Question: Has anyone installed a proper mainsheet traveller in the cockpit of an H-27? How did you mount it? What kind of purchase did you use on the car and the sheet tackle, and how did you locate the hardware? And does the boat have a tiller or wheel? AND– why'd you do it and are you happy with how it turned out? This was considered the biggest serious drawback to the H-27 from the beginning. As designer my father was put into the position of giving the boat more cabin than he thought it deserved and we often thought the boat seemed to be pretending to be something it wasn't (a yacht in daysailer's clothing). My dad chose to use the mid-boom sheeting arrangement as any boat of the '60s without a traveller would have had, but I have always preferred a traveller and with the centre of effort of H-27's sail area so high up in the rig it's important to crank that boom DOWN to get any real pull. All of this notwithstanding, the sad fact for people of my opinion is that the boat is not very heavy, any heel angle in hard weather will cause the load to spill off appropriately, the imposed moment on the middle of the boom is not that great numerically, the boom after all is T-6066 aluminium, and the rope size has plenty of reserve tensile strength– so it JUST DOESN'T MATTER! I just think that, coming from what I'm more used to, I want the boat to seem more familiar– and more competitive. I've gained a lot of respect for the '70s H-27 recently and I would very much like to have one of the two for sale in my neighbourhood... maybe by March. (How can you go wrong buying a decent family boat for nine grand?) J Cherubini II JComet@aol.com
Hunter 27 traveller
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David Foster
Traveller aft of the Rudder Post
I'm a pleased cruiser on Lake Erie who spent the $9,000 for a '77 Huneter 27 last spring. Our mainsheet attaches from the end of the boom to a traveller mounted on the seat level behind the rudder post. The car sometimes carches on the top of the rudder post on a tack. Otherwise, this set-up works fine for day sailing or cruising. I have seen this set-up on other h27's, and actually think it was original on my boat. Other posts here (see the archives) describe mounting a traveller over the hatch on the cabin roof to the middle of the boom. There are actually some good pictures of this somewhere. With our shoal draft keel, we reef early - when we are consistently heeling over 15 degrees to keep the rig driving, and avoid excessive sideslip. A new mainsail also had a dramatic impact, reducing heel, and increasing drive, especially in moderate winds. Glad to see you here, David
I'm a pleased cruiser on Lake Erie who spent the $9,000 for a '77 Huneter 27 last spring. Our mainsheet attaches from the end of the boom to a traveller mounted on the seat level behind the rudder post. The car sometimes carches on the top of the rudder post on a tack. Otherwise, this set-up works fine for day sailing or cruising. I have seen this set-up on other h27's, and actually think it was original on my boat. Other posts here (see the archives) describe mounting a traveller over the hatch on the cabin roof to the middle of the boom. There are actually some good pictures of this somewhere. With our shoal draft keel, we reef early - when we are consistently heeling over 15 degrees to keep the rig driving, and avoid excessive sideslip. A new mainsail also had a dramatic impact, reducing heel, and increasing drive, especially in moderate winds. Glad to see you here, David
Edson steering gear
Re: the traveller question. I have seen the after arrangement David speaks of but not up close. My intention was to put the traveller across the front of the cockpit (as on a J-24) and somehow deal with the hatch beyond it– the companionway threshhold ought to have been higher anyway and I'd do the fibreglass work to make it so. The boat I am considering has a tiller, which of course takes up the whole cockpit, but even today I asked Edson to look up a worm-gear wheelbox steerer for this boat. Though it's old-fashioned-looking it may be the most practical answer. Actually that set-up can be very convenient and it never breaks down (requiring no emergency tiller). Also I prefer a big wheel (30"+) –what experiences have others had using or replacing the factory's little dinky wheel on the pedestal steerer? JC
Re: the traveller question. I have seen the after arrangement David speaks of but not up close. My intention was to put the traveller across the front of the cockpit (as on a J-24) and somehow deal with the hatch beyond it– the companionway threshhold ought to have been higher anyway and I'd do the fibreglass work to make it so. The boat I am considering has a tiller, which of course takes up the whole cockpit, but even today I asked Edson to look up a worm-gear wheelbox steerer for this boat. Though it's old-fashioned-looking it may be the most practical answer. Actually that set-up can be very convenient and it never breaks down (requiring no emergency tiller). Also I prefer a big wheel (30"+) –what experiences have others had using or replacing the factory's little dinky wheel on the pedestal steerer? JC
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Bill Phish
Practical Sailor article on the 27
Is it true that Practical Sailor named the Hunter 27 as the "Worst Sailing Production Sailboat"? If so, was it from a reader survey or the opinion of Dan Spurr or the editoral crew at PS? I had heard this from the sheepish owner of a late '70's model with that bone-jarring one-lung Renault engine. The boat did have a lot of room below though, kind of like a 30 footer crammed into a 27 footer. Bill Phish
Is it true that Practical Sailor named the Hunter 27 as the "Worst Sailing Production Sailboat"? If so, was it from a reader survey or the opinion of Dan Spurr or the editoral crew at PS? I had heard this from the sheepish owner of a late '70's model with that bone-jarring one-lung Renault engine. The boat did have a lot of room below though, kind of like a 30 footer crammed into a 27 footer. Bill Phish
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John
Leave it alone
Your dad's design was never ment to be raced or be a performance boat by any stretch of the imagination. I have an 81 H27 that I grew up on. After takeing it off of my father when he was ready to move up, I like him use the boat for what it is designed for. It is the perfect sailboat to get from point A to point B with a wife and kids, have a great 3-4 days docked and powered up, and turn around and go home. It is th ultimate extended weekender. If anything more attention should be paid to interior improvements, The only thing I would like to do is add hot water, shower, and an electrical fridge. Although I never read the article, I do believe it possibly is the worst sailing production boat ever made. Thats not the point. It is the most comfortable, well built, functional 27 footer I have ever seen. When I want to do some performance sailing I jump on one of the two lazers I drag behind me. And how come you are looking for a used H27 anyway? It seems the son of the designer of so many incredible boats would be looking for a top of the line model.
Your dad's design was never ment to be raced or be a performance boat by any stretch of the imagination. I have an 81 H27 that I grew up on. After takeing it off of my father when he was ready to move up, I like him use the boat for what it is designed for. It is the perfect sailboat to get from point A to point B with a wife and kids, have a great 3-4 days docked and powered up, and turn around and go home. It is th ultimate extended weekender. If anything more attention should be paid to interior improvements, The only thing I would like to do is add hot water, shower, and an electrical fridge. Although I never read the article, I do believe it possibly is the worst sailing production boat ever made. Thats not the point. It is the most comfortable, well built, functional 27 footer I have ever seen. When I want to do some performance sailing I jump on one of the two lazers I drag behind me. And how come you are looking for a used H27 anyway? It seems the son of the designer of so many incredible boats would be looking for a top of the line model.
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Ed Tamara
Traveler for Hunter 27
Hi J I think I have done exactly what you are asking about; I installed a traveler over the companionway about 10" from the hatch itself. I drilled thru the cockpit and found an aluminum plate but I continued thru the inside liner and bore a hole bigger than the bolt, then I put backing washers all the way to the fiberglass. I used a curved traveler from a Catalina 30 and made some traveler towers out of teak that cleared the companionway hatch by 1 inch.the traveler cart is a 2 to 1 purchase and installed the hardware at the end of the traveler and some jaws close to the edge of the cockpit for the traveler controls; The mainsheet is a 4 to 1 and works very well. The boat's abilities improved considerably, at least if I don't win the race I finish pretty close to the leaders. The pointing ability improved dramatically and I had a new main made for it it is a powerhead with an open foot and 2 full battens and 2 small battens. My boat is an 83 in very good shape with a wheel. I usually singlehand her and I'm very used to her; I replaced the winches for 2 speeds ones so I can do it fairly easy. Now I'm thinking in how could I install a T track on my gennie so I can improve the pointing abilities a little more. I can get a bigger boat but I am in love with this one and it has everything I want in a boat and is paid for. I installed a shower in the head and a bigger Yanmar 18hp, new standing rigging and a bunch of more things. This boat has gone to the Bahamas and the Keys and yes she has to be reefed at 15 kts but I have sailed her in winds up to 25 to 30 kts and in control. I bought this boat for 9 grand 8 years ago of course now I have a lot more money invested in her if you want any more info e mail me. Your Dad made some pretty terrific boats. Ed Tamara S/V Mastconfusion
Hi J I think I have done exactly what you are asking about; I installed a traveler over the companionway about 10" from the hatch itself. I drilled thru the cockpit and found an aluminum plate but I continued thru the inside liner and bore a hole bigger than the bolt, then I put backing washers all the way to the fiberglass. I used a curved traveler from a Catalina 30 and made some traveler towers out of teak that cleared the companionway hatch by 1 inch.the traveler cart is a 2 to 1 purchase and installed the hardware at the end of the traveler and some jaws close to the edge of the cockpit for the traveler controls; The mainsheet is a 4 to 1 and works very well. The boat's abilities improved considerably, at least if I don't win the race I finish pretty close to the leaders. The pointing ability improved dramatically and I had a new main made for it it is a powerhead with an open foot and 2 full battens and 2 small battens. My boat is an 83 in very good shape with a wheel. I usually singlehand her and I'm very used to her; I replaced the winches for 2 speeds ones so I can do it fairly easy. Now I'm thinking in how could I install a T track on my gennie so I can improve the pointing abilities a little more. I can get a bigger boat but I am in love with this one and it has everything I want in a boat and is paid for. I installed a shower in the head and a bigger Yanmar 18hp, new standing rigging and a bunch of more things. This boat has gone to the Bahamas and the Keys and yes she has to be reefed at 15 kts but I have sailed her in winds up to 25 to 30 kts and in control. I bought this boat for 9 grand 8 years ago of course now I have a lot more money invested in her if you want any more info e mail me. Your Dad made some pretty terrific boats. Ed Tamara S/V Mastconfusion
Worst-sailing sailboat
I can probably name a dozen worse-sailing contemporaries of the Hunter 27. But most of this argument would descend into a peeing contest of personal opinions. Here on the Delaware River there are quite a few 27s sailing and racing round the buoys and to my recollection NONE of them are slouches. Round my father's drawing-board we typically considered the 27 our least favourite model. It got called a number of ugly things– I referred to it as a 25 trying to be a 30. When I worked with a Hunter dealer I got to inspect it more closely, and decided that the mid-boom sheeting which doesn't allow you to realise the full pull of the main and the one-lung Renault diesel were definitely its worst faults. Later boats got better with the deeper keel and the Yanmar motor. Several I have seen have travellers behind the rudder post which makes sense although it's still not where it should be. Don Bodemann and others have lately defended the boat and I have renewed a critical interest in it. You have to admit that the hull itself with its sweet wineglass rear end can be downright pretty. It is not too heavy (it may be too light) and the accommodations for a 27-footer are at least average. With all that real wood down below the early boats were very appealing to buyers. As far as me having a particular preference for it, there are three things I would ask you keep in mind. I'm not trying to be cocky but I do know a few secrets about boat construction and can do in my sleep certain kinds of boat work that most people would flee from like the Plague. The same goes for boat performance. Thanks to PHRF any decent sailor on any decent boat can make something happen on a race course. The 27 is not enough of a pig to be unworkable round the buoys in a friendly or local race (especially if you fixed the traveller). And remember I learned from a master dinghy racer who knew how to get everything out of every breath of air and ripple of tide. Lastly as it was mentioned the 27 was designed primarily as a safe, affordable, usable family boat. I have to face the fact that with two children I am no longer in the J-27 market! Hunter's forte was in producing what one dealer called 'the Chevy station wagon of boats'. The majority of original 27 buyers had never owned a boat with an enclosed head or inboard motor before (how many 27-footers had diesels at all?). Many of them had very little sailing experience to start with. The 25 and 27 were intended from the beginning to be safe, well-rounded sailboats for people to learn on and move up from– which they did. You can't expect a Subaru Legacy to be a full-on performance machine, but it is not exactly a slug either. I just think it would be fun to take my father's philosophy of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse and make a 27 more respectable from a usefulness standpoint. If and when this project takes hold you may count on me sharing what I have learnt from it in here. JC
I can probably name a dozen worse-sailing contemporaries of the Hunter 27. But most of this argument would descend into a peeing contest of personal opinions. Here on the Delaware River there are quite a few 27s sailing and racing round the buoys and to my recollection NONE of them are slouches. Round my father's drawing-board we typically considered the 27 our least favourite model. It got called a number of ugly things– I referred to it as a 25 trying to be a 30. When I worked with a Hunter dealer I got to inspect it more closely, and decided that the mid-boom sheeting which doesn't allow you to realise the full pull of the main and the one-lung Renault diesel were definitely its worst faults. Later boats got better with the deeper keel and the Yanmar motor. Several I have seen have travellers behind the rudder post which makes sense although it's still not where it should be. Don Bodemann and others have lately defended the boat and I have renewed a critical interest in it. You have to admit that the hull itself with its sweet wineglass rear end can be downright pretty. It is not too heavy (it may be too light) and the accommodations for a 27-footer are at least average. With all that real wood down below the early boats were very appealing to buyers. As far as me having a particular preference for it, there are three things I would ask you keep in mind. I'm not trying to be cocky but I do know a few secrets about boat construction and can do in my sleep certain kinds of boat work that most people would flee from like the Plague. The same goes for boat performance. Thanks to PHRF any decent sailor on any decent boat can make something happen on a race course. The 27 is not enough of a pig to be unworkable round the buoys in a friendly or local race (especially if you fixed the traveller). And remember I learned from a master dinghy racer who knew how to get everything out of every breath of air and ripple of tide. Lastly as it was mentioned the 27 was designed primarily as a safe, affordable, usable family boat. I have to face the fact that with two children I am no longer in the J-27 market! Hunter's forte was in producing what one dealer called 'the Chevy station wagon of boats'. The majority of original 27 buyers had never owned a boat with an enclosed head or inboard motor before (how many 27-footers had diesels at all?). Many of them had very little sailing experience to start with. The 25 and 27 were intended from the beginning to be safe, well-rounded sailboats for people to learn on and move up from– which they did. You can't expect a Subaru Legacy to be a full-on performance machine, but it is not exactly a slug either. I just think it would be fun to take my father's philosophy of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse and make a 27 more respectable from a usefulness standpoint. If and when this project takes hold you may count on me sharing what I have learnt from it in here. JC
Ed's comments
Sorry to belabor this issue but– Ed makes a few important points. The first is that he singlehands the boat. When you are the daddy of two girls who would rather be blonde Barbies in bikinis than junior Mrs Linn Pardeys you have to do a lot of boat handling by yourself. The 27 is the proper size for daddies who want to really sail but have to take the kids along and the kids insist on an enclosed potty. And having only nine grand or so to spend on one of my dad's boats I have to say this puts me solidly in the Hunter 27 market. The second point is that Ed has taken his boat offshore. Any decently-made production boat ought to be able to handle some ocean sailing. Sure, you have to prepare it. Ed probably has. But if you can't lap Long Island or bob down to Cape Charles outside then you have got the wrong boat. My dad has this sort of famous quote that a 'seaworthy boat has to be worthy of the sea'. He meant that the boat OWES something to the sea, that it can't just prance out there and insist on being accepted. Nature is a mother and will kick that presumptuous little transom all the way home and hard. The boat has to earn the right to be there. No one at Hunter marketing ever expected a Hunter 27 to run the Whitbread. It's silly to assume that's what I mean. But anyone's well-kept Hunter 27 ought to handle any proportionate part of normal family-guy sailing circumstances and even surprise you sometimes with its safety factor. That's what 'a well-rounded sailboat' means. Also- Ed says that he has to reef early, 15 knots. This is a factor of the high boom and mid-boom control. My intention is to put the traveller across the very forward edge of the cockpit– that's right, right aft of the hatch which would necessitate a J-24-type installation. This is where it belongs and I assure you that kind of work is minimal to me. I believe this would allow the boom to be carried lower and give more control in moderate (15-30-kt) air. We get a lot of gustiness here on the River and when racing I have always been a 'damn the torpedoes'/'give it hell Harry' kind of guy! LOL Hope the Barbies learn how to hang on. JC
Sorry to belabor this issue but– Ed makes a few important points. The first is that he singlehands the boat. When you are the daddy of two girls who would rather be blonde Barbies in bikinis than junior Mrs Linn Pardeys you have to do a lot of boat handling by yourself. The 27 is the proper size for daddies who want to really sail but have to take the kids along and the kids insist on an enclosed potty. And having only nine grand or so to spend on one of my dad's boats I have to say this puts me solidly in the Hunter 27 market. The second point is that Ed has taken his boat offshore. Any decently-made production boat ought to be able to handle some ocean sailing. Sure, you have to prepare it. Ed probably has. But if you can't lap Long Island or bob down to Cape Charles outside then you have got the wrong boat. My dad has this sort of famous quote that a 'seaworthy boat has to be worthy of the sea'. He meant that the boat OWES something to the sea, that it can't just prance out there and insist on being accepted. Nature is a mother and will kick that presumptuous little transom all the way home and hard. The boat has to earn the right to be there. No one at Hunter marketing ever expected a Hunter 27 to run the Whitbread. It's silly to assume that's what I mean. But anyone's well-kept Hunter 27 ought to handle any proportionate part of normal family-guy sailing circumstances and even surprise you sometimes with its safety factor. That's what 'a well-rounded sailboat' means. Also- Ed says that he has to reef early, 15 knots. This is a factor of the high boom and mid-boom control. My intention is to put the traveller across the very forward edge of the cockpit– that's right, right aft of the hatch which would necessitate a J-24-type installation. This is where it belongs and I assure you that kind of work is minimal to me. I believe this would allow the boom to be carried lower and give more control in moderate (15-30-kt) air. We get a lot of gustiness here on the River and when racing I have always been a 'damn the torpedoes'/'give it hell Harry' kind of guy! LOL Hope the Barbies learn how to hang on. JC
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Tom M.
information please
I have a 1982/1983 Hunter 27' it's 800 lbs lighter than the I.P pig boat, they name after fat ladies, it's 200 lbs heavier than Catalina, 1200 lbs heavier, than the Pearson, it's the heaviest hunter per length/disp. ratio. it's 200 lbs lighter than the 28' Tattal, which is wider , higher, and has a 2 cyl. Yanmar, My traveler is diferent than yours, it's 2 multi sheave spring loaded blocks on the main cabin, which I moved fwd. about a foot, so I could have a partial hard dodger, together with a 4 to one boom vang, it work well for me, I lead the sheet aft to the wheel's engine sontrol lever, look around and notice the other boats in yor size and realize the potential you have over the others. good sailing to you.
I have a 1982/1983 Hunter 27' it's 800 lbs lighter than the I.P pig boat, they name after fat ladies, it's 200 lbs heavier than Catalina, 1200 lbs heavier, than the Pearson, it's the heaviest hunter per length/disp. ratio. it's 200 lbs lighter than the 28' Tattal, which is wider , higher, and has a 2 cyl. Yanmar, My traveler is diferent than yours, it's 2 multi sheave spring loaded blocks on the main cabin, which I moved fwd. about a foot, so I could have a partial hard dodger, together with a 4 to one boom vang, it work well for me, I lead the sheet aft to the wheel's engine sontrol lever, look around and notice the other boats in yor size and realize the potential you have over the others. good sailing to you.
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R.W.Landau
Check out photo
Go to the Oday forum and into the photo forum. There is a main sheet traveler mounted as you describe on an Oday 27. r.w.landau
Go to the Oday forum and into the photo forum. There is a main sheet traveler mounted as you describe on an Oday 27. r.w.landau
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Aldo Lozano-WA2IST
About that engine, Ed...
I read with interest your description of the mods you did to your boat, and caught my attention the one related to the engine. I love the boat and with the little stuff I am adding to it for creatures comfort is very closed to the ideal thing for me. The only point I will like to improve is the power coming out from that propeller... Do you did the conversion yourself? How much did you paid for the engine (assuming we are talking about a 2GM) And where did you got it? The replacement seem to me like a very simple proyect (I am an aircraft mechanic by trade)since the phisical differences of both engines are few. alozano@monmouth.com
I read with interest your description of the mods you did to your boat, and caught my attention the one related to the engine. I love the boat and with the little stuff I am adding to it for creatures comfort is very closed to the ideal thing for me. The only point I will like to improve is the power coming out from that propeller... Do you did the conversion yourself? How much did you paid for the engine (assuming we are talking about a 2GM) And where did you got it? The replacement seem to me like a very simple proyect (I am an aircraft mechanic by trade)since the phisical differences of both engines are few. alozano@monmouth.com
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Jim Rice
Engine Conversion
As I mentioned in a post a few months ago, the national rep for Yanmar at the last Chicago Strictly Sail was very familiar with dropping the 2G engine into the H27. He said that it was no problem, the stern wouldn't "squat" with the slightly extra weight. You would have to fabricate new beds, however. He estimated the time needed at 40-60 hours, so that could be the sticking point. His overall attitude was that the local dealers could do it, no problem.
As I mentioned in a post a few months ago, the national rep for Yanmar at the last Chicago Strictly Sail was very familiar with dropping the 2G engine into the H27. He said that it was no problem, the stern wouldn't "squat" with the slightly extra weight. You would have to fabricate new beds, however. He estimated the time needed at 40-60 hours, so that could be the sticking point. His overall attitude was that the local dealers could do it, no problem.
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