Keel Material on 1978 H25

Jul 25, 2016
3
Hunter 25 Berkeley
Hello,

Sorry for the silly question. A friend of mine just bought a H25, and we are trying to see if changing the keel bolts is an easy task, or if we should just forget about it. (The keel bolts do show some signs of corrosion).

My understanding was that these were typical J studs (then replacing them would be out of the question...). However, Hunter's technical support is telling me they think it's an iron keel, with what I assume are studs simply screwed in threaded holes.

Any firsthand experience?

Thanks!
 
Jun 8, 2004
997
C&C Frigate 36 St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
Hopefully John Cherubini II will jump in here at some point, as he will know for sure... certainly the bigger Cherubini Hunters had lead keels; not sure about the H25. Interestingly, I found a few 'rust' spots on my lead keel - I think Hunter may have added bucket or two of tire weights to the melting pot!
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
My 1979 H30 is lead. If I were to bet I would think your 1978 H25 is also. I heard some years of the Cherubini's they were iron. I know solid lead is non-magnetic. Maybe test with a strong magnet?
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
I have an '83 shoal draft Cherubini 25 I am rebuilding that has lead keel. When removing the keel, two of the all thread rods began to back out as there was 3M 5200 on the threads locking the nuts firmly. I removed the two all thread rods and checked for water intrusion and corrosion and then coated with epoxy and threaded back in. 100_0416.JPG 100_0145 keel.jpg
 
Jul 25, 2016
3
Hunter 25 Berkeley
So you mean the rods were simply threaded in the lead keel? That's interesting. I thought lead was too soft to hold a threaded rod, which is why most manufacturers use J bolts to anchor the thread in the lead.
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I have an '83 shoal draft Cherubini 25 I am rebuilding that has lead keel. When removing the keel, two of the all thread rods began to back out as there was 3M 5200 on the threads locking the nuts firmly. I removed the two all thread rods and checked for water intrusion and corrosion and then coated with epoxy and threaded back in. View attachment 126345 View attachment 126346
Was there at least Helicoils (threaded inserts) in the lead for the rods to screw into?
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
So you mean the rods were simply threaded in the lead keel? That's interesting. I thought lead was too soft to hold a threaded rod, which is why most manufacturers use J bolts to anchor the thread in the lead.
I don't know if most do or did or just "many" but yes the two that came out were just all thread stainless rod. But as a side note, the keel is only 1800+ lbs yet it has 7 bolts. Sturdy I would say.
Dennis
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Kind of makes sense I guess. On a very hard grounding you would think the rods would pull away from the keel rather than trying to rip the bottom off your boat ;) My H30 has 10 or 12 bolts and has been around for 35 years. I am kind of curious if the fin keels are lead too. Maybe they used lead only on the shoal keels to maximize weight?
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
My understanding is older Hunters were always lead. Most builders have switched back and forth from lead to iron as the commodity price of lead fluctuates. I saw that somewhere in the mid 2000's Hunter began using iron again. I think Marlowe is lead again, but don't quote me on that.
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
The very problem with J bolts is that you can't remove them to inspect. If salt water leaks down into the threads you could have major corrosion going on below the surface and never know it. In theory you could have all the bolts rusted off below the surface while the tops looked fine. I prefer all thread rod. Since I had two that were compromised I elected to pull them and check. Since they were fine I trusted that the others were also. No way to know without pulling them all. However, the sealant had not been compromised so I deem them OK.
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
And finally, I doubt the rods are bored, tapped, and threaded in. They were probably molded into the molten lead to insure 100% thread engagement.
 
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kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I agree. They probably had a jig on the mold to hold the rods vertical and keep in place with maybe a little grinding to the top surface afterwards. Did the top surface looked machined?
 
Jun 4, 2004
392
Hunter 31 and 25 and fomerly 23.5 Stockton State Park Marina; MO
Kito,
Hard to tell (or remember) as I had to scrape all the old 5200 off and level the edge damage from me prying the keel loose with wedges to break the 5200 bond.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,023
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
Kind of makes sense I guess. On a very hard grounding you would think the rods would pull away from the keel rather than trying to rip the bottom off your boat ;) My H30 has 10 or 12 bolts and has been around for 35 years. I am kind of curious if the fin keels are lead too. Maybe they used lead only on the shoal keels to maximize weight?
The fin keel on my '82 H30 is definitely lead.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,023
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
To an earlier comment about rust on a lead keel, I think that is entirely possible. The lead keels are sand cast and any impurities or debris in the sand could become part of the keel. I actually discovered a small pocket of sand in mine when I tried to grind down a small bump to minimize fairing. It broke open and rusty looking brown sand poured out. Not much, less than a cubic inch, so I just filled the void with thickened epoxy. It's not hard to image the sand containing traces of iron ore. Also, if the sand is re-used for multiple castings, whatever was swept up off the shop floor with the casting sand is potentially part of the next keel.
 
Aug 17, 2016
4
Hunter 25 East Machias (beached)
I've got a 1978 H25, acquired via house foreclosure, this included. E Maine. Need manual copy?

If you are dealing with threaded stuff, I highly recommend Kano Labs (TN) KROIL, gal @ $60 plus shipping. Trade secret fopr GE turbine dis-assembly, (10 yrs and steam plus 6-8K torque usage) 4-600$ nuts, well. Exhaust manifold studs 20+ years free two applications @ 12 hrs apart.... (1973 torino experience) Hand friendly to user, also.
 
Jan 22, 2008
3
Hunter 25 Traverse City MI
I had a '77 and it's lead. I scrapped the rest of the boat, but still have the keel in my front yard, waiting for lead prices to rise a bit more. I also saved the sails and standing rigging, but not sure what I will do with those. Probably should not have bought new Doyle sails and roller furling for a POS boat. DOH!