I have received a few questions about the genesis of the Hunter 30 and thought to include some of my responses here for anyone else. I am gratified that so many are fond of this boat. I confess I especially like hearing positive comments about the accommodation layout since it was the interior I designed myself when I was 16!!! [smile] In the summer of 1973 my dad was laid up with a bad back (a lifelong ailment) and I was assigned the task of 'finishing' the drafting work on the boat. He often gave me what he called 'details' to work on– researching costs or dimensions on hardware, running go-fer errands to the shop or for samples, and usually such minor considerations (to him) as designing the interior layout of the boat. From the start the idea was to get a big-boat feel with the drop-leaf table and so forth (I don't recall that any of the Hunters had dinettes, which had gone out of vogue with my father long before they were ever in). Originally I drew six berths and it was built like that, but Hunter subsequently eliminated the pilot berth which had been unique amongst 30-footers– but probably with good reason as many thought it was like a coffin! Whilst Dad laid in agony on the sofa I figured the displacement from the lines drawing using the plinometer and slide rule (no electronic calculators then!) and then had to defend my findings at what we came to call 'the corporate bullsh*t session' (after-hours production and marketing meeting) at Marlboro. Fibreglass boats sold by the pound– I guess they still do. At the time it was a bit over $2.00/lb– the same as steak during the beef crisis then. Hunter wanted the boat to retail for $19,995. But I had done the math (checked it over several times) and the boat would displace 10,002 lbs, which meant that mathematically they would not get under their magic 20-grand figure. I don't know whether they chose to just disregard the long-haired loudmouth kid or to shave off nine bucks of profit, but the boat went to market at $19,995. My dad never flinched– he didn't even say much at the meeting, possibly because he was in abject pain in his back the whole time or because he knew I was right. After all he taught me everything I knew. I don't even remember how much sail area the 30 has but the rig is tall and with the deeper keel it ought to be a very good-handling boat. What people don't realise is that John Cherubini-designed boats are never merely plain-Jane station-wagons. Like finely-tuned racing cars they tend to demand a little something from everyone who sails them. One must pay attention to certain details like rig tuning and sail trim to make the most of it– but you get what you pay for. The guy knew innately what made a good boat sail well and what condemned it to being a pig, and he would never put his name on one of the latter without a lot of duress. Insidiously he imposed his own (high) ideal of sailing performance and outward appearance on every boat he drew, so that the boat became a compromise between his insisted-upon, almost naïve idealism, and whatever requirements Hunter or whomever it was could sway him to accept. He was stubborn and unmoved by things like popular demand and making money, which has probably been a good thing since what he's left us have been notoriously pretty boats in spite of everything. The Hunter 30 was a particular favourite with many, and I am sure it still is. It is a decent-sailing family boat and deserves to be considered one of the better ones in the Hunter line, old or new. In a way it's art, but it's also a product and the customer must be satisfied in the end. I'm glad to learn that so many are. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet@aol.com
Hunter 30, c.1973
- Thread starter jcherubini
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
Tim
I've had one for 12 years...
I bought the boat figuring I'd keep it for a few years and move on. Between its sailing performance and a really practical interior, I have been very reluctant to move to a larger boat. I have a 1981 with a taller rig than the earlier and I've smoothed the bottom, added some Doyle Pentek sails, and a feathering prop. It gives me much joy to embarass "faster" boats while I have my bimini up and carry a dinghy on davits. In light winds, I blew by a Beneteau Oceanis 40 cc this fall and totally astonished both her and my passengers. And the Beneteau skipper really wasn't doing anything very wrong. The interior? Its great; particularly the v-berth. This summer I stopped in Newport, RI and docked at Banister's Wharf next to a Cherubini 44. Talk about contrast! Couple questions if you've read this far: Did a Cherubini do the redesign for the taller rig (circa 1980 or '81 and added about 2' to the mast)? Was the odd mismatch between the hull and the deep fin keel original or did Hunter do something to accomodate a shoal keel?
I bought the boat figuring I'd keep it for a few years and move on. Between its sailing performance and a really practical interior, I have been very reluctant to move to a larger boat. I have a 1981 with a taller rig than the earlier and I've smoothed the bottom, added some Doyle Pentek sails, and a feathering prop. It gives me much joy to embarass "faster" boats while I have my bimini up and carry a dinghy on davits. In light winds, I blew by a Beneteau Oceanis 40 cc this fall and totally astonished both her and my passengers. And the Beneteau skipper really wasn't doing anything very wrong. The interior? Its great; particularly the v-berth. This summer I stopped in Newport, RI and docked at Banister's Wharf next to a Cherubini 44. Talk about contrast! Couple questions if you've read this far: Did a Cherubini do the redesign for the taller rig (circa 1980 or '81 and added about 2' to the mast)? Was the odd mismatch between the hull and the deep fin keel original or did Hunter do something to accomodate a shoal keel?
T
Thad
Sail/Tuning Recommendations
Mr. Cherubini - Can you give us some pointers on what you consider to be sail plan/tuning enhancements over the stock sail/rigging setup of the Hunter 30? I have a 1982 with the deep keel. I just mounted a new North full-batten main and 150% genoa. I'm having the original 110 working jib evaluated for refurbishment. Does the boat handle a spinnaker well? Would an adjustable backstay be a recommendation? Any recommendations or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Mr. Cherubini - Can you give us some pointers on what you consider to be sail plan/tuning enhancements over the stock sail/rigging setup of the Hunter 30? I have a 1982 with the deep keel. I just mounted a new North full-batten main and 150% genoa. I'm having the original 110 working jib evaluated for refurbishment. Does the boat handle a spinnaker well? Would an adjustable backstay be a recommendation? Any recommendations or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thad's question about tuning
Thanks for your question, Thad. Have the rig examind by the yard. It should have a little mast rake, which will aid in windward pointing. If I had the plans here I could tell you how much mast angle to have but I don't. You'll just have to experiment, but BE CAREFUL. Too much dramatic change will break something. By all means get the adjustable backstay. We had one on Antigone using what we called the 'fish plate' about 8 ft off the deck and the two fixed wires going to the corners of the transom. A five-wheel block was drawn down on both lower backstays by 2:1 purchase to the deck. This is by now standard issue but at the time (1978) it was a pretty trick concept (and easily fabricated). I have no doubt early Hunters would have had it if we'd have known. Actually in practise we rarely messed with it but it did have a set to it and affected mast rake considerably. I have no experience with full-battened mains but have to wonder what they are good for on a displacement cruising boat in practice. It seems like a lot of expence for what you could realise from it– but then as I said I don't know. North's are good if you can afford them and you can't go wrong with their quality. The 30 ought to be one of the better sailing Hunters, especially with the deep keel. There is no reason why you should not stack up well against even newer boats of the same type and size range. I am still in the laborious process of acquiring old drawings. When I have better data I will certianly make it available. JC II
Thanks for your question, Thad. Have the rig examind by the yard. It should have a little mast rake, which will aid in windward pointing. If I had the plans here I could tell you how much mast angle to have but I don't. You'll just have to experiment, but BE CAREFUL. Too much dramatic change will break something. By all means get the adjustable backstay. We had one on Antigone using what we called the 'fish plate' about 8 ft off the deck and the two fixed wires going to the corners of the transom. A five-wheel block was drawn down on both lower backstays by 2:1 purchase to the deck. This is by now standard issue but at the time (1978) it was a pretty trick concept (and easily fabricated). I have no doubt early Hunters would have had it if we'd have known. Actually in practise we rarely messed with it but it did have a set to it and affected mast rake considerably. I have no experience with full-battened mains but have to wonder what they are good for on a displacement cruising boat in practice. It seems like a lot of expence for what you could realise from it– but then as I said I don't know. North's are good if you can afford them and you can't go wrong with their quality. The 30 ought to be one of the better sailing Hunters, especially with the deep keel. There is no reason why you should not stack up well against even newer boats of the same type and size range. I am still in the laborious process of acquiring old drawings. When I have better data I will certianly make it available. JC II
Rig and keel.
In answer to Tim's two questions: The original Hunter 30 was a keel/CB which is what Hunter wanted. The deeper keel came later. The usual trick in going from a deep keel to a shoal one in design is to preserve the same area and longitudinal centre of lateral resistance and just reshape it so it's shallower. The taller rig was my dad's also. He was always looking for more sail area!!! (BTW the Cherubini 44 ketch had THREE sail plans, each one larger than the last. Only the original short-rig one was ever seen and critiqued by L F Herreshoff who said, 'Too much sail area'!!!!) JC
In answer to Tim's two questions: The original Hunter 30 was a keel/CB which is what Hunter wanted. The deeper keel came later. The usual trick in going from a deep keel to a shoal one in design is to preserve the same area and longitudinal centre of lateral resistance and just reshape it so it's shallower. The taller rig was my dad's also. He was always looking for more sail area!!! (BTW the Cherubini 44 ketch had THREE sail plans, each one larger than the last. Only the original short-rig one was ever seen and critiqued by L F Herreshoff who said, 'Too much sail area'!!!!) JC
T
Thad
Thanks for the tips!
Mr. Cherubini - Thanks for the tips. I'll certainly get started on the adjustable backstay. My mast has absolutely no rake to it at present - the boat points upwind exceptionally well with the original 110, but not so well with the 150 - perhaps that would solve the problem. The full batten main was more of a concession to single-handing than performance - easier to lower and flake the main with the full battens. The price, though, was not mentionably higher than the standard configuration. I also opted for a loose foot to restore a little of the sail shape control I knew I would lose with the full battens. North's full battens are very flexible, however, and I'm very pleased. I was able to exceed 8 knots with the original sails - I'm looking forward to stretching that figure with the new North layout. I noticed you didn't comment on the spinnaker - any particular reason? (I'm a novice - please forgive my naivete) By the way, I'm very pleased with the interior layout. I chose this boat over several other newer models because of the headroom and cabin layout - perfect for weekending, etc. I'm particularly fond of the cavernous v-berth. Any suggestions you could give on placement of a marine air/heat system would be greatly appreciated. My port setee has the "L" shape, and I've looked at mounting the unit against the bulkhead and pulling water through the toilet intake throughhull. I hate to add this weight and complexity to the boat, but in Jackson MS a portable A/C just won't cut it during the summer.
Mr. Cherubini - Thanks for the tips. I'll certainly get started on the adjustable backstay. My mast has absolutely no rake to it at present - the boat points upwind exceptionally well with the original 110, but not so well with the 150 - perhaps that would solve the problem. The full batten main was more of a concession to single-handing than performance - easier to lower and flake the main with the full battens. The price, though, was not mentionably higher than the standard configuration. I also opted for a loose foot to restore a little of the sail shape control I knew I would lose with the full battens. North's full battens are very flexible, however, and I'm very pleased. I was able to exceed 8 knots with the original sails - I'm looking forward to stretching that figure with the new North layout. I noticed you didn't comment on the spinnaker - any particular reason? (I'm a novice - please forgive my naivete) By the way, I'm very pleased with the interior layout. I chose this boat over several other newer models because of the headroom and cabin layout - perfect for weekending, etc. I'm particularly fond of the cavernous v-berth. Any suggestions you could give on placement of a marine air/heat system would be greatly appreciated. My port setee has the "L" shape, and I've looked at mounting the unit against the bulkhead and pulling water through the toilet intake throughhull. I hate to add this weight and complexity to the boat, but in Jackson MS a portable A/C just won't cut it during the summer.
C
Cecil
Thanks Mr. Cherubini
Just a note to thank you for the info on the 30, mine still has much work required before I can sail her,but am looking forward to living aboard and extensive travel.She has the "feel" of a "go anywhere" boat, and the accomodations to make it possible in comfort and security.I did have a response to my question of tiller length,an owner is going to measure one for me. Thanks again, look forward to reading more about a "real" cruising boat, the H30 Cecil
Just a note to thank you for the info on the 30, mine still has much work required before I can sail her,but am looking forward to living aboard and extensive travel.She has the "feel" of a "go anywhere" boat, and the accomodations to make it possible in comfort and security.I did have a response to my question of tiller length,an owner is going to measure one for me. Thanks again, look forward to reading more about a "real" cruising boat, the H30 Cecil
J
Jim Rice
Thank you, Mr. C.
John, Thank you, thank you, thank you for the wonderful interior design. My wife and I love the interior of the H27, and as far as I can see it was modeled on the H30. I'm 5'7' and she's 5'1.99999" and it fits us to a "T". Every boat we look at is judged by our boat, and most of them are lacking. And that's the only drawback to the boat--it's a high standard for others to meet. Jim and Deb Rice
John, Thank you, thank you, thank you for the wonderful interior design. My wife and I love the interior of the H27, and as far as I can see it was modeled on the H30. I'm 5'7' and she's 5'1.99999" and it fits us to a "T". Every boat we look at is judged by our boat, and most of them are lacking. And that's the only drawback to the boat--it's a high standard for others to meet. Jim and Deb Rice
P
Pat Spino
John, how about the Raider?
Prior to my recent purchase of a Legend 35.5 I owned a Raider 33 for 11 years. I realize that it's off topic here but I loved the way it sailed. Perhaps you could give some background on the Raider. I notice that you have the original plug in you yard. Also, to illustrate how fast that boat was: a friend of mine races a Raider locally and does very well with it against todays designs!!! If you would prefer to respond to me instead of the forum: captainpat@prodigy.net Thanks PS
Prior to my recent purchase of a Legend 35.5 I owned a Raider 33 for 11 years. I realize that it's off topic here but I loved the way it sailed. Perhaps you could give some background on the Raider. I notice that you have the original plug in you yard. Also, to illustrate how fast that boat was: a friend of mine races a Raider locally and does very well with it against todays designs!!! If you would prefer to respond to me instead of the forum: captainpat@prodigy.net Thanks PS
About the Raider plug in the yard.
About the Raider, see my comments under 'Hunter 33-Raider connection'. The yard is not mine (would that it were!) but my cousin Lee's who once contracted to build boats for and is now part owner in a merged arrangement which became Independence Cherubini Inc. To my knowledge they have been building no 44s and only one or two 48s over the last 8 years or so, though they do pelnty of maintenance work. The Raider 33 plug in the yard is indeed the real thing but I know only its older history and have no idea who technically owns it now– and how I might obtain it myself! I do know that it has has never been finished, has lain dormant for a very long time, and will need A LOT of work to make into a useable boat. There has also been another of my dad's boats in that yard too, a pale green 30-ft bilge-keel sloop that was sailed and raced round Barnegat Bay in the late 70s, but I'm not sure if it's there right now. To my knowledge Lee owns neither of those. The suggestion made in the other board about avoiding the Florida Raiders are true– but I do not know that any true production was ever done there. To my knowledge there were more like 30 Raider boats built in NJ from about 1977 till 1983 when I helped move and close the shop. The three guys could build about one boat a month. JC
About the Raider, see my comments under 'Hunter 33-Raider connection'. The yard is not mine (would that it were!) but my cousin Lee's who once contracted to build boats for and is now part owner in a merged arrangement which became Independence Cherubini Inc. To my knowledge they have been building no 44s and only one or two 48s over the last 8 years or so, though they do pelnty of maintenance work. The Raider 33 plug in the yard is indeed the real thing but I know only its older history and have no idea who technically owns it now– and how I might obtain it myself! I do know that it has has never been finished, has lain dormant for a very long time, and will need A LOT of work to make into a useable boat. There has also been another of my dad's boats in that yard too, a pale green 30-ft bilge-keel sloop that was sailed and raced round Barnegat Bay in the late 70s, but I'm not sure if it's there right now. To my knowledge Lee owns neither of those. The suggestion made in the other board about avoiding the Florida Raiders are true– but I do not know that any true production was ever done there. To my knowledge there were more like 30 Raider boats built in NJ from about 1977 till 1983 when I helped move and close the shop. The three guys could build about one boat a month. JC
The Raider, again.
I don't know what happened to the board but for Pat Spino and others who are curious the Raider story is at http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/rview.tpl?rid=2000346225254.14&forumabr=cd&fno=18 or you may EMail me if needs be. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet@saol.com
I don't know what happened to the board but for Pat Spino and others who are curious the Raider story is at http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/rview.tpl?rid=2000346225254.14&forumabr=cd&fno=18 or you may EMail me if needs be. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet@saol.com
- Status
- Not open for further replies.