While sailing on Barnegat Bay, I have observed boats sailing with the jib only, and other boats sailing with the main only. When the wind is cranking and I am being lazy and I know that I will have to do a lot of tacking to get to my destination, I just sail with the main, less work, more relaxation. WHAT IS the proper sail (Main or Jib) when using only one? Or does it matter due to loading on the rig etc? There is always lots of wind on Barnegat Bay, sometimes too much so maties what do you say, Main or Jib?? Bill
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I use the jib because
I'm lazy and it's easier to unfurl the jib than remove the sail cover and hoist the main. The boat sails faster with the jib than just the main but using the main is safer and easier to control in very big wind. Your results may vary if you have a small jib and fractional rig
I'm lazy and it's easier to unfurl the jib than remove the sail cover and hoist the main. The boat sails faster with the jib than just the main but using the main is safer and easier to control in very big wind. Your results may vary if you have a small jib and fractional rig
Jib v. Main
I do the same as Daryl for the very same reasons. Particularly when the kids are on board. Tom
I do the same as Daryl for the very same reasons. Particularly when the kids are on board. Tom
up wind or down?
Up wind with tacking I tend to use the main. Down wind with gybing I generally go with the jib. Pure laziness is probably at the heart of it all. My boat is a long keel classic and so this arrangemnt might not do as well with the lighter fin keelss and such.
Up wind with tacking I tend to use the main. Down wind with gybing I generally go with the jib. Pure laziness is probably at the heart of it all. My boat is a long keel classic and so this arrangemnt might not do as well with the lighter fin keelss and such.
I'll bet
I'll bet that most of the boats sailing with just the jib have roller furling and the ones sailing with just the main don't. Doubt if most care which is better, they're just doing whatever is easier for them. Ron
I'll bet that most of the boats sailing with just the jib have roller furling and the ones sailing with just the main don't. Doubt if most care which is better, they're just doing whatever is easier for them. Ron
Main
If one is up, it is the main. The main for me is the first up and the last down. The main is the workhorse sail and I thought it was supposed to be the only thing up if you have only one sail up. But, I guess that is not true if in really heavy weather with only a storm jib up...
If one is up, it is the main. The main for me is the first up and the last down. The main is the workhorse sail and I thought it was supposed to be the only thing up if you have only one sail up. But, I guess that is not true if in really heavy weather with only a storm jib up...
Main only for me
I learned on a dinghy with a single sail and sailed that way for 13 years. Then I bought a bigger dinghy with a sloop rig, and when the wind piped up I doused the jib and sailed under main only. My current boat has a fractional rig with a large main and hank-on headsails, so the main wins again. My instructor for three ASA schools was adamant about the main being the first sail to go up and the last to come down. His logic was that the main was the easiest sail to trim and keep under control. He owned a masthead cutter with roller furling headsails that he had singlehanded across the Atlantic eight times. I didn't need any more proof. Peter H23 "Raven"
I learned on a dinghy with a single sail and sailed that way for 13 years. Then I bought a bigger dinghy with a sloop rig, and when the wind piped up I doused the jib and sailed under main only. My current boat has a fractional rig with a large main and hank-on headsails, so the main wins again. My instructor for three ASA schools was adamant about the main being the first sail to go up and the last to come down. His logic was that the main was the easiest sail to trim and keep under control. He owned a masthead cutter with roller furling headsails that he had singlehanded across the Atlantic eight times. I didn't need any more proof. Peter H23 "Raven"
Storm jib, for Jared
Under those conditions, wouldn't the main also be replaced by a storm trysail? Peter H23 "Raven"
Under those conditions, wouldn't the main also be replaced by a storm trysail? Peter H23 "Raven"
Reef both
To keep the helm balanced, and the boat controllable, reef both the main and the jib. If you are really out in winds above fully reefing both, then you need a storm jib, and a trysail. If that is too much sail, then the trysail on the mast gets the nod. Many of us have gennies that are to big to reef easily - that means a smaller (90 to 110) jib should be hoisted instead on windy days. I have no problem with folks who take an easier solution - but we need to understand that sailing with only one sail increases the risk to the rig. I think the main alone results in less stress than the jib alone, because the forces at the luff of the sail are spread along the length of the mast where the lowers can help, while the jib focuses the upper load on the top stays. All IMHO, of course. David Lady Lillie
To keep the helm balanced, and the boat controllable, reef both the main and the jib. If you are really out in winds above fully reefing both, then you need a storm jib, and a trysail. If that is too much sail, then the trysail on the mast gets the nod. Many of us have gennies that are to big to reef easily - that means a smaller (90 to 110) jib should be hoisted instead on windy days. I have no problem with folks who take an easier solution - but we need to understand that sailing with only one sail increases the risk to the rig. I think the main alone results in less stress than the jib alone, because the forces at the luff of the sail are spread along the length of the mast where the lowers can help, while the jib focuses the upper load on the top stays. All IMHO, of course. David Lady Lillie
If Only One - Boat's Choice
It depends on your boat. If the main is the driving sail, like on, say, Hunter's, use that. Our Catalinas are usually jib driven. Try this: go out one day and run on one sail, determine your best pointing and speed, then try the same thing with your other sail. Your boat, your choice. Stu
It depends on your boat. If the main is the driving sail, like on, say, Hunter's, use that. Our Catalinas are usually jib driven. Try this: go out one day and run on one sail, determine your best pointing and speed, then try the same thing with your other sail. Your boat, your choice. Stu
Stu's Response
Stu's response (as is typical) was right on. I don't care how many races a guy may have won, or what someone else's experience is with their boat, I know MY boat. When I put up the mainsail, it is very unresponsive when trying to tack. On a beam reach, if I try any turn, gybing or tacking, it "slides" to the leeward side, sometimes to the point that I can't make the turn. On the other hand, if I go with the jib alone, the boat is responsive, sails faster, and I'm much more in control. My boat is a 1976 O'Day 25, with a full masthead jib. Your results almost certainly will be different. The real truth is the harder truth, that the boat sails better (more balanced) with a reefed main, and a smaller jib (mine are hank-on, so I don't reef the jib). Also, when we sail, the gib almost always goes up first, so we can get underway without the outboard quicker. Again, it sails smoother, and faster with the jib up, and more in control, making raising the main easier.
Stu's response (as is typical) was right on. I don't care how many races a guy may have won, or what someone else's experience is with their boat, I know MY boat. When I put up the mainsail, it is very unresponsive when trying to tack. On a beam reach, if I try any turn, gybing or tacking, it "slides" to the leeward side, sometimes to the point that I can't make the turn. On the other hand, if I go with the jib alone, the boat is responsive, sails faster, and I'm much more in control. My boat is a 1976 O'Day 25, with a full masthead jib. Your results almost certainly will be different. The real truth is the harder truth, that the boat sails better (more balanced) with a reefed main, and a smaller jib (mine are hank-on, so I don't reef the jib). Also, when we sail, the gib almost always goes up first, so we can get underway without the outboard quicker. Again, it sails smoother, and faster with the jib up, and more in control, making raising the main easier.
Trysail
Yeah, I guess you are right - a trysail would be up too. But, I am just talking because I have never been in conditions to warrent it, don't own a storm jib or trysail, just read a lot... I am an armchair sailor when it comes to stuff like that. With my main only up, I can't point worth a darn and the boat doesn't want to accelerate worth a darn, but I guess in that case you don't care too much about either.
Yeah, I guess you are right - a trysail would be up too. But, I am just talking because I have never been in conditions to warrent it, don't own a storm jib or trysail, just read a lot... I am an armchair sailor when it comes to stuff like that. With my main only up, I can't point worth a darn and the boat doesn't want to accelerate worth a darn, but I guess in that case you don't care too much about either.
Jib or Main
You didn't say what kind of boat you have...it does make a difference. I read (can't remember where) that if your lower shrouds are not aft of the mast you put undue strain on the rig with just the jib. I also read somewhere that with a fractional rig it was not good to sail with just jib. Having said all that I hav a fractional rig Legend 35.5 that I sail on Barnegat Bay. On various occassions I went with just jib while on others just main. I found that the boat sails better, faster and is more controlable with just jib. However, god forbid it should ever get backwinded if pinching. You will have to do a 360 to get back on course.
You didn't say what kind of boat you have...it does make a difference. I read (can't remember where) that if your lower shrouds are not aft of the mast you put undue strain on the rig with just the jib. I also read somewhere that with a fractional rig it was not good to sail with just jib. Having said all that I hav a fractional rig Legend 35.5 that I sail on Barnegat Bay. On various occassions I went with just jib while on others just main. I found that the boat sails better, faster and is more controlable with just jib. However, god forbid it should ever get backwinded if pinching. You will have to do a 360 to get back on course.
Pat, I sail a Catalina 27
Pat, I sail a C27, 1985. The jib was a laper cut to become a jib for my roller furler. The sail is small. When sailing close hauled, I can set the main to spill a lot of air and have a very comfortable 3-4knt sail back to the slip. Just the slightest brake tension on the wheel, and the boat will hold course just like it was on autopilot. The winches are positioned forward of the wheel, and with the small cockpit it sometimes takes a contortionist to move about while tacking. (Climbing over the crew lounging in the cockpit.) Hence Main up traveler down and let the mainsail handling gods do the work. Pat, This is my second season in the bay, I could sure use some local knowledge, places to go, things to see, restaurants to sail to. If you are willing to give some input please email me at owsi@snip.net. Bill
Pat, I sail a C27, 1985. The jib was a laper cut to become a jib for my roller furler. The sail is small. When sailing close hauled, I can set the main to spill a lot of air and have a very comfortable 3-4knt sail back to the slip. Just the slightest brake tension on the wheel, and the boat will hold course just like it was on autopilot. The winches are positioned forward of the wheel, and with the small cockpit it sometimes takes a contortionist to move about while tacking. (Climbing over the crew lounging in the cockpit.) Hence Main up traveler down and let the mainsail handling gods do the work. Pat, This is my second season in the bay, I could sure use some local knowledge, places to go, things to see, restaurants to sail to. If you are willing to give some input please email me at owsi@snip.net. Bill
Barnegat Bay Sailing
Bill, Barnegat Bay sailing is unique in that you often (most every day) have a lot of wind. This is due to the way the bay thermals. 25 - 30K is not out of the ordinary. Because the bay is shallow, the waves do not get the chance to build into dangerous heights. Therefore, sailing in those winds is "fun" if your boat is set up for the conditions. I tell people who are new to sailing to go out in the morning, before the land heats up and the wind is light, and make absolutely certain you know how to reef your sails. This is another of the many reasons that you will see boats with one sail drawing. Because of the short 3-4 foot waves you can controll the boat with just one sail, AND....it makes life a lot easier and the crew more comfortable. Setting your main to "spill a lot of air" is a technique seen regularly on the bay, and it works fine. My own preference is different, but so is my boat. It sounds to me like your doing just fine. When you feel like trying other options, and the crew is OK with the idea of experimentating, you can incorporate some of the methods touched upon in this thread, as well as other techniques. As far as the cruising aspect to Barnegat Bay in concerned, things get very limited. There are very few real anchorages, and very few "places to go". A lot of people seem to come to The Captain's Inn on Forked River which has OK food and a nice setting with a few slips available if you get there early. Tice shoal is a popular but very exposed anchorage that allows access, with dinghy, to Island Beach State Park's beautiful ocean beach. If you plan to take a cruise outside the bay it's an all day event. It takes an hour or more to get to the inlet unless you've anchored the night before at the lighthouse, then you have an all day motor-sail to Cape May or the Atlantic Highlands. Atlantic City is closer but Trump has raised the slip fees to an outragious $4.00 per foot. This has also had a negative effect on transient fees up and down the Jersey coast. At any rate look for "Flying Colors" in the bay and feel free to contact me at: captainpat355@verizon.net for other possibilities in the bay and Toms River area. Good Luck, Pat
Bill, Barnegat Bay sailing is unique in that you often (most every day) have a lot of wind. This is due to the way the bay thermals. 25 - 30K is not out of the ordinary. Because the bay is shallow, the waves do not get the chance to build into dangerous heights. Therefore, sailing in those winds is "fun" if your boat is set up for the conditions. I tell people who are new to sailing to go out in the morning, before the land heats up and the wind is light, and make absolutely certain you know how to reef your sails. This is another of the many reasons that you will see boats with one sail drawing. Because of the short 3-4 foot waves you can controll the boat with just one sail, AND....it makes life a lot easier and the crew more comfortable. Setting your main to "spill a lot of air" is a technique seen regularly on the bay, and it works fine. My own preference is different, but so is my boat. It sounds to me like your doing just fine. When you feel like trying other options, and the crew is OK with the idea of experimentating, you can incorporate some of the methods touched upon in this thread, as well as other techniques. As far as the cruising aspect to Barnegat Bay in concerned, things get very limited. There are very few real anchorages, and very few "places to go". A lot of people seem to come to The Captain's Inn on Forked River which has OK food and a nice setting with a few slips available if you get there early. Tice shoal is a popular but very exposed anchorage that allows access, with dinghy, to Island Beach State Park's beautiful ocean beach. If you plan to take a cruise outside the bay it's an all day event. It takes an hour or more to get to the inlet unless you've anchored the night before at the lighthouse, then you have an all day motor-sail to Cape May or the Atlantic Highlands. Atlantic City is closer but Trump has raised the slip fees to an outragious $4.00 per foot. This has also had a negative effect on transient fees up and down the Jersey coast. At any rate look for "Flying Colors" in the bay and feel free to contact me at: captainpat355@verizon.net for other possibilities in the bay and Toms River area. Good Luck, Pat
Pat, thanks for the response
Pat, thanks for the reply, I was hopeing that there would be more to do here on the bay. We were going to try the Captains Inn this weekend. Have had this boat about 6 years. Have sailed from Warton Creek Md to Ocean City NJ, Ocean City to Cape May,and back and finially Ocean City to our present home on the Bay. Been there 2 seasons. Sailed to Tices Shoal a couple of times but never anchored, no dink, so just sailed back. Have not been through Barnegat Inlet yet, but looking at the tide and currents, I guess slack tide with the wind blowing from the west would keep the rollers down. But I have heard it can be nasty any time. The 8' beam on the C27 does not take to big sport fisherman wakes very well. Thanks again for your reply, may see you on the bay sometime. Bill
Pat, thanks for the reply, I was hopeing that there would be more to do here on the bay. We were going to try the Captains Inn this weekend. Have had this boat about 6 years. Have sailed from Warton Creek Md to Ocean City NJ, Ocean City to Cape May,and back and finially Ocean City to our present home on the Bay. Been there 2 seasons. Sailed to Tices Shoal a couple of times but never anchored, no dink, so just sailed back. Have not been through Barnegat Inlet yet, but looking at the tide and currents, I guess slack tide with the wind blowing from the west would keep the rollers down. But I have heard it can be nasty any time. The 8' beam on the C27 does not take to big sport fisherman wakes very well. Thanks again for your reply, may see you on the bay sometime. Bill
Jib or main when sailing with only one sail
Bill: Here's what I do together with the reasons, which may not apply to everyone. To me it depends on the type of sail boat - either mast head or fractional. The only reason I would sail with only one sail is to reduce power and control the boat. In all other situations, I sail with both the main and jib because both sails balance the boat and make it easier to control. I personally don't like fighting an overpowered boat, which is exactly what happens when you pick the wrong single sail - in my mind anyway. So, the engine of a masthead rig is the jib and therefore I would sail with the main. With a fractional rig, the engine is the main therefore I would sail with the jib. Personally, I would not single sail either rig with the opposite sail (sail a masthead with the jib) to what I mentioned above BUT I see people doing it all the time. Sometimes I have the opportunity to meet them at the dock or YC and I casually ask them why the set the sail they did. I don't ask in a condesending way but because I truly want to learn something I perhaps didn't think of or know. So far the answers I've received from some of my dock neighbors (some have no answer) make no sense to me from a sail trim standpoint but I guess they are happy and really that is all that counts because the bottom line is that as skipper he is the master of his craft and the final arbiter as to what specific decision is to be made at a specific time in specific conditions. With that in mind, if a mate likes sailing a masthead rig with the jib or a fractional with the main only, it's OK with me. My only final thought is a bloke should have a reason for the sail combination he is using. If he can't think of one he can use mine. I don't think he'll go to far wrong.
Bill: Here's what I do together with the reasons, which may not apply to everyone. To me it depends on the type of sail boat - either mast head or fractional. The only reason I would sail with only one sail is to reduce power and control the boat. In all other situations, I sail with both the main and jib because both sails balance the boat and make it easier to control. I personally don't like fighting an overpowered boat, which is exactly what happens when you pick the wrong single sail - in my mind anyway. So, the engine of a masthead rig is the jib and therefore I would sail with the main. With a fractional rig, the engine is the main therefore I would sail with the jib. Personally, I would not single sail either rig with the opposite sail (sail a masthead with the jib) to what I mentioned above BUT I see people doing it all the time. Sometimes I have the opportunity to meet them at the dock or YC and I casually ask them why the set the sail they did. I don't ask in a condesending way but because I truly want to learn something I perhaps didn't think of or know. So far the answers I've received from some of my dock neighbors (some have no answer) make no sense to me from a sail trim standpoint but I guess they are happy and really that is all that counts because the bottom line is that as skipper he is the master of his craft and the final arbiter as to what specific decision is to be made at a specific time in specific conditions. With that in mind, if a mate likes sailing a masthead rig with the jib or a fractional with the main only, it's OK with me. My only final thought is a bloke should have a reason for the sail combination he is using. If he can't think of one he can use mine. I don't think he'll go to far wrong.
I have sailed the bay for 15
years, What I do on our H34 is this, early in the day Both main and jib, over 15 knots, jib and reefed main, over 20, jib alone. With a C27, or any small boat,Check the tide, and go out the inlet in the morning, Sunday before 10AM or a weekday, a great comfort factor as most powerboaters are still sleeping. Another nice trip is North on the NJ intercoastal, several bridges to open, but a better inlet at Manasquan or nice anchorages in Tom's River, Silver Bay or the Meteteconk River. or South to Beach Haven and Morrison's Resturant. Have a great summer, our boat is Fifty-Fifty we will wave as we go by!!
years, What I do on our H34 is this, early in the day Both main and jib, over 15 knots, jib and reefed main, over 20, jib alone. With a C27, or any small boat,Check the tide, and go out the inlet in the morning, Sunday before 10AM or a weekday, a great comfort factor as most powerboaters are still sleeping. Another nice trip is North on the NJ intercoastal, several bridges to open, but a better inlet at Manasquan or nice anchorages in Tom's River, Silver Bay or the Meteteconk River. or South to Beach Haven and Morrison's Resturant. Have a great summer, our boat is Fifty-Fifty we will wave as we go by!!
Got beat up once in the Cape May Canal
got caught by the sportfisherman heading back to the Canyon Club. Sad to say but there was no respect for our 27 going all out at 4 kts under power. Looks like one has to motor most of the way down to Morrisons, How long does the trip take from Forked River? We will wave to you as we pass you by. Bill "LOOSE ENDS"
got caught by the sportfisherman heading back to the Canyon Club. Sad to say but there was no respect for our 27 going all out at 4 kts under power. Looks like one has to motor most of the way down to Morrisons, How long does the trip take from Forked River? We will wave to you as we pass you by. Bill "LOOSE ENDS"
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