Any tricks for heaving to with the B&R? No matter what I try, the boat just keeps sailing - sometimes in circles! Haven't tried backwinded jib, helm hard over and no main yet - might that work? When I have the main up and the jib backwinded, the jib just acts likes it sheeted in tightly.
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Heave to
My 340 heaves to nicely. I sheet in both the jib and main fairly tight, head up and then back the jib, wheel hard over. Sometimes it takes a little playing with to get everything balanced but it can be done. If the main is eased way out the backed jib tries to push the bow around so you might try bringing the main in a bit. Haven't tried it w/o main though... Have fun!
My 340 heaves to nicely. I sheet in both the jib and main fairly tight, head up and then back the jib, wheel hard over. Sometimes it takes a little playing with to get everything balanced but it can be done. If the main is eased way out the backed jib tries to push the bow around so you might try bringing the main in a bit. Haven't tried it w/o main though... Have fun!
practical limitation of hull design
It may be possible to simulate heaving to in moderate weather by playing with the rudder/sail angles of a fin keel boat such as these. The reality is that there are limitations in strong seas with this design and if you ever find yourself in circumstances requiring heaving to, I would be highly skeptical of the result with any hunter, particularly with designs absent strong mast rigging. Please don't take this as a criticism of hunters, just a reality check of any boat not designed specifically for blue water. Don
It may be possible to simulate heaving to in moderate weather by playing with the rudder/sail angles of a fin keel boat such as these. The reality is that there are limitations in strong seas with this design and if you ever find yourself in circumstances requiring heaving to, I would be highly skeptical of the result with any hunter, particularly with designs absent strong mast rigging. Please don't take this as a criticism of hunters, just a reality check of any boat not designed specifically for blue water. Don
only with reefed main...
I found it possible to heave-to with my '29.5'. -with the fully batten mainsail option-. But due to the shallow(wing) draft and the 40-45 degrees to wind in this position, I doubt if in harsh weather it will hold for long.
I found it possible to heave-to with my '29.5'. -with the fully batten mainsail option-. But due to the shallow(wing) draft and the 40-45 degrees to wind in this position, I doubt if in harsh weather it will hold for long.
The Ole Heave To
I have heard heaving to described as a battle between your jib which is trying to turn you to leeward and your rudder which is trying to turn you to windward. In order for the heave to to work, the two have to be in balance. If the, boat is coming about, the rudder is winning the battle and you need to ease off the helm. If, as in your case, the genoa seems to be winning the battle, you need to depower the sail. How about a couple of wraps around the furler before heaving to? Mind you I haven't needed to try this, but in theory it should work. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
I have heard heaving to described as a battle between your jib which is trying to turn you to leeward and your rudder which is trying to turn you to windward. In order for the heave to to work, the two have to be in balance. If the, boat is coming about, the rudder is winning the battle and you need to ease off the helm. If, as in your case, the genoa seems to be winning the battle, you need to depower the sail. How about a couple of wraps around the furler before heaving to? Mind you I haven't needed to try this, but in theory it should work. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
An Added Thought
An Added Thought. Miles' suggestion about sheeting in the main a bit should work as well. Increased power to the main should increase weather helm and will also make the rudder more powerful in the aforementioned battle.
An Added Thought. Miles' suggestion about sheeting in the main a bit should work as well. Increased power to the main should increase weather helm and will also make the rudder more powerful in the aforementioned battle.
Heaving To (some of the finer points)
With regard to Don's comments: we have never had any trouble heaving both our Legend 43 ("Rivendel II") or Bob Buchanan's Legend 33.5 ("Windtryst") to in force 7 or 8 winds plus big waves and/or swells. Whether we would even want to consider heaving to in Force 9, 10 or higher is questionable, given that our Galerider drogue and Paratech sea anchor do provide us with safer options; particularly against the risk of coming beam to the waves and perhaps being rolled. I agree with Gary's description of the heave-to process primarily being a battle between rudder and jib. For the purpose of this discussion, however, not only the genoa but any surfaces forward of the CLR (Center of Lateral Resistance) that try to make the bow blow off (while hove to) should be considered as "jibs". Similarly, any wind resistance aft of the CLR that tends to make the vessel round up (e.g. a more or less strongly reefed main or trysail) will tend to help the rudder win. A year or two ago there were several long discussions on usenet, e.g. on the rec.boats.cruising newsgroup, from which I quote the following segments which may provide some food for thought here: "(Fred Leverton's, 1997 post) I once "hove to" in winds of 45-50 knots gusting over 60 knots in a 28ft. fin keel yacht. No sails up at all, tiller lashed down to lee. The boat would come up almost head to wind with wind pressure on mast alone, then fall off 30 - 40 degrees until there was enough drive to bring her up to the wind again. Did this for about 4 hours until the worst of the storm had passed. The movement of the boat was quite comfortable, in fact I went below and had breakfast whilst weathering the storm". (Ken Maki asked Fred Leverton
Also, any experience combining both methods (i.e. drogues and heaving-to)? Seems like a droque/sea anchor would reduce the "yo-yo" effect and rate of drift while heaved-to. (Since Fred did not respond Henk Meuzelaar commented to Ken Maki Both the "yo-yoing" (yawing) and the "drift" (actually a combination of making way and drifting) are essential to the mechanism of the heaving-to process. In an environment where the forces and directions of wind and waves vary every second a truly stable boat position can only be achieved by being hard aground. The clever trick of heaving to is that the two corrective principles: (1) rudder action (progressively stronger as the vessel bears off and starts making more headway); and (2) windage before the mast (progressively stronger as the vessel heads up and windward bow with or without backwinded jib spill less wind), do not have to be perfectly matched, or even in phase, to achieve the amazing equilibrium we call "hove to". Under perfectly stable wind and wave conditions it is conceivable that the vessel stops yawing and slowly makes way ( drifts) in a more or less straight line. However, one cannot permanently take all headway off without completely depowering the rudder and thus breaking the hove-to position. Although headway is an essential part of heaving to, the amount of speed can be increased by: increasing headsail area; sheeting in the main (assuming it was still hoisted); running the engine slowly in forward, and - presumably - by centering the rudder a bit more. All of these (except increasing the headsail area) may make the rudder powerful enough to force a tack and break the hove-to position. Diminishing speed can be effected by reducing head sail area (if necessary, relying solely on the sail-like action of the windward bow), increasing rudder and propellor drag, or employing a special drag device from stern or quarter. All of these (except reducing head sail area) depower the rudder far more than the sail, thus risking a loss of the hove-to position and, possibly, a jibe. (afterwards, yet another sailor commented that he simply lets the clew of the backwinded jib slip a bit to leeward to depower the jib; IMHO this is a great idea). Finally, allow me to give a recent example of successful fine-tuning of the heave-to position: A few months ago "Rivendel II" was hove to on rudder and staysail, several hundred NM off the NorthEast coast of Australia in 30-40 knot tradewinds and big swells. Because of electrical problems (dead house batteries) we were trying to figure out whether to continue on to Vanuatu or to return to Queensland. HOW's very own George Kornreich was on board as a crew member and can attest that "Rivendel II' held the heave-to without any problem, except for the uncomfortable motion caused by confused seas which would tend to bring us beam to the swells from time to time. According to the above-cited wisdom we either needed to depower the jib or power up the rudder in order to keep the bow more directly into wind and waves. When letting the staysail clew slip a bit to leeward did not help enough we hoisted the triple-reefed main and put just a little tension on the mainsheet. This did the trick and gave us time to come to a consensus (we ended up sailing back to Queensland for battery replacement). Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
With regard to Don's comments: we have never had any trouble heaving both our Legend 43 ("Rivendel II") or Bob Buchanan's Legend 33.5 ("Windtryst") to in force 7 or 8 winds plus big waves and/or swells. Whether we would even want to consider heaving to in Force 9, 10 or higher is questionable, given that our Galerider drogue and Paratech sea anchor do provide us with safer options; particularly against the risk of coming beam to the waves and perhaps being rolled. I agree with Gary's description of the heave-to process primarily being a battle between rudder and jib. For the purpose of this discussion, however, not only the genoa but any surfaces forward of the CLR (Center of Lateral Resistance) that try to make the bow blow off (while hove to) should be considered as "jibs". Similarly, any wind resistance aft of the CLR that tends to make the vessel round up (e.g. a more or less strongly reefed main or trysail) will tend to help the rudder win. A year or two ago there were several long discussions on usenet, e.g. on the rec.boats.cruising newsgroup, from which I quote the following segments which may provide some food for thought here: "(Fred Leverton's, 1997 post) I once "hove to" in winds of 45-50 knots gusting over 60 knots in a 28ft. fin keel yacht. No sails up at all, tiller lashed down to lee. The boat would come up almost head to wind with wind pressure on mast alone, then fall off 30 - 40 degrees until there was enough drive to bring her up to the wind again. Did this for about 4 hours until the worst of the storm had passed. The movement of the boat was quite comfortable, in fact I went below and had breakfast whilst weathering the storm". (Ken Maki asked Fred Leverton
Also, any experience combining both methods (i.e. drogues and heaving-to)? Seems like a droque/sea anchor would reduce the "yo-yo" effect and rate of drift while heaved-to. (Since Fred did not respond Henk Meuzelaar commented to Ken Maki Both the "yo-yoing" (yawing) and the "drift" (actually a combination of making way and drifting) are essential to the mechanism of the heaving-to process. In an environment where the forces and directions of wind and waves vary every second a truly stable boat position can only be achieved by being hard aground. The clever trick of heaving to is that the two corrective principles: (1) rudder action (progressively stronger as the vessel bears off and starts making more headway); and (2) windage before the mast (progressively stronger as the vessel heads up and windward bow with or without backwinded jib spill less wind), do not have to be perfectly matched, or even in phase, to achieve the amazing equilibrium we call "hove to". Under perfectly stable wind and wave conditions it is conceivable that the vessel stops yawing and slowly makes way ( drifts) in a more or less straight line. However, one cannot permanently take all headway off without completely depowering the rudder and thus breaking the hove-to position. Although headway is an essential part of heaving to, the amount of speed can be increased by: increasing headsail area; sheeting in the main (assuming it was still hoisted); running the engine slowly in forward, and - presumably - by centering the rudder a bit more. All of these (except increasing the headsail area) may make the rudder powerful enough to force a tack and break the hove-to position. Diminishing speed can be effected by reducing head sail area (if necessary, relying solely on the sail-like action of the windward bow), increasing rudder and propellor drag, or employing a special drag device from stern or quarter. All of these (except reducing head sail area) depower the rudder far more than the sail, thus risking a loss of the hove-to position and, possibly, a jibe. (afterwards, yet another sailor commented that he simply lets the clew of the backwinded jib slip a bit to leeward to depower the jib; IMHO this is a great idea). Finally, allow me to give a recent example of successful fine-tuning of the heave-to position: A few months ago "Rivendel II" was hove to on rudder and staysail, several hundred NM off the NorthEast coast of Australia in 30-40 knot tradewinds and big swells. Because of electrical problems (dead house batteries) we were trying to figure out whether to continue on to Vanuatu or to return to Queensland. HOW's very own George Kornreich was on board as a crew member and can attest that "Rivendel II' held the heave-to without any problem, except for the uncomfortable motion caused by confused seas which would tend to bring us beam to the swells from time to time. According to the above-cited wisdom we either needed to depower the jib or power up the rudder in order to keep the bow more directly into wind and waves. When letting the staysail clew slip a bit to leeward did not help enough we hoisted the triple-reefed main and put just a little tension on the mainsheet. This did the trick and gave us time to come to a consensus (we ended up sailing back to Queensland for battery replacement). Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
Heaving To; Tom Parrent's problem
Tom, My apologies. I became so preoccupied with the mechanics of heaving to (one of my favorite topics) that I completely forgot to answer your question. Your heave-to problem falls under the categorie of too much power for rudder and main and too little power for jib, bow and other windresistance areas forward of the CLR. As a result you simply tack straight through the token resistance of the jib, sometimes even followed by a jibe as the now normally drawing jib keeps bearing off (now helped by the rudder!) while the backwinded main is no longer a match. So, then you jibe. Now the jib is again backwinded and the strongly drawing main heads the vessel up for it's second tack, and so on and so on. This is when you are starting to run around in circles...... The solution: reduce the power of the (rudder main) duo. The most simple measure is to indeed to drop the main altogether (or, at least get the main to luff by slacking the mainsheet and pushing the boom to leeward). Fine-tuning tips can be found in my first post. Success! Flying Dutchman
Tom, My apologies. I became so preoccupied with the mechanics of heaving to (one of my favorite topics) that I completely forgot to answer your question. Your heave-to problem falls under the categorie of too much power for rudder and main and too little power for jib, bow and other windresistance areas forward of the CLR. As a result you simply tack straight through the token resistance of the jib, sometimes even followed by a jibe as the now normally drawing jib keeps bearing off (now helped by the rudder!) while the backwinded main is no longer a match. So, then you jibe. Now the jib is again backwinded and the strongly drawing main heads the vessel up for it's second tack, and so on and so on. This is when you are starting to run around in circles...... The solution: reduce the power of the (rudder main) duo. The most simple measure is to indeed to drop the main altogether (or, at least get the main to luff by slacking the mainsheet and pushing the boom to leeward). Fine-tuning tips can be found in my first post. Success! Flying Dutchman
Balance the Sails
You have to balance the sails when you first heave to. Hunters tend to be very light, therefore they react quickly-especially in high winds. The key is to tack through the wind and backwind the jib (and rudder hard over) very slowly. Also, have your main flogging. When the jib backwinds (especially in high wind), the bow tends to really fall off in a hurry (feels like your going to spin a circle). This is where the previously-flogging main comes in. If the bow falls off too much, the main should be in a place where it then fills and accelerates the bow back to windward. Likewise, if the bow then goes too much to windward, the main starts to flog again and the jib takes over. The bow then wanders between the limits of the main and jib power. Once the boat settles down into this gap, you can fine tune sheeting in the main slightly to prevent the bow from wandering back and forth too much. Then lock your wheel down and relax.
You have to balance the sails when you first heave to. Hunters tend to be very light, therefore they react quickly-especially in high winds. The key is to tack through the wind and backwind the jib (and rudder hard over) very slowly. Also, have your main flogging. When the jib backwinds (especially in high wind), the bow tends to really fall off in a hurry (feels like your going to spin a circle). This is where the previously-flogging main comes in. If the bow falls off too much, the main should be in a place where it then fills and accelerates the bow back to windward. Likewise, if the bow then goes too much to windward, the main starts to flog again and the jib takes over. The bow then wanders between the limits of the main and jib power. Once the boat settles down into this gap, you can fine tune sheeting in the main slightly to prevent the bow from wandering back and forth too much. Then lock your wheel down and relax.
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