Free Boat

[sailormanbigd]

I have just been offered a free sailboat. Quite an undertaking, The boat had previously sank, all bulkheads removed, hell all everything's been removed. The interior is gutted. Its a morgan 33out island. The exterior is ok except the rubrail is broken all the way around. When i looked at it there was about 6-12 inches of water in the boat and junk floating about. The head was midships on its side... Anyway i have to move it from its current slip and transport it to a friends house some 30-40miles away. The sails are there, the main is probably abit ragged, and he has a jib that is not on the boat. So, I was thinking of having someone tow me out to open water...a couple of miles i think, then hoist and go. Then I will get someone to tow me in to the new slip. I have friends, wasn't thinking of asking stringers for assistance-slumming. Or, I can mount an outboard braket on the stern and try my yamaha 8hp high thrust 4 stroke to push it?????? Some ideas/suggestons certainly appreciated. I feel like a little kid on christmas morning. I have a four year plan to sell off and leave terraferma behind for as long as i can. That's probably how long it will take to get her in shape. Is the 33morgan oi a capable vessel? It sure is big. Thanks, Patrick

 

[Rich Stidger]

I think you got the short end of the deal

The seller should have paid you to take it.I had a Morgan 30 for 15 years. Nice sailboat and my family had some great times aboard. I think Charlie Morgan designed and built some nice boats- in their day.The sailboat you describe will probably require significantly MORE money to refurbish and repair than it will ever be worth. You could have bought the same boat in good shape for less money than you will spend on this one.I presume that you did not get a survey or your surveyor would have probably told you this same story. I would not undertake a trip like you describe in a boat of unknown history or condition. You said that there was 6" of water in the boat at the slip. I would question if this vessel is even seaworthy.If the offer is still an offer, do yourself a huge financial favor and decline.

 

[Chuck]

Insurance

In its present condition, it is unlikely that anyone would insure the vessel for the trip. If it sinks on the trip, the cost to raise/remove would be covered by you. Wouldn't be cheap, free is not always free. I agree with everything Rich has mentioned.

 

[sailormanbigd]

but, i want it

hey Rich, thanks for the information and for pooping on my dreams! I am an eternal dreamer. But, I also have no money. The boat comes with main and jib. It has a drowned diesel motor. So, my intentions are to get it to my friends-think FREE dock in hudson,fl. Then i will remove old motor, and install a used takeout-hopefully under 2k$. I can rebuild the bulkheads and bench seating-there already out of the boat. Sand and paint the exterior, cost 200-500$. And be out sailing a 15-30k boat for hopefully under 5k. I can do all the work myself. Quite handy at things. Yes I am alittle worried/concerned about delivering the boat-But its a big strong boat. The weather is predictable down here, I would never be out of sight of land. I have portable vhf and gps, oh and life jackets. Armed with determination and alot of time...the bottom has 2 inches of barnicles on it, i shall be successful in my endeavor. There are alot of marinas throughout the trip if it gets hairy. I am a risk taker, a doer, and will have a working boat by this summer, OK!!!

 

[Ross]

Without bulkheads there is no support

in the hull to keep its shape. The water inside is probably rainwater. I rebuilt a boat that was in better condition than this one and made it what I wanted. It was years of diligent work right beside my house and shop. Do you have the skills to build a house? I ask because a boat is far more difficult than a house. Plan to spend 300-400 dollars for books that cover the details on a project like this. Don Casey won't be anywhere near enough. Use your public library and the book stores new and used. If you don't have a band saw, a thickness planer, a 7 1/4 inch circular saw, a sabre saw, several drills and hand tools you will need to acquire these. I 4 1/2 inch right angle grinder with a sanding disk kit is indispensable. Do you have the self discipline to work on the boat instead of going sailing? You will need a large bench and several step ladders, some 2x12 planks for stageing at least 2 sets of saw horses. Don't forget safety equipment and your personal safety and protection.

 

[Ross]

Bigd, your reply to Rich displays cockeyed

optimism and not reality. You NEED to put that boat on the hard to be able to work on it properly. I can supply you with pictures of much of the work I did on Bietzpadlin. Everything on a boat takes longer there is no such thing as "straight, plumb and level. Water moves and when you are hoisting a 400 pound engine you don't want a power boat wake to roll your boat.EDIT to add: if you start looking you can probably find a functional boat docked on the hard for less than you project as a cost to refit this one.

 

[s sauer]

Why this Boat?

I've sailed this model over twenty years ago from New Jersey up the Delaware Bay and thru the C&D canal and down tha Chesapeake Bay; if it were in prime condition at its age it isn't a great or even a good sailing boat.Any boat in that condition is more liability than an asset and I don't know where anyone would value that boat at 15-30 k after being sunk and fixed up.There are derelict boats all over that get sold or given a way and take a couple years of someones time and money before being cycled back onto the discard pile again.I'd spend the same time working at something you enjoy that pays reasonably well; then put that money toward an older boat that hasn't been sunk.Someone already said it: Free isn't always Free.

 

[Steve Dion]

Any estimates of costs?

Do you have any estimates of costs?Do you need an engine?Do you need sails?Do you need an interior?Do you need a new cabin sole?Do you need new electrical?Engine $7000-10,000Sails $4000-6000Interior $1500-3000Cabin Sole $600Electrical $1000-3000Other assorted materials $???Transportation $???Try this for an idea of what it would cost for one that is floating and ready to sail!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Reality check

it's easy to allow dreams to overshadow good judgement which, by your own description, sounds like what you are doing. Lose the dream concept and take another look at how you described the boat.

 

[Ross]

Steve, The new engine must include

fuel system, exhaust system, propeller shaft, and batteries. Your cost estimate my be good if he does the all or most of the work.Your estimate for the interior will cover the cost of the wood but not the cabinet makes labor.The electrical is probably on the low side if he wants more than lights.The galley will need a complete refit. As will the head. I wanted a first class boat and had no regard for resale value. As a result I have a 1968 Islander full keel hull that I spent some what more than 30 thousand on complete with new engine, interior, and changes in the layout too numerous to list. My time and labor were spread out over a period of 9 years.

 

[CalebD]

I hate to join the choir but ...

just owning a working boat of this size costs money - even if your dock space is 'free'. There is no end to the maintenance demands of a working boat from batteries to zincs. You will eventually have to haul this boat out to remove the 2 - 3 inches of barnacles and do a bottom job (yourself) and thoroughly inspect the the hull and a boat yard will charge you at least $300 depending on how long it is out of the water. There might be the dreaded blisters in the hull which you can't see now which will require a long stay out of the water to fix properly. As much as this boat represents the dream for you keep in mind that the dream can quickly turn into a nightmare as others have pointed out.It is a boat buyers market out there and you can get some pretty good older boats for a lot less than you might think. A friend of mine (and his 3 boat partners) recently bought an Endeavor 32' for $10K with a working diesel. It is in good shape and is nearly blue water capable (needs new portlights - not the plastic kind and a few other items). The boat they bought was part of an estate sale so were able to low ball on the price. Check out this one near you: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/8110Put in a low ball offer for $10K and see what happens. You never know.About 5 years ago we (yes, I have a partner too) bought our current 1967 Tartan 27' for $4K. The previous owner had already bought an Irwin 32' which he was working on and was anxious to stop paying yard fees on his old girl. We got lucky as the gas engine still works as does nearly everything but it is not really a blue water boat. Annual budget for keeping this boat is over $1K.If you don't have a lot of money think long and hard about this free 'purchase'. They are offering it for free because they want the boat hauled out of their marina. Also think about finding someone to take on as a partner even if you do most of the work.Good luck with your dream.

 

[sailormanbigd]

OK, more info

I have been looking for a 30+ semi cruiser for a long time. I am aware of the amount of work/time involve to repair this boat. I won't be buying new anything, except maybe plumbing and electrical. The boat is floating on its own lines, and has acceptable topsides, decks, cockpit, wheel, running rigging, and i think the standing rigging is ok, but it will be replaced. I have owned 6 different sailboats over the last 27 years. All of them needed some work. The last one is sitting in my driveway-an oday 25, i have done some work to it, bought new main and two used genies, and all new blocks, mainsheets, cam cleats, etc. I bought the boat for 102.50 a year ago. I do alittle here and there, and i enjoy it. As far as bulkheads go, to maintain structural integrity, they can be bought and installed by me in a weekend for a couple hundred dollars worth of plywood. Then the boat is seaworthy. I know its a big undertaking, but i have friends inthe marine industry to get the motor-used, and info/help on the install. The tanks are there as well as the original engine so it is doable for me. I have never been in a financial situation to go out and buy new. Hell, you still have to buy stuff for new boats-bimini, anchors...The used boat market is hard. Most people want alot of money for a boat that needs alot of work. So, i think i am doing good. Hell i'm gonna try siling it back home the way it is. I will install a battery and good bilg pump(i already have several). I have three kids, money was spent raising them and now i spend alot to my ex-wife to take care of them.I can afford-free, and then i can upgrade, fix things as I can afford the money. How many of the "save your money,Buy a better boat, Forget about it" people out there are living from paycheck to paycheck? Patrick

 

[Ross]

Patrick , I would love to be able to watch you

work. You must be exceptionally skilled if you can take off the shape of the hull, tranfer it to blank plywood, cut it to fit and install it with all of the tabbing in one weekend.

 

[Rich (P303)]

euhh???

Sailorman... You can't be serious. There are more productive things you can do with your time! Like get a job or 2... then buy a boat that floats. You will have plenty of time to work on the good boat... wether you want to or not.

 

[Tim R.]

Go for it Patrick

Don't listen to the naysayers. The only way to find out if this is a good choice for you is to go ahead and do it. I like to hear about people more "energentic" about their dreams than me.Your estimates are a little off though. If you have worked on boats in the past then you should know it takes more time and money than originally thought. Get the boat hauled home and get to work.C'mon Ross, of all people you should be encouraging Patrick. Unless you think you are the only one able to restore a boat. If the boat is gutted, I would not sail her. Get a friend to tow you. This is a much safer option for a father of 3. Please keep us posted.Tim R.

 

[CalebD]

It sounds as if your mind is made up so go for it!

It is your life and your decision to make. You will use every bit of knowledge and skill you now have and by the time you are 'done' you will know a lot more. Be careful and be smart and you can do it. You will get all kinds of free advice from this forum and it's curmudgeons as you go through the process if you ask.Good luck with your dream even if it takes some time and a lot of effort.

 

[George16803]

I think that once your mind is made up and

you start this project, you find that all the people that have advised you not to undertake this project will get behind you and be more than willing to give you good advice and share their knowledge with you. This is a great forum with a lot of wonderful experienced sailors/boat owners that are always happy to share. Don't hesitate to post any questions you might have right here and be sure to keep us poste on your progress.Good Luck!!Georges/v French Kiss

 

[r.w.landau]

A new boat starts with a hull and a cabin-top.

If this is what you have, you will pay for all the parts of a new boat but install them into an old framework. How are the bones of the boat. If the bones are good, go for it. Know that most of the stainless screws and bolts may need to be replaced. That can be hundreds of dollars just for fasteners.I would sit down with a major marine catalog and do an estimate. I have bought two boats and spent over $7000.00 just refitting each the boat ($14,000) and that didn't include sails or a motor.Like Ross said, it is not structurally sound with out the bulkheads. Much care will be needed moving it. Every wave you hit will flex the boat where it should be supported. I would at least install some temp. support while in transit.I have to say that you have heard much wisdom here from others that have jumped in with both feet. I hope you use these guys as wise counsel and also a voice of experience as you evaluate your decision.Best to you!r.w.landau

 

[T37 Phil]

Trepidation

I understand the caution being urged by most responders. I get the impression though that Sailorman was more or less asking about advice on transporting it. If it's being moved a long distance over uncertain waters or in any but light winds then I'd worry about the missing bulkheads. Aside from safety concerns, you could do more damage to the boat. What's the structure like below the sole? I just read an article about newer high volume designs with a raised coach roof. It allows placement of substantial structural members below the sole, so that bulkhead integrity is less of an issue. Are the old bulkhead gone, or are they still usable as templates for making the new ones? Were you planning on doing that before transporting?As far as the grand project goes, I'd at least sketch out a good budget, maybe a four year plan kind of thing and try to stick to it. It sounds like you aren't planning to spend a lot of money up front, so maybe nothing to lose and a lot to gain. If unanticipated major problems arise, what is plan B, sell it, scrap it, let it sit?

 

[GuyT]

That feeling of a Kid on Christmas morning

will turn into a different feeling after hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars and you're boat is still not worth what you put into it.I would say walk away now cause there's only one thing that's free - TRASH !