off CO2 gas. Here is were you might want to start checking my math... CO2 weight is 44 gram/mole. 1 mole of gas at standard temp and pressure = 22.4 liters. This yields 1.96 gram/liter. Converting to pounds/cubic feet gives .12 lb/cubic ft. So 0.12 pounds of dry ice will yield 1 cubic foot of CO2 gas. For a 35 foot boat with an average width of 8 foot and sleeping area at 2 foot from the floor there is about 560 cubic ft. The federal government sets maximum safe levels for CO2 at 5000 parts per million. 560 cu ft x (5,000)/1,000,000) = 2.80 cubic feet of CO2 as the maximum safe level, which is 2.8 x 0.12 lb/cubic ft = 0.34 pounds So 0.34 pounds of dry ice is the maximum that can be safely used up in an unventilated boat (unventilated being the important word here). Conclusion: Dry ice is probably safe, but with a little more caution that I initially thought was needed.
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Andy Falls
cool Suggestion
Fill liter bottles with fresh drinking water and freeze them. Use these bottles in your ice box for cooling. As and when they melt, use the water for drinking, cooking, etc. (Its much better than the bilgewater for brushing your teeth too)
Fill liter bottles with fresh drinking water and freeze them. Use these bottles in your ice box for cooling. As and when they melt, use the water for drinking, cooking, etc. (Its much better than the bilgewater for brushing your teeth too)
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Bob Camarena
Insulate the Top
In my Catalina 30, adding insulation to the underside of the top of the icebox made a big difference. I used 2" of blue rigid construction foam insulation board (Home Depot). I left it exposed and it seems to be holding up fine. You can check out to see if it's worthwhile by putting a pillow on top of your icebox. If it makes a difference (easy to tell since the pillow will be cold on the bottom) adding to the underside of the top of your icebox is worthwhile.
In my Catalina 30, adding insulation to the underside of the top of the icebox made a big difference. I used 2" of blue rigid construction foam insulation board (Home Depot). I left it exposed and it seems to be holding up fine. You can check out to see if it's worthwhile by putting a pillow on top of your icebox. If it makes a difference (easy to tell since the pillow will be cold on the bottom) adding to the underside of the top of your icebox is worthwhile.
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Jim McCue
G
Gloria
Block ice
When we had an ice box we'd fill cleaned milk jugs about 2/3 full with water or water bottles and put them in the cooler. Then we'd have water to drink as the ice melts. Also insulated the lid and under the shelf that made the top of the icebox. Another tip -- You know the "shields" people put on the dash of cars under the windshield to keep the sun out. We bought one at a carwash and cut it to lay across our food/ice/etc. to keep the cold in... Yes, we live in the South! G.
When we had an ice box we'd fill cleaned milk jugs about 2/3 full with water or water bottles and put them in the cooler. Then we'd have water to drink as the ice melts. Also insulated the lid and under the shelf that made the top of the icebox. Another tip -- You know the "shields" people put on the dash of cars under the windshield to keep the sun out. We bought one at a carwash and cut it to lay across our food/ice/etc. to keep the cold in... Yes, we live in the South! G.
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