I wonder. Can a 10 year old production boat hull be trusted to last another 10 or more years (without a mayor expense I mean)? I have in mind the 1996 Hunter 430. When is it time to sell? or buy... Do you think that a 1996 hull might start to have structural problems or do you think it is built to last indefinitely?
How many more years?
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good question
I guess it depends on what you mean by major expense. I think if a boat is well maintained and things that wear out are replaced as they age the boat should be good for a lot longer that 20 years. I have a 1991 37.5 that looks as good as new through keeping up with waxing and making sure that i carry out regular maintenance on the mechanical items. I have just put on a new suit of sails, I have been told at a recent Hunter rendezvous by a certified yanmar mechanic that it is not uncommon for a Yanmar to last 5 thousand hours before major overhaul or engine is required. We have replaced the upholstery a few years ago not so much as it was worn out but because my wife wanted to redecorate. You have posed a good question. I hope you get more replies to it.. Mike
I guess it depends on what you mean by major expense. I think if a boat is well maintained and things that wear out are replaced as they age the boat should be good for a lot longer that 20 years. I have a 1991 37.5 that looks as good as new through keeping up with waxing and making sure that i carry out regular maintenance on the mechanical items. I have just put on a new suit of sails, I have been told at a recent Hunter rendezvous by a certified yanmar mechanic that it is not uncommon for a Yanmar to last 5 thousand hours before major overhaul or engine is required. We have replaced the upholstery a few years ago not so much as it was worn out but because my wife wanted to redecorate. You have posed a good question. I hope you get more replies to it.. Mike
Certainly.
I have a 1994. It has 1700 engine hours. It has about 10K miles on it per the log, assuming it wasn't re-set, altho I believe it was. I just had the rigging surveyed and it came out fine. Upholstery was reconditioned as was canvas. Also a newish suit of sails. New halyards. General maintenance. Franky, the hull would be the last thing I'd worry about. The sails and rig are first in my book from that vintage, then the engine/trans. After that, the plumbing (head/holding tank). Then electrical and finally, all the comfort & cosmetics. Just my opinion and observation. Having said that, too much deferred maintenance will clobber you. After ten years you do have issues with parts becoming obsolete, suppliers out of business, insurance issues and rigging replacement. But, to some degree, that is a cost factored in the resale, helping a buyer, but not necessarily a seller. That can be an argument for a new boat rather than confronting the maintanance costs. Rick D.
I have a 1994. It has 1700 engine hours. It has about 10K miles on it per the log, assuming it wasn't re-set, altho I believe it was. I just had the rigging surveyed and it came out fine. Upholstery was reconditioned as was canvas. Also a newish suit of sails. New halyards. General maintenance. Franky, the hull would be the last thing I'd worry about. The sails and rig are first in my book from that vintage, then the engine/trans. After that, the plumbing (head/holding tank). Then electrical and finally, all the comfort & cosmetics. Just my opinion and observation. Having said that, too much deferred maintenance will clobber you. After ten years you do have issues with parts becoming obsolete, suppliers out of business, insurance issues and rigging replacement. But, to some degree, that is a cost factored in the resale, helping a buyer, but not necessarily a seller. That can be an argument for a new boat rather than confronting the maintanance costs. Rick D.
Just at look at the used boat sales
Fiberglass holds up amazingly well. Given respectable construction to start witha and decent amount of maintenance since, a production boat should be viable for a long time. Some will obviously hold up better than others but I think the primary factor in obsolesence is the gadgets. There's something to be said for a new boat that's designed from the outset to handle modern electronics relative to retrofitting an older boat to bring it up to current standards.
Fiberglass holds up amazingly well. Given respectable construction to start witha and decent amount of maintenance since, a production boat should be viable for a long time. Some will obviously hold up better than others but I think the primary factor in obsolesence is the gadgets. There's something to be said for a new boat that's designed from the outset to handle modern electronics relative to retrofitting an older boat to bring it up to current standards.
survey survey survey
If you're serious about the boat, this is the sort of question you should take to a certified marine surveyor. Look for one who can provide an opinion about the boat's mechanical systems as well as hull, spars and rigging. A good surveyor's report will indicate what sort of expenses are looming in terms of repairs and replacements. You also want to look into the boat's ownership history. How many owners has it had, how much work have they had done on the boat, and has the boat ever been chartered. You also want to take a look at how many hours are on the engine, remembering that too few is probably just as bad as too many. Ultimately, there are 1996 430s out there in better-than-new condition, and there are 1996 430s out there that have been trashed and/or neglected. All you need to do is determine to which group the boat you're looking at belongs. It would be naive, by the way, to expect to buy any 40+ foot vessel, even a brand new one, and not incur major expenses in the future. Yachting is a pastime that structures itself aroung major expenses on an ongoing basis.
If you're serious about the boat, this is the sort of question you should take to a certified marine surveyor. Look for one who can provide an opinion about the boat's mechanical systems as well as hull, spars and rigging. A good surveyor's report will indicate what sort of expenses are looming in terms of repairs and replacements. You also want to look into the boat's ownership history. How many owners has it had, how much work have they had done on the boat, and has the boat ever been chartered. You also want to take a look at how many hours are on the engine, remembering that too few is probably just as bad as too many. Ultimately, there are 1996 430s out there in better-than-new condition, and there are 1996 430s out there that have been trashed and/or neglected. All you need to do is determine to which group the boat you're looking at belongs. It would be naive, by the way, to expect to buy any 40+ foot vessel, even a brand new one, and not incur major expenses in the future. Yachting is a pastime that structures itself aroung major expenses on an ongoing basis.
Do it
I would not hesitate to buy a 10 yo hull which surveyed well. 10 years is on the young side of boats I've bought. You will spend money on replacing sails and equipment but the buying price should reflect that and the diminishing value of the boat.
I would not hesitate to buy a 10 yo hull which surveyed well. 10 years is on the young side of boats I've bought. You will spend money on replacing sails and equipment but the buying price should reflect that and the diminishing value of the boat.
Trust But Verify
With the construction techniques of that era Hunter, you should be able to trust that a 10 year old hull is still in good shape. But, as mentioned below, verify this with a marine survey. The bigger big-money issue with a boat of that era is the standing rigging. In the South, standing rigging has an average safe life of 10 years, and then replacement is often recommended. On my 1994 37.5, the rigging had to be replaced after exactly 10 years. The rigging looked perfectly fine, but when the rigger stress tested the backstay during a preventive maintenance check of the boat, the backstay snapped like a guitar string. Replacing the standing rigging was an expense of over $10,000 on my boat and would be even more on a 43. This is a major safety issue and a huge additional cost to people buying a boat of that era. It should be factored into the purchase price when comparing used boats of the same era. Add ~$10,000 to the value of a boat that's had its standing rigging replaced. Subtract ~$10,000 from the value of a boat that hasn't.
With the construction techniques of that era Hunter, you should be able to trust that a 10 year old hull is still in good shape. But, as mentioned below, verify this with a marine survey. The bigger big-money issue with a boat of that era is the standing rigging. In the South, standing rigging has an average safe life of 10 years, and then replacement is often recommended. On my 1994 37.5, the rigging had to be replaced after exactly 10 years. The rigging looked perfectly fine, but when the rigger stress tested the backstay during a preventive maintenance check of the boat, the backstay snapped like a guitar string. Replacing the standing rigging was an expense of over $10,000 on my boat and would be even more on a 43. This is a major safety issue and a huge additional cost to people buying a boat of that era. It should be factored into the purchase price when comparing used boats of the same era. Add ~$10,000 to the value of a boat that's had its standing rigging replaced. Subtract ~$10,000 from the value of a boat that hasn't.
Hull age
I have an '84 Legend 40 and no blisters etc. Everything works, only minor updating here and there. Graphic Maniac
I have an '84 Legend 40 and no blisters etc. Everything works, only minor updating here and there. Graphic Maniac
standing rigging
Bob Standing rigging replacement was $10,000? I haven't done it so I'm only going on what I've heard...what I've heard is more like $3000 or $4000. Anyone else care to chime in?
Bob Standing rigging replacement was $10,000? I haven't done it so I'm only going on what I've heard...what I've heard is more like $3000 or $4000. Anyone else care to chime in?
I replaced
...the headstay on my boat in '04. It cost me $125.00. I replaced the backstay in '01 with spectra and a flicker. Total cost for that was $150.00. I will be replacing the shrouds at the end of this year. I expect that should run from $125 to $75 each dependent on the length. I can't imagine $4000 never mind $10,000, ridiculous!
...the headstay on my boat in '04. It cost me $125.00. I replaced the backstay in '01 with spectra and a flicker. Total cost for that was $150.00. I will be replacing the shrouds at the end of this year. I expect that should run from $125 to $75 each dependent on the length. I can't imagine $4000 never mind $10,000, ridiculous!
Call any rigger
and get a quote for replacement of all standing rigging. If your boat is in the water, it is a two man job. One man has to repeatedly go up the mast and remove each piece of rigging after they've placed a temporary support in place with a halyard. Then they have to measure the piece and properly swage fittings to the wire. Both riggers will work at this to speed the process up. Then return up the mast and install the new piece of rigging. Repeat this process for each piece of rigging. It's very time-consuming at the hourly rate for two professional riggers. Add to that the very considerable cost of material. Check any catalog and you'll see, for instance, that sta-lok terminals can easily cost more than $50 each. Type 316 stainless rigging wire is $4 per foot for 7/16". How many feet of rigging wire are there in a big boat's standing rigging? Lots. When it's all done, the rig needs to be tuned. But, if you wanted to have this all done with the mast down, and make it a one man job, you'd have to add the cost of hauling the boat, dropping the mast, yard time, possibly painting the bottom if your paint cannot be exposed to air, and reversing the whole process. For you winter guys who take your boat out of the water for months each year, this cost might be part of your annual nut. But, in Florida, the boats are used year-round. And in this area, the total cost adds up to what I cited earlier. If anyone can trust the integrity of the entire rig, and therefore boat, to their amateur swaging skills, then all the professional labor costs can be eliminated. In the years that I've owned my boat, I've contracted out only two jobs. First, repair of the hull, toerail, and deck after damage from Hurricane Georges. Second, replacement of the standing rigging.
and get a quote for replacement of all standing rigging. If your boat is in the water, it is a two man job. One man has to repeatedly go up the mast and remove each piece of rigging after they've placed a temporary support in place with a halyard. Then they have to measure the piece and properly swage fittings to the wire. Both riggers will work at this to speed the process up. Then return up the mast and install the new piece of rigging. Repeat this process for each piece of rigging. It's very time-consuming at the hourly rate for two professional riggers. Add to that the very considerable cost of material. Check any catalog and you'll see, for instance, that sta-lok terminals can easily cost more than $50 each. Type 316 stainless rigging wire is $4 per foot for 7/16". How many feet of rigging wire are there in a big boat's standing rigging? Lots. When it's all done, the rig needs to be tuned. But, if you wanted to have this all done with the mast down, and make it a one man job, you'd have to add the cost of hauling the boat, dropping the mast, yard time, possibly painting the bottom if your paint cannot be exposed to air, and reversing the whole process. For you winter guys who take your boat out of the water for months each year, this cost might be part of your annual nut. But, in Florida, the boats are used year-round. And in this area, the total cost adds up to what I cited earlier. If anyone can trust the integrity of the entire rig, and therefore boat, to their amateur swaging skills, then all the professional labor costs can be eliminated. In the years that I've owned my boat, I've contracted out only two jobs. First, repair of the hull, toerail, and deck after damage from Hurricane Georges. Second, replacement of the standing rigging.
Bite the bullet
I purchased a 91 Passage 42 a year ago and had to replace the standing rigging complete as recommended by survey. In southern Florida a normal requirement every 15 - 20 years. It is not the wire which fails, it's the fittings which developed hairline cracks and corrosion inside the swage and fitting. Even Hunter acknowledges this condition. The best job for a fair price (after getting 4 estimates) you will get from "Nance & Underwood" in Ft.Lauderdale. Including unstepping the mast plus hauling you will spend close to $7000.00; A B&R rig could be replaced in place, (piece by piece) but it is recommended to unstep the mast. If you get into some heavy weather sailing it is money well spend.
I purchased a 91 Passage 42 a year ago and had to replace the standing rigging complete as recommended by survey. In southern Florida a normal requirement every 15 - 20 years. It is not the wire which fails, it's the fittings which developed hairline cracks and corrosion inside the swage and fitting. Even Hunter acknowledges this condition. The best job for a fair price (after getting 4 estimates) you will get from "Nance & Underwood" in Ft.Lauderdale. Including unstepping the mast plus hauling you will spend close to $7000.00; A B&R rig could be replaced in place, (piece by piece) but it is recommended to unstep the mast. If you get into some heavy weather sailing it is money well spend.
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