Internal halyards ?

Jan 23, 2015
92
catalina catalina22 Trailer
Hey guys , My C22 still have the wire to rope halyards. I would like to convert over to rope halyards. CD has external all roped conversions as well as internal. What is the advantage of the internal all rope halyards vs the External system. Secondly has anyone know where to buy a halyard to cockpit kit or hardware cheaper without breaking the bank with CD prices(OMG!)? Thank you ..Don
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Internal halyards will clank inside your mast at night instead of outside :)

Actually, I've never had anything but external, so I can't comment intelligently on the pros and cons. Running internal halyards would be a somewhat bigger project. Do note that if your other mast hardware is attached with sheet metal or self-tapping screws, there are sharp points inside the mast that can snag or chafe halyards. Machine screws or rivets are much preferred, but you might want to consider that if you don't want to also tackle reattaching spreader mounts, lights, blocks, cleats, or anything else attached to your mast.

Re: halyards-to-cockpit hardware. I used Spinlock T38s. A couple pictures at Sailing and restoring #9874. They're simple and well made and (somewhat) cheaper than the CD price For 1/4" halyards, you could probably use T25s; if you want 5/16", I think you'd want the 38s (which also work nicely with my 1/4" lines).

You probably do have to replace the masthead sheaves; CD's price seems excessive, but I didn't find another source for sheaves of the right dimensions when I did mine (perhaps someone else will chime in on that).

You might already have some blocks you can use at the mast base; if not, you can often find sale prices or random blocks on eBay. And decide what sort of lines you want - the advantage to the wire-to-rope system is that the wire is really low stretch (and when the sails are raised, nearly all the halyard is wire. So when you replace them, you might want to consider low-stretch line. You'll find lots of opinions on line choices in the SBO archives. I used 5/32" dyneema (for stretch), covered with the cover from Sta-Set (same as the furling line I described at Sailing and restoring #9874). We've been very happy with that system, but you have to like doing a little splicing.

Stainless hardware (from boltdepot.com or McMaster-carr) and Bed-it butyl tape should complete your kit. Overall, you might not beat CD's price by a lot by assembling your own kit, but you can get better parts for a comparable price.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
That's exactly right. Internal halyards bang on the inside of the mast, external on the outside. Inside can be like a bell in the cabin. But if you don't sleep there - so what. Internal halyards look better - I'm hard pressed to find a better reason to use them. Maybe UV damage but that's dubious. If you internalize the halyards make sure the exit plate is high enough so that crew raising each sail can reach up high enough to use their body weight and long muscles to hoist. There's not much worse than having to hoist a halyard from just above your head to your waist - very bad.
You should change the sheaves. Vee shaped for wire can jam with cordage. You want U shaped correctly sized for the line you use.
I favor a mast plate deck organizer over putting more holes in the deck for turning blocks or just blocks. I question the wisdom of bringing the halyards back to the cockpit on a 22' boat. They are cleaner and more efficient (Easier to use) at the mast. All those holes in the deck have a cost in terms of potential core damage and dollars for hardware. I've sailed a lot on a 23' Seafarer and it is no problem to stand at the mast, with the mast and shroud easy handholds and hoist the sail. If that sail wasn't up in 5 seconds I was dogging it.
 
Jan 23, 2015
92
catalina catalina22 Trailer
wow thanks guys for all this great info I will do some more shopping but external seems to be the way I want to go. appreciate all the help...Don
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
I see no real advantage to internal. I did switch from wire to 8mm rope external on our 84, found the sheaves online, same as those used in electronics and much less $$$ (sorry can't recall the source). Ordered halyards long enough to run aft thru deck organizers and clutches (if I ever get around to it)....used Stingy's formulation....fwiw...
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
PS - Having said that, if I had external halyards, I don't think I would bother retrofitting to internal. While I do prefer internal, I doubt it would ever rise to the top of my to-do list. The only advantages I can think of are a cleaner look, and ease of silencing them at night.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,523
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
15 years ago, we replaced our wire to line main halyard with a kit from WM. No need to change block at masthead, or change/replace winches, fairleads, etc. We did get lines long enough to lead back to the cockpit on our h27 the next year. No need to go up to the masthead. It was easy to add a halyard when we bought our cruising spinnaker. Halyard slap is easily and quickly controlled with shock cords. Troubleshooting any issue with halyards is much easier with them on the outside.

no issues or maintenance over the past 15 years.
 
Jan 24, 2017
666
Hunter 34 Toms River Nj
Little breeze,
I have had internal halyards for 35 plus years, never once had clanking inside the mast. The clanking comes from lose halyards with no tension on them. I hear more clanking from external then internal. Bottom line is, if you keep your halyards tidy they will not clank.
I don't know of any advantage of external halyards vs internal.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I think, as far as halyard slap goes, when the sail is furled, half the halyard is usually on the outside anyhow. Just clip it to the lifelines or the sheet block, when not in use.

I mostly agree with Gene. Any advantage to internal halyards that I can think of wouldn't be worth the time. Although, it not only looks cleaner, it also offers less opportunity for fouling with structures aloft.

Here's a link to another thread discussing the mast step organizer for running lines to your cockpit.
Mast Step Plate Organizer

-Will (Dragonfly)
 

greg_m

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May 23, 2017
692
Catalina Jaguar 22 Simons Town
my five cents... internal halyards need exit holes... more holes is never a good thing. On the L26 we have internal halyards and the mast is keel stepped. Horrible for water ingress into the boat. We had a mainsail halyard part and the broken end fell down inside the mast while the loose end fell down with the mainsail. Result...

trying to get to the top of the mast to feed the new halyard down, trying to get it to go past the bolts and screws for the spreaders and other fittings, hoping it does not get wrapped around the other internal halyards on the way down, then trying to fish it out the mast through the exit slot. All a ball ache for sure but do-able. Somehow a bit of cursing always helps!

Of course the C22 mast can be easily lowered to do the job in comfort of ground level.

In terms of halyard slapping, the only time I hear it is when the halyards are slack which is very seldom or when the wind blows and catches the external part of the internal halyard when not in use and secured to the mast somewhere.

From an aesthetics point of view is the only reason to have internal halyards that I can think of as well.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
It would add a little weight to the mast, but everything could be made easier with internal halyard conduits installed. Maybe make them from light weight plastic tubing. Feed the ends out of the holes and heat flair them to fix them in place. The same goes for aluminum conduit.

I've not heard of such a thing, but imagine how easy it would be feeding a new halyard into place. Same for nav light wires. Halyard slap? I don't know what you're talking about.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I was only saying, internal halyard conduits would completely eliminate the possibility of internal halyard slap. But, I get your point :laugh:.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 23, 2015
92
catalina catalina22 Trailer
Im looking for a good source to by rope since you guys gave me the info. For Halyard lines jib and main, is CD fair with their price? Since Im converting to rope from rope/wire they have the kit rope with sheaves for 166 $. Is that a reasonable Price or would I be better of with another source that will be cheaper? Just from searching a bit I find rope on ebay but the sheaves of thie size ,1/4 x 1 1/2 dia I was having difficulty finding...appreciate....Don
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
That might be too cheap. Figuring a 45’ mast you need 90’ just up and down. Subtract any splices, shackles and sheaves you are approaching a bit over $1 per foot of cordage. I’m not sure the high quality cordage can be had for that price. You should find out exactly what you are getting.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Ahhh, I scrolled back and see you have a 22’ boat. I would still check on what you are getting. A halyard is not just a halyard. It needs to be very low stretch, I’ve tolerant and should turn through blocks easily ...
 
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