I need help

Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
Ok so here is the question and it has probably been answered so asking forgiveness in advance.
the boat is new to me and a hunter 376. It has developed the dreaded sewer smell quite suddenly. The boat is a 97 so I’m sure it’s in desperate need to have everything replaced.
my plan here is simple, or so I thought.
1 - replace the toilet
2- replace the lines (all of them )
3- replace the vent line
4- replace the macerator pump

here is my issue …. After a week of trying to figure this out I can’t see where the bloody black water pipe is! I can see it go through the wall next to the toilet then the next place I can find it is at the tank. How would I get it out and then a new one in? That’s like a 12-13 foot run of hose

help please !
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
part two… according to the manual it looks like it runs behind the chair, closet locker and cabinets. If they need to come out does anyone have experience as to how? Can’t seem to find any attachment points to them except for the chair.
man I have never felt like a newb as much as I do right now that’s for sure
 
Feb 14, 2014
5,785
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Just a quick suggestion...

You need to find out the reason for smell before you replace everything.

Step by step testing.
Jim...
 
Sep 25, 2008
6,353
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
1 - replace the toilet
2- replace the lines (all of them )
3- replace the vent line
4- replace the macerator pump
can’t help with access but it’s likely neither the vent or the macerated but more likely either the plumbing lines or the tank itself (leaking) particularly if it’s the original.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,235
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
Just a quick suggestion...

You need to find out the reason for smell before you replace everything.

Step by step testing.
Jim...
Absolutely. The fact that it came up suddenly seems to imply that it is not the fault of all of those different components.

For example, are you sure you don't have something stuck in the intake line or in the rim of the bowl?
Do you flush with sea water? If so do you do a final flush with fresh water before leaving the boat?
 
Feb 14, 2014
5,785
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
From your manual...

Hunter_356_15612570.jpg


Questions...
1) Is your hold tank Empty?
2) Is the Hold Tank Vent open?
3) Does your macerator run?
4) When was the last time the Head was used?

Jim...
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
Thanks for all the help and I’ll answer a few of the questions ;
the diagram for the 356 is laid out different Thant the 376. On the 376 it runs on the outside against the hull
2- Great Lakes, fresh water
3- the intake flows 100% fine, lots of water comes through
4- very likely one of the problems is in fact the vent and if you continually flush water through it will quickly slow down. Usually meaning the air in the tank has no place to go as the vent is plugged someplace. For the $20 for new line for that vent and since I’m already there I will just change it out.
5- I 100% agree that it is probably the line as I don’t know when it was last changed. Being as the boat is 25 years old I would guess it’s about due lol
6 - it is a plastic tank that I can’t quite get to enough of to do a full inspection but appears good. Once the lines have all be changed if I do find it’s a tank then it’s just a matter of undoing them and doing the tank.
7 - i live on the boat so it gets used regularly. Logs go to the services on shore but midnight tinkles go on the boat. There is nothing else flushed down
8- the master store is also 25 years old and works intermittently. Mainly used with just fresh water in the tank to keep it moving.

i sort of looked at it like this, these are all wearable parts so for $650.00 to replace everything ( except tank ) I may as well do it all in one shot.

now if I could only figure out how to get the darn hose out
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,173
- - LIttle Rock
Odors are always strongest at their source...so-- Where does your odor emanate from--the toilet bowl when flushed? Out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? Both? The shower drain? All over the boat? If so, is it strongest in lockers the sanitation hoses pass through? The bilge when you open a hatch?

The more specific information you can give me, the better.

--Peggie
 
Feb 14, 2014
5,785
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
the diagram for the 356 is laid out different Thant the 376
oops , my bad. I needed more coffee.:banghead:

Here is your H376 waste system layout.

Hunter_376_Waste.jpg



4- very likely one of the problems is in fact the vent and if you continually flush water through it will quickly slow down. Usually meaning the air in the tank has no place to go as the vent is plugged someplace.
There are 2 vents that are needed for full function.

1) The Hold tank vent [Waste Vent Fitting in diagram]
2) The Toilet pump vent [shown and a loop behind the head]

One way to check the Hold Tank vent is to open the Deck pump out fitting to allow Air in the Hold Tank.
Then open your macerator and pump out [per Law rules]

Does you Hold Tank level transmitter work? [also needed per Law]
Jim...
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
Odors are always strongest at their source...so-- Where does your odor emanate from--the toilet bowl when flushed? Out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? Both? The shower drain? All over the boat? If so, is it strongest in lockers the sanitation hoses pass through? The bilge when you open a hatch?

The more specific information you can give me, the better.

--Peggie
Hi Peggy
the Oder is ‘almost certainly coming from ( at least partially ) the waste hose. I managed to get it partially exposed by removing the built in chair in the aft cabin and when I get closer to that hose the smell increases. It’s also fairly sting in the cop it locker where the vent host passes through.
in the diagram above you see the toilet and then it passes under the locker ( next item ) the chair after that and then about 5 -6 feet of cabinets before heading out toward the tank. I can’t figure out how to remove those so I’m trying to get to both end to see if they are free and can freely move the hose.
next will be to check the attachment to the tank to make sure that’s ok but it’s stormy here and can only access that from outside but should be able to shortly.
already checked the shower and recently replaced the strainer and pump as there were a bit on the smelly side. Doesn’t get used much but if you have a recommended “flush” for the hoses please let me know ‘for the shower
also the macerate seems to be part of the issue as power is constant from the switch but pump runs hit and miss. Even when testing b;y spinning the most or with a screw driver so I’m guessing it’s gummed up
open to any and all suggestions from you for sure as to next steps after I figure this out ( changing the hoses etc ) I can’t use a power washer on the hose run to clean it as that’s inside the boat behind all the woodwork but anything as a deodorizer would be great. I have been trying to order your recommended pure Ayer but anything that might be more readily available you recommend?
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
Tha
oops , my bad. I needed more coffee.:banghead:

Here is your H376 waste system layout.

View attachment 199311




There are 2 vents that are needed for full function.

1) The Hold tank vent [Waste Vent Fitting in diagram]
2) The Toilet pump vent [shown and a loop behind the head]

One way to check the Hold Tank vent is to open the Deck pump out fitting to allow Air in the Hold Tank.
Then open your macerator and pump out [per Law rules]

Does you Hold Tank level transmitter work? [also needed per Law]
Jim...
[/QUOTE

thanks for the input. You can see in the diagram that it runs down the port side. This is where I am having issues as in the diagram it goes through the wall ( no problem ) then under a locker, a built in char, and then long cabinets. Just can’t seem to figure out how to get the cabinets out.
also yes the level works on the tank and a question . Would the siphon loop on the intake more have an effect on water coming in than waste going out ? Maybe I’m wrong as I mentioned…. New as all hell to this
 
Feb 21, 2013
3,927
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
I will add........when you replace the toilet go with fresh vs. raw water. Recently did that and the smell is now gone.
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
I will add........when you replace the toilet go with fresh vs. raw water. Recently did that and the smell is now gone.
At this point I’m thinking of replacing the boat with the toilet lol.
I have heard that the fresh water toilet rinse is amazing. Might need to add that once I get to the water maker. Which system did you get btw ?
 
Oct 22, 2014
16,409
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Which system did you get btw ?
When you say "System", it sounds like Watermaker system.

You do not need a water-maker, to install a fresh water source to flush. You need to add a freshwater source to your toilet pump intake.

Simplest design is outlined in Peggie's book. You tap into the sink drain. The intake hose from the toilet runs to the sink drain hose. With the Sink drain hose thru hull open you get raw water. When you close the thru hull and add water to the sink (fresh water from your water tanks on board), the pump for the toilet sucks the water out of the sink. Fresh water flush. Simple and works very efficiently.

With your smell emanating from the hose, you likely need to replace the hose. Before you buy the hose, follow the info in Peggie's book and wipe the hose with a damp cloth. Smell the cloth.

There are a thousand good ideas in the book. I recommend it to all the live a-boards I meet.
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
@sail sfbay See?

@sailing elipis If you're on the Great Lakes, doesn't that mean you can't use a macerator to dump overboard?
correct. The only time I have used it is after it gets pumped out and rinsed with clean water. I don’t discharge overboard but planning on heading south in a year or so. Wanted to make sure everything worked and this doesn’t work correctly.
 
Oct 16, 2021
13
hunter 376 hamilton
When you say "System", it sounds like Watermaker system.

You do not need a water-maker, to install a fresh water source to flush. You need to add a freshwater source to your toilet pump intake.

Simplest design is outlined in Peggie's book. You tap into the sink drain. The intake hose from the toilet runs to the sink drain hose. With the Sink drain hose thru hull open you get raw water. When you close the thru hull and add water to the sink (fresh water from your water tanks on board), the pump for the toilet sucks the water out of the sink. Fresh water flush. Simple and works very efficiently.

With your smell emanating from the hose, you likely need to replace the hose. Before you buy the hose, follow the info in Peggie's book and wipe the hose with a damp cloth. Smell the cloth.

There are a thousand good ideas in the book. I recommend it to all the live a-boards I meet.
no I thought you may have purchased a new head with the option to tap directly in to a fresh water lone VS the sink method.
I mentioned a water maker as I don’t want to use the water on board for that until I can replace it away from a dock is all.
 
Jan 19, 2010
968
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
The one piece of advice I can offer is regarding the macerator. Immediately leaving the holding tank you should have a PVC sewer rated gate valve. Then a PVC sewer rated union and then your macerator. So, should your macerator fail, you can isolate it from the tank and easily remove it.

Having said this, can you legally discharge in the Great Lakes. Or is there an MSD in place?
 
Jun 21, 2004
1,907
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
That’s quite a hose run. Lots of surface to permeate & quite an expense for quality hose. Not to mention difficulty in pulling new hose. Probably easiest way is to splice new & old hoses to facilitate pulling the new hose thru cabinets.

No overboard discharge allowed in Great Lakes.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,173
- - LIttle Rock
the Oder is ‘almost certainly coming from ( at least partially ) the waste hose. I managed to get it partially exposed by removing the built in chair in the aft cabin and when I get closer to that hose the smell increases. It’s also fairly sting in the cop it locker where the vent host passes through.
Replacement is the ONLY cure for permeated hoses...and it's one thing that you don't want to buy cheap if you only want to do this job once. But you don't have to pay top $$ either...Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose available both 1" and 1.5" for <$10/ft. It's the top rated sanitation hose and has a 10 yr warranty against odor permeation. As long as the existing hose isn't C-clamped or otherwise secured to the hull or a bulkhead, it's an easy job to attach new to the old (I'll explain how to do that later) and pull it through as you pull the old hose out.

It also appears that your shower sump is also a source of the odor. Cleaning it is one of the few jobs on a boat that doesn't require any manual labor (details later). However, I'm a bit confused by your saying that there's a macerator pump in the sump in addition to the sump pump. If you're referring to a macerator pump in your sanitation system plumbing, it should be removed. It's only used to dump a holding tank, which you'd have to be in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole North American coastline to use legally.

I have been trying to order your recommended pure Ayer but anything that might be more readily available you recommend?
PureAyre is not a cleaning product..it's only to be used on surfaces and in nooks and crannies AFTER they've been thoroughly cleaned with detergent and water.

Unless your tank is metal, it should not be necessary to replace it. You may or may not need a new toilet...that depends on its make/model/age.

It'll prob'ly be best if you and I can TALK instead of swapping a lot of typed questions and answers, 'cuz I've found that the answer to one question almost always gives rise to at least 3 more. If you'll send me a PM, I'll give you my phone number and we can find a mutually convenient day/approx time for you to call me.

--Peggie
 
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