Sorry to admit, I have finally put to rest the age-old question - is the 146 less prone to turtling than its narrower ratio 170 cousin... After 10 days of rain which dumped 14" here in Connecticut, followed by beautiful sun but 45 knot gusts, today promised to be a great day on the lake before winter sets in- winds at about 9-12 kts, water still warm, foliage turning. In an attempt to learn from experience, I wanted to outline things here, and see what you folks can add in addition to my perfect hindsight. What I neglected to do: -Test-flip the boat in August. Meant to - didn't. -Foam the mast - I have all the specs and the materials ready for when I pull her, but the plan was always to do this task once she is on the trailer in my yard. -Install the reefing hardware that I had bought a few weeks ago. (Just was talking to Hunter this morning suggesting that they ought to make that at least optional! However, I have been out in higher winds without reefing - not sure I would've felt the need, even if I could. What I though I would try was to furl the jib, to see how the boat would handle. I was just off close-hauled, teasing the main just on the verge of luffing, sometimes luffing, to allow for some margin of error with the very changeable winds on the lake. Fell off a bit to follow the wind change and keep the main full and a bit of a heel, when the wind continued to back. Tiller hard over - boom was not touching the water, but this time she just did not circle back into the wind! Those dreaded seconds when you realize you're gonna get wet...now I'm in the water, but the boat is staying on her side - yay!! So I go about the business of uncleating the sheets. Well, not 3 seconds passed before she decided to completely turtle. Climbed on the hull, pulled on CB - hah! That's not going to budge her. Was kinda close to the leeward shore, so started shouting, and some very kind folks came out of their homes to call for help. Got righted thanks to the crane boat from the Candlewood Lake Authority, who was out pulling bouys for the season. What they did to her to get her righted was scary but perfectly effective. Got a tow home from my marina, and am now madly baking big batches of my famous cookies for all parties involved! I was lucky that the water was still warmish, and to get such willing help. AND that the water was deep enough to not stick the mast, AND doing this in the only section of the lake wthh no choking weeds! And at least my reactions once overboard were mostly by the book. Glenn...I am DEFINITELY going to foam and seal the mast, put flotation in the boom!!! I can deal with a boat on its side - but turtled!!?? *yks Has anyone on their H170 or H146 experience they could share about sailing under main only in fresh winds? Did I lose maneuverability by doing that? Is reefing the main preferable to furling the jib when winds kick up? I'm guessing yes to that one. Rats - I can no longer be smug in having never turtled my sweet little 146! *cry (I will post pictures of all my improvements as I do them.) All 20/20 hindsight offered here will be grudgingly read and taken to heart!!
H146 turtles too, enquiring minds wanted to know!
- Thread starter Tereza
- Start date
- Status
Gotta Keep Moving
Tereza, Sounds like would have been fun without the turtle! Here's an excerpt from a Fall day here in central NY (with wetsuits) I posted last year. Since then I've gone with Baby Bob cause it was quick and easy. In the furture I'll foam but B Bob works for now. What I learned from that day, and what the experienced skipper knows, was to keep the boat moving. We sailed plenty with the leeward gunnel close to the water & occasionally taking water in from the leeward side. As long as we were making good headway she would not go over. The hull would however round up when heeled so far over. Don't know the science but did learn the feeling. Since then, whether sailing full or furled & reefed, I work to maintain good hull speed for the conditions. Here's from last October during a pause to tidy the reef: "Carl headed us up and feathered the tiller to keep the boom where I could work. I was on the leeward side when a moderate gust came along. The Mainsheet was cleated. Our headway was minimal. You know what happened...over we went! Not a hard knockdown but oh so very graceful. After simultanious 'OK's, I turned to see the mast float (dock fender) I rigged was working. Perfect. Proceded to uncleat the Mainsheet (jib was already furled) and swam around to the centerboard. Carl had backed away from the boat a little too far. He couldn't catch up as the wind took the boat and me downwind. Our Spotters were on the way to his rescue so I figured I'd right the boat & hop in. With just a light pull on the end of the centerboard she popped up surprisingly easy (note I had the blue bungee in place to prevent a slam..the board stayed fully extended). At this point, another valuable lesson. After righting, I had all I could do to just hold on. The wind took the boat quickly & forcefully. I could not pull her around. The upright hull just laid sideways to the wind and the wind had it's way. The lesson? Do not right her without having the bow line in your hand. I could have pulled her bow into the wind with the 20' I keep cleated at the bow, slowing her down and maintaining control had I been thinking. If not for the Spotters, we'd have been in real trouble. They picked Carl up and pulled close upwind so he could jump aboard. I just helplessly hung on to the stern and dragged along. After pulling me in we took a moment to catch our breath, trimmed the main and sailed close hauled back to the launch. So the lessons: 1. The most delicate and dangerous time is when you're still or nearly so...stay out of Irons! 2. Practice Tacking & Jibing for smooth transitions with minimal loss of speed 3. If you go over in strong winds, don't right the boat without the bowline in hand. 4. Use the Blue Bungee! A huge help and protects from a damaging slam." One other note...I find handling to be a bit sloppy with jib furled and Main reefed. Heeling is reduced to managable over a wider range of points of sail however. You won't point as high so caution is advised when heading up in fresh/variable breezes. That's the most likely time you'll go over due to loss of hull speed. When sailing furled and reefed I head off a bit more so as not to push my luck...especially when it's snowing
Take Care, Joe
Tereza, Sounds like would have been fun without the turtle! Here's an excerpt from a Fall day here in central NY (with wetsuits) I posted last year. Since then I've gone with Baby Bob cause it was quick and easy. In the furture I'll foam but B Bob works for now. What I learned from that day, and what the experienced skipper knows, was to keep the boat moving. We sailed plenty with the leeward gunnel close to the water & occasionally taking water in from the leeward side. As long as we were making good headway she would not go over. The hull would however round up when heeled so far over. Don't know the science but did learn the feeling. Since then, whether sailing full or furled & reefed, I work to maintain good hull speed for the conditions. Here's from last October during a pause to tidy the reef: "Carl headed us up and feathered the tiller to keep the boom where I could work. I was on the leeward side when a moderate gust came along. The Mainsheet was cleated. Our headway was minimal. You know what happened...over we went! Not a hard knockdown but oh so very graceful. After simultanious 'OK's, I turned to see the mast float (dock fender) I rigged was working. Perfect. Proceded to uncleat the Mainsheet (jib was already furled) and swam around to the centerboard. Carl had backed away from the boat a little too far. He couldn't catch up as the wind took the boat and me downwind. Our Spotters were on the way to his rescue so I figured I'd right the boat & hop in. With just a light pull on the end of the centerboard she popped up surprisingly easy (note I had the blue bungee in place to prevent a slam..the board stayed fully extended). At this point, another valuable lesson. After righting, I had all I could do to just hold on. The wind took the boat quickly & forcefully. I could not pull her around. The upright hull just laid sideways to the wind and the wind had it's way. The lesson? Do not right her without having the bow line in your hand. I could have pulled her bow into the wind with the 20' I keep cleated at the bow, slowing her down and maintaining control had I been thinking. If not for the Spotters, we'd have been in real trouble. They picked Carl up and pulled close upwind so he could jump aboard. I just helplessly hung on to the stern and dragged along. After pulling me in we took a moment to catch our breath, trimmed the main and sailed close hauled back to the launch. So the lessons: 1. The most delicate and dangerous time is when you're still or nearly so...stay out of Irons! 2. Practice Tacking & Jibing for smooth transitions with minimal loss of speed 3. If you go over in strong winds, don't right the boat without the bowline in hand. 4. Use the Blue Bungee! A huge help and protects from a damaging slam." One other note...I find handling to be a bit sloppy with jib furled and Main reefed. Heeling is reduced to managable over a wider range of points of sail however. You won't point as high so caution is advised when heading up in fresh/variable breezes. That's the most likely time you'll go over due to loss of hull speed. When sailing furled and reefed I head off a bit more so as not to push my luck...especially when it's snowing
Take Care, JoeJoe - good knockdown tips
Joe - thanks for that info! One thing I had NOT thought of much is the possibility of the boat sailing away without me - but that is a very real possibility, perhaps almost a given, since knockdowns happen when winds are high. I note that you both had the jib furled and you did uncleat the mainsheet - and the boat still sailed away, even with you acting as a drogue??! Your reminder about always staying powered is good advice - a boat with no headway is at the mercy of wind and waves. That's what I was trying to do - maintain the balance between the main fully powered, but with enough play on the help to absorb a gust from the wrong direction. Theory and practiec don't always agree, though! I can see a day filled with sea-trials once the foam is in - this is not the same as flipping a sunfish! Tereza (BTW - "Blue Bungee" - is that a Linda Ronstat song? Or is that the bungee used to keep the centerboard in place??)
Joe - thanks for that info! One thing I had NOT thought of much is the possibility of the boat sailing away without me - but that is a very real possibility, perhaps almost a given, since knockdowns happen when winds are high. I note that you both had the jib furled and you did uncleat the mainsheet - and the boat still sailed away, even with you acting as a drogue??! Your reminder about always staying powered is good advice - a boat with no headway is at the mercy of wind and waves. That's what I was trying to do - maintain the balance between the main fully powered, but with enough play on the help to absorb a gust from the wrong direction. Theory and practiec don't always agree, though! I can see a day filled with sea-trials once the foam is in - this is not the same as flipping a sunfish! Tereza (BTW - "Blue Bungee" - is that a Linda Ronstat song? Or is that the bungee used to keep the centerboard in place??)
Love That Tune!
Tereza, Sure you know but without the Blue Bungee, if you end up in the Blue Bayou, would rather be on shore Bobbing Away Your Blues Yes, although mainsheet was uncleated, the hull preferred to lay sideways to to the wind and really took off! After I popped it upright I didn't grab ahold immediately so said a big Uh-Oh and swam like hell to catch up. Could have been big trouble! Joe
Tereza, Sure you know but without the Blue Bungee, if you end up in the Blue Bayou, would rather be on shore Bobbing Away Your Blues
Yes, although mainsheet was uncleated, the hull preferred to lay sideways to to the wind and really took off! After I popped it upright I didn't grab ahold immediately so said a big Uh-Oh and swam like hell to catch up. Could have been big trouble! JoeMast Float?
As a Newbie-any experience using the Hobie Mast float ? does it really prevent turtleing?
As a Newbie-any experience using the Hobie Mast float ? does it really prevent turtleing?
Click on 'Archive'
Search using 'Archive' in blue letters just above Forum Topic Listing main page. For Model use 146 and also try 170. Suggest one Keyword at a time for the following subjects: Foam Hobie Float So much has been posted, you'll need hours to read it all. Enjoy, Joe
Search using 'Archive' in blue letters just above Forum Topic Listing main page. For Model use 146 and also try 170. Suggest one Keyword at a time for the following subjects: Foam Hobie Float So much has been posted, you'll need hours to read it all. Enjoy, Joe
- Status