Looks like PHRF's days are numbered (thank goodness!!). The system that they have been using across the pond is IRC. Boats will be measured, not to the extent of IMS, and the numbers plugged into the IRC formula. The rating that emerges will be given to ALL boats in the US. This means that your rating in SF is the same as NY or Fl or Tx. Best of all, nobody has access to the formula. If you modify your boat you will not be able to predict the rating change. Therefore designers will not be able to tailor their designs to the rule. US Sailing has already decided to join the program. Next year, many clubs will be using this system. By '06 everyone is expected to be onboard with it. Personally I can't wait!!
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What's good about it?
If I can't verify the formula because its secret, Why should I trust it to be accurate? If someone modifies their boat to an advantage, how would I ever know? Sounds like NASCAR, where they make up the rules as the corporation sees fit. I want a system that's published.
If I can't verify the formula because its secret, Why should I trust it to be accurate? If someone modifies their boat to an advantage, how would I ever know? Sounds like NASCAR, where they make up the rules as the corporation sees fit. I want a system that's published.
While I agree that PHRF has it's draw backs, it was all the rage when originally introduced. Have IRC ratings been around long enough and used in enough Ragattas with very diverse boat designs and sailing conditions to indicate that it is superior? Hopefully IRC will prove to be an improvement and fair to all designs in the extremely difficult equision of predicting performance in all kinds of conditions. But I doubt it. Guess we will see.
this deal makes no sense to me either
Why would you want a heavy air boat to rate the same in florida or california. In california they win and in florida they loose. With this system i would have to move or sell my boat to someone else so i could buy one with a better light air performance. And whats the big secret thing. I dont want a system that wont let me see the numbers. To many professional cheaters for that to work here. Or maybe i will reconcider- I will volunteer to be the rater!
Why would you want a heavy air boat to rate the same in florida or california. In california they win and in florida they loose. With this system i would have to move or sell my boat to someone else so i could buy one with a better light air performance. And whats the big secret thing. I dont want a system that wont let me see the numbers. To many professional cheaters for that to work here. Or maybe i will reconcider- I will volunteer to be the rater!
IRC
The UK-originated, Europe-based IRC, is now a designated ISAF international rule. It has already been used in the States by the St Francis YC in the 2004 Big Boat Series and will be used at the 2005 Key West Race Week, NYYC Rolex Transatlantic Challenge and Block Island Race Week. PHRF has been so full of rating errors that many well sailed boats with high ratings have no chance to beat a poorly sailed ULDB. When was the last time that a boat rating 190 beat a boat rating 90?? IRC is making the attempt to fix this. The rating system is suposed to level the playing field for skipper and crew without regard for the boat sailed. A well sailed boat should be able to beat any not so well sailed boat without regard to the boats design. ....we just wait and see how this shakes out.
The UK-originated, Europe-based IRC, is now a designated ISAF international rule. It has already been used in the States by the St Francis YC in the 2004 Big Boat Series and will be used at the 2005 Key West Race Week, NYYC Rolex Transatlantic Challenge and Block Island Race Week. PHRF has been so full of rating errors that many well sailed boats with high ratings have no chance to beat a poorly sailed ULDB. When was the last time that a boat rating 190 beat a boat rating 90?? IRC is making the attempt to fix this. The rating system is suposed to level the playing field for skipper and crew without regard for the boat sailed. A well sailed boat should be able to beat any not so well sailed boat without regard to the boats design. ....we just wait and see how this shakes out.
Secret formula?
That'll never work. Even an amateur mathematician will be able to reverse engineer that with a few samples of computational results from a group of boats. I'd consider it a challenge. They'd be better to publish the formula and allow everyone to comment on its fairness.
That'll never work. Even an amateur mathematician will be able to reverse engineer that with a few samples of computational results from a group of boats. I'd consider it a challenge. They'd be better to publish the formula and allow everyone to comment on its fairness.
How will it work??
One of the reasons I sold my much loved Tripp 26 was that we could not win with it. We were thrown in the same fleet racing even up against a Cal 40. We would just get water lined and it would be over. In KWRW and other parts of the country they were giving the boat a 120 rateing while we had a 108 on Lake Erie. It just made it tough to compete. SO how will this new system work? Cliff
One of the reasons I sold my much loved Tripp 26 was that we could not win with it. We were thrown in the same fleet racing even up against a Cal 40. We would just get water lined and it would be over. In KWRW and other parts of the country they were giving the boat a 120 rateing while we had a 108 on Lake Erie. It just made it tough to compete. SO how will this new system work? Cliff
Cliff
I'm no expert on this subject, just know what I've been reading about it. It will work similar to the old IOR rule but without regard for different wind speeds. The major difference is that designers would taylor their designs to the IOR rule. Because the IRC formula is not available the designers don't know which way to tweek the numbers. Is it fair?? ...who knows??... but it seems to me it's worth a shot, especially seeing that they've been using it in Europe for a few years and that PHRF obviously doesn't work fairly. It also takes the 'politics' out of the local rating committees hands. Each rating of each design comes from the world wide rating formula...there is no fudge factor.
I'm no expert on this subject, just know what I've been reading about it. It will work similar to the old IOR rule but without regard for different wind speeds. The major difference is that designers would taylor their designs to the IOR rule. Because the IRC formula is not available the designers don't know which way to tweek the numbers. Is it fair?? ...who knows??... but it seems to me it's worth a shot, especially seeing that they've been using it in Europe for a few years and that PHRF obviously doesn't work fairly. It also takes the 'politics' out of the local rating committees hands. Each rating of each design comes from the world wide rating formula...there is no fudge factor.
Alan
I talked with my good friend who is on our PHRF Committe on Lake Erie and he is real sure that this new system will not replace our PHRF System. He said ther might be come boats that want to race in this with this system but it will not be taking the place of PHRF for us. Cliff
I talked with my good friend who is on our PHRF Committe on Lake Erie and he is real sure that this new system will not replace our PHRF System. He said ther might be come boats that want to race in this with this system but it will not be taking the place of PHRF for us. Cliff
PHRF It Is
The December/January issue of Sailing World has an article discussing the IRC rule used in the S.F. Big Boat Series. All competitors that sailed under this rule thought it worked ok. There was a problem with the VPP in that the scoring thought it was a light air race do to finish times when in fact the race course was against tidel flow. The article goes on to say that IRC does not do a very good job with on rating the very diverse gpoup of boats normally found in each areas local PHRF fleets. The program just can't come up with a with a way to measure out each boat fairly. Incidently, currently the program is dependant on the person who designed the IRC program to make it work. Bottom line is, IRC will probably be used in major regattas such as Block Island, Key West and events sponsored by the Storm Try Sail Club or New York Yacht Club for certain boats only. PHRF is the most widely used formula world wide for rating the Cruiser/Racer type of boats and will continue to be the way that your and my boat is rated. IRC ratings wil not be an option for us.
The December/January issue of Sailing World has an article discussing the IRC rule used in the S.F. Big Boat Series. All competitors that sailed under this rule thought it worked ok. There was a problem with the VPP in that the scoring thought it was a light air race do to finish times when in fact the race course was against tidel flow. The article goes on to say that IRC does not do a very good job with on rating the very diverse gpoup of boats normally found in each areas local PHRF fleets. The program just can't come up with a with a way to measure out each boat fairly. Incidently, currently the program is dependant on the person who designed the IRC program to make it work. Bottom line is, IRC will probably be used in major regattas such as Block Island, Key West and events sponsored by the Storm Try Sail Club or New York Yacht Club for certain boats only. PHRF is the most widely used formula world wide for rating the Cruiser/Racer type of boats and will continue to be the way that your and my boat is rated. IRC ratings wil not be an option for us.
More facts
IRC is a derivative of the old Channel Handicap System which is a VPP based rule. The VPP is secret and more importantly adjusted arbitrarily every year by a committee of the RORC.Since IRC uses a one number time on time coefficient there definitely will be a horse for courses aspect to it. There are 6,000 IRC certificates worldwide as opposed to 20,000 PHRF certificates. Cost is reportedly $40 for the first year + $4.00 per boat foot. Subsequent years are priced at $4.00/ft. Rating appeals are non-existent. The fees quoted are for a club handicap certificate. Endorsed handicaps require full measurement by an authorized measurer and include actually weighing the boat. Full measurements will likely cost between $400 and $1,000! If you are in a small PHRF fleet IRC will eliminate some of the local bias. If you have a custom boat or a boat with a lot of modifications, an IRC certifcate will give you more scientific rating. Racing of disparate boat types will still be problematical and the major drawback is that if you have a boat that does not perform well in the local prevailing conditions you are stuck with it. You can optimize your boat which could improve your speed versus rating hits by making modifications to you rudder, keel, and rigging which can add up to a lot of dollars to become competitive. Additionally the VPP program in IRC does have some holes in it. Bottom line unless you are racing at the Grand PRIX level it probably is not much of a bang for the buck for the rest of us.
IRC is a derivative of the old Channel Handicap System which is a VPP based rule. The VPP is secret and more importantly adjusted arbitrarily every year by a committee of the RORC.Since IRC uses a one number time on time coefficient there definitely will be a horse for courses aspect to it. There are 6,000 IRC certificates worldwide as opposed to 20,000 PHRF certificates. Cost is reportedly $40 for the first year + $4.00 per boat foot. Subsequent years are priced at $4.00/ft. Rating appeals are non-existent. The fees quoted are for a club handicap certificate. Endorsed handicaps require full measurement by an authorized measurer and include actually weighing the boat. Full measurements will likely cost between $400 and $1,000! If you are in a small PHRF fleet IRC will eliminate some of the local bias. If you have a custom boat or a boat with a lot of modifications, an IRC certifcate will give you more scientific rating. Racing of disparate boat types will still be problematical and the major drawback is that if you have a boat that does not perform well in the local prevailing conditions you are stuck with it. You can optimize your boat which could improve your speed versus rating hits by making modifications to you rudder, keel, and rigging which can add up to a lot of dollars to become competitive. Additionally the VPP program in IRC does have some holes in it. Bottom line unless you are racing at the Grand PRIX level it probably is not much of a bang for the buck for the rest of us.
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