Halloween cruise

Oct 22, 2014
16,101
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Steve at SV Panope helped me decide. I was focused on the Mantus and the Spade. I liked how both preformed. I chose Mantus as cost was 20% less than the Spade. The Spade had a beefier shank but it’s set geometry was not as good as the Mantus. The weight downward force, on the tip of the Mantus and the less cost tipped the scale for me.
 
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forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
Steve at SV Panope helped me decide. ...set geometry was not as good as the Mantus. The weight downward force, on the tip of the Mantus and the less cost tipped the scale for me.
Agree.

I went to Anacortes today to test out some anchor templates, none of which was as precision cut as Hayden's, but that's another issue. Next time I'll use a box cutter instead of a steak knife. I like the fit of the M2 the best, and I talked to Mantus, it will be available this week, but it doesn't have seven years of history that the M1 does. The M1 fits, but does anyone think the shank+swivel being so close to the gypsy going to be an issue? I've never had a windlass. And of course the roll bar will interfere with the tack line for spinnaker, there's not a lot of options to route around it, so I'd probably have to take the anchor off to use it. Decisions, decisions...
 

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Apr 5, 2009
1,620
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
I assume that your light-weight prototype anchors have the same problem as mine did with lack of holding power due to that floating issue.:biggrin:
I cannot speak to the closeness of the swivel to the gypsy. As for the spin tack fouling on the roll bar, that has not been a problem so far.
 
Apr 5, 2009
1,620
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
About 20 minutes after I swung around on the current change at the side of the Dugwalla channel my drift alarms went off and it looked like the Mantus had not reset and was dragging. By the time I got dressed and up to the cockpit the boat was tracing an arc with not more drag. My plotter showed a perfect 180º swing and then a solid swing arc. Then there was a straight line about 60' down current and a new solid swing arc.
It seemed strange that it would hold, drag 60' then stop and hold again. Then I remembered that my new anchor also has 30' of 5/16 chain. I assumed that the first "set" was held by the chain on the bottom. About 20 minutes into the new flood, the chain started to slide across the bottom and when it got to the anchor it stopped.
I must have been correct because two hours later when I headed out, the current was running at over 3 knots and about 8 knots of wind had come in on the nose but I was still on the same arc with no further movement. Love that 35lb Mantus!
 
Oct 22, 2014
16,101
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
To extend the sitting of the anchor a bit out further you might consider the Mantus anchor mate.
6259217B-3697-4E7C-B10D-6E0E432E6244.jpeg

You can see here the anchor mate contacts the anchor tip holding it securely. The anchor shank is further out than shown in your image. This gives you space for your spinnaker tack and room for the shank and the swivel in front of the windlass.

I also note you will be holding the anchor in place with an anchor lock or a tie down of some sort so there will be no strain on the windlass will the anchor is sitting there or while you are cruising.
 

forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
To extend the sitting of the anchor a bit out further you might consider the Mantus anchor mate.

You can see here the anchor mate contacts the anchor tip holding it securely. The anchor shank is further out than shown in your image. This gives you space for your spinnaker tack and room for the shank and the swivel in front of the windlass.
I was just looking at this, it might give enough clearance for both. The roller is already a long ways out there though, maybe pushing the anchor out only a couple inches further would be enough, and I think I'd still want the anchor mate to prevent it from rocking back and forth (Hayden mentioned that in one of the earlier posts.) Hmn.

I hope I get a free Mantus t-shirt or something...anchor, swivel, mate, bridle...what's next?
 
Apr 5, 2009
1,620
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Does it rub at all?
On mine it does not but comparing my photo to yours it appears that my anchor projects quite a bit farther forward from my spin tack then does yours. I do not think it would hang up but you might get some abrasion on the tack line.
One thing I am curious about. You are attaching your tack to the anchor roller but what is holding it in place. The tack on an A-symm has a really big load when reaching in a breeze. I have a 16 power wrench and there have been times when I could not trim down the tack. On my C30 tall rig, the anchor roller is a part of the bow sprit stem fitting so it is directly connected to the bob-stay so I have never been concerned about this load. Have you given any thoughts to adding a bob-stay or solid strut to your roller to hold it down? If you use a solid strut, it would also help to hold it up under anchor rode loads. Sorry, Engineers always look at that stuff.
 

forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
On mine it does not but comparing my photo to yours it appears that my anchor projects quite a bit farther forward from my spin tack then does yours.
I think I pulled the anchor further up on the roller than you did, with yours being the more likely resting position (or further out using the anchor mate as jssailem suggested, so I think the roll bar would be more angled like yours. I highlighted in yellow the area on your pic that is resting on the roller in my pictures.
1605198289438.png


You are attaching your tack to the anchor roller but what is holding it in place. The tack on an A-symm has a really big load when reaching in a breeze. I have a 16 power wrench and there have been times when I could not trim down the tack. On my C30 tall rig, the anchor roller is a part of the bow sprit stem fitting so it is directly connected to the bob-stay so I have never been concerned about this load. Have you given any thoughts to adding a bob-stay or solid strut to your roller to hold it down? If you use a solid strut, it would also help to hold it up under anchor rode loads. Sorry, Engineers always look at that stuff.
Yeah, good catch!! I've only sea trialed this boat so limited experience with it so far and not much spinnaker experience either, but enough to run it in light winds. However, I have noticed the bow roller is out there without much support underneath for force either direction. I have seen some 3700's with a solid strut of maybe 1/4 to 1/3 the length of the roller underneath, so somebody thought about it, but I haven't looked in to it much yet. I do know that the roller is at an angle to the bow, and not sure if they changed that in newer models to make it simpler to add support or not. But yes, I am aware but don't know what, if anything, to do about it, especially with the angle.

I am also worried about it a bit, especially with the Mantus M1, that the combo of long roller, not supported, and large fluke area scoop style anchor out on the end of it, that the right wave or wake (those tugs!) might put enough leverage on it to bend it. Not a problem at anchor with a bridle. So that's one of my con's for the Mantus anchors in general...something like the Excel would be seem to be much less force on the roller if it were to be buried in a wave, not that I'm qualified to calculate that, but that's the way it appears to me.

I'd love your thoughts on it all though!

1605198961572.png
 
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Oct 22, 2014
16,101
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
I think you are smart to consider some sort of reinforcement of the bow roller whether you continue attaching the sail there or not. When I first saw the images it waved a red flag for me with or without the sail attached. At least on the bow (port side of the furler), it looks like you have space to fashion a short sprit to handle the Asymmetrical.
 
Apr 5, 2009
1,620
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
I think that the anchor roller will be located pretty good for the tack line so you probably do not need a spin sprit. I would add a struct underneath the roller to take the downward load from the anchor line and the upward load from the spinn. Any decent SS fabricator should be able to get you set up. It could bolt to both the bow and the roller to simplify installation.
 
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forbin

.
Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
I would add a struct underneath the roller to take the downward load from the anchor line and the upward load from the spinn. It could bolt to both the bow and the roller to simplify installation.
Thanks, I'll do some more investigating but it sounds like a good idea and relatively simple.

I still haven't decided on an anchor...haha.
 

forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
I still haven't decided on an anchor...haha.
I got the 45# M1 today. Done. This is definitely a “if it ain’t broke...” scenario.

I’m tired of driving back and forth to Anacortes but I’ll probably go tomorrow just to get it all hooked up.
 
Nov 21, 2007
519
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
When we added our Code 0, we also had a bobstay reinforcement fabricated for our anchor roller. I don't have any better photos than this, sorry. I think it looks a little crude, but hopefully it does what it needs to do.
And, since the original title of this thread was "Halloween Cruise", we were out on Halloween, and this was definitely my favorite encounter of the day!
Bobstay - 1.jpegBobstay - 1 (1).jpegPacman - 1.jpeg
 

forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
And, since the original title of this thread was "Halloween Cruise", we were out on Halloween, and this was definitely my favorite encounter of the day!
Haha, very clever!

When we added our Code 0, we also had a bobstay reinforcement fabricated for our anchor roller. I don't have any better photos than this, sorry. I think it looks a little crude, but hopefully it does what it needs to do.
Thanks for the pics. It looks like your roller is offset as well, do you recall if that's why you went with the design you did? May I ask what it cost?

Brian
 
Apr 5, 2009
1,620
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
With your offset roller you can install an offset strut. it does not need to attach directly to the bow. You can run it down to the top-sides in line with the rollers. Given how far out the roller extends, I would either add a solid strut if you plan to use the anchor on the roller or faithfully use a snubber so that the rode tension is not pulling down on the roller. If you do not have a strut, I would tension the spin halyard to the end of the roller when retrieving the anchor to take that downward force. It is too pretty to break off.
 
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Likes: jssailem
Nov 21, 2007
519
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
@forbin, yes the roller is offset, the large 'loop' is welded to the side of the roller. We had the installation done at CSR Marine on Shilshole Ave., I didn't have much to do with the design. The total cost was a little more than $850 two years ago. The invoice itemizes $217 in parts for a chrome double toggle and a water tight u-bolt, $166 in labor, and a $485 "sublet".
 

forbin

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Nov 4, 2013
161
Tartan 3700 Seattle - Elliot Bay
it does not need to attach directly to the bow. You can run it down to the top-sides in line with the rollers.
Got a drawing or pic? Trying to picture what you're suggesting (the not needing to attach to the bow part especially.)

faithfully use a snubber so that the rode tension is not pulling down on the roller.
Yep, planning on this.

I would tension the spin halyard to the end of the roller when retrieving the anchor to take that downward force.
Agreed, my prior boat had a similar bow roller but much lighter weight ground tackle, and even then I tried to be cautious.