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FCC Moves Ahead With 5G Regardless

Jan 11, 2014
7,657
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Perhaps with recent changes in Washington this decision will be reviewed. GPS clocks run many systems in the US and the world besides navigation. Cell phones rely on the GPS clocks, the power grid relies on GPS clocks, virtually any system that requires precise timing and coordination runs on GPS clocks.

Ajit Pai, the former head of the FCC was no friend to consumers.
 
Oct 22, 2014
15,722
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Oh Boy... Going back 40 years. Those boaters who rely on their GPS to guide their boat into harbor amy be finding the Break water instead. As if it wasn't already bad enough, can you imagine that 60ft yacht being given by and new boat owner who just input the route from one day marker to the next and then powering up the craft to get to the next stop a little early through the fog.

Progress.
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,657
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The new administration is reportedly looking into a new and emerging technology called LORAN....
Oh, how I miss those LORAN TD lines all over the chart.

The difference between LORAN and GPS in the early days of GPS was interesting. If you had LORAN coordinates the same coordinates would always take you back to the same spot. That spot however, might not align with the chart. GPS would always place you with a hundred yards or less of the place on the chart and seldom in the same exact place. LORAN had good repeatable accuracy, GPS had better location accuracy.

I remember getting my first LORAN C an Apelco unit with a 10 ft high antenna on the back of a 22 foot boat.
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,657
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I do not understand why it will affect GPS.

Here are the GPS frequency plans and note it is the "M-Code" which is new, not the GPS codes we use for navigation.
GPS Signal Plan - Navipedia

America's 5G Future
Jim...
Speaking as the son of an amateur radio operator who used to get phone calls about his father messing up the neighbor's TV reception, I think the issue is RF splatter and noise that can be generated. The noise may interfere with signal reception. It would be similar to driving past a broadcast radio station with that signal blasting over the station you were listening to.
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,520
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Speaking as the son of an amateur radio operator who used to get phone calls about his father messing up the neighbor's TV reception, I think the issue is RF splatter and noise that can be generated. The noise may interfere with signal reception. It would be similar to driving past a broadcast radio station with that signal blasting over the station you were listening to.
I was flying a hang glider in the 90s with a hi-8 video camera mounted on the glider. at one point in the flight I flew multiple passes in front of a relay tower on the peak of a mountain. when I got home and reviewed the footage I could clearly hear what was apparently TV audio that somehow transferred to the videos audio track each time I had passed in front of the antenna. weird things can happen. :)
 
Sep 25, 2008
6,237
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Sounds more like paranoia than anything else. No evidence exists of interference - it's all "may", might", "could happen",... Certainly, if there was any real evidence, test results or examples, it would be on every billboard.

Re: the example of ham radio interference - that was an artifact of the old days when 6M was a harmonic frequency of some OTA TV station allocations and with poor harmonic suppression and even poorer filters on TVs then, interference was problematic. But also easily cured.
Frankly, there isn't much to see here.
 
May 17, 2004
3,383
Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE Havre de Grace
Sounds more like paranoia than anything else. No evidence exists of interference - it's all "may", might", "could happen",... Certainly, if there was any real evidence, test results or examples, it would be on every billboard.
I tend to agree. Generally for navigation our precision requirements are pretty low. Plus or minus 50 or 100 feet should be just fine for keeping us going in the right direction. There are other cases where the precision needs are much higher, and some of those likely have more lobby strength than Ligado Networks. It seems unlikely that the change would degrade the system so severely that it would impact not just those high precision cases but also our needs.
 
May 24, 2004
6,746
CC 30 South Florida
Still trying to figure out what, if anything, there is here to be transparent about.
FCC has denied requests from NOAA and NASA for more debate on the issue. Letters from interested parties in Aviation, Marine Transportation, Military, Homeland Security have not been given consideration. The FCC is siding with a Private Company expected to make millions from the action. The history of said Company investors and board raises suspicions about the motives behind the FCC ruling. Is more needed to support questions about transparency?
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,657
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Sep 25, 2008
6,237
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
FCC has denied requests from NOOA and NASA for more debate on the issue. Letters from interested parties in Aviation, Marine Transportation, Military, Homeland Security have not been given consideration. The FCC is siding with a Private Company expected to make millions from the action. The history of said Company investors and board raises suspicions about the motives behind the FCC ruling. Is more needed to support questions about transparency?
Healthy skepticism is a good thing but all I’ve read are a bunch of supposition by those challenging the plan. It’s hard for the government to deny a petition for frequency allocation based solely on supposition.
If it’s transparency you seek, it should come from those objecting to show why. They haven’t...
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,657
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Healthy skepticism is a good thing but all I’ve read are a bunch of supposition by those challenging the plan. It’s hard for the government to deny a petition for frequency allocation based solely on supposition.
If it’s transparency you seek, it should come from those objecting to show why. They haven’t...
The DOD and the FAA take these kinds of questions very seriously. They object to granting the license to this one company for this part of the spectrum. When several government agencies object to what one agency is doing, we need to listen.
 
Apr 26, 2015
621
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
I was flying a hang glider in the 90s with a hi-8 video camera mounted on the glider. at one point in the flight I flew multiple passes in front of a relay tower on the peak of a mountain. when I got home and reviewed the footage I could clearly hear what was apparently TV audio that somehow transferred to the videos audio track each time I had passed in front of the antenna. weird things can happen. :)
You weren't flying at Sandia were you? We used to joke about putting aluminum foil in our underwear when we launched from the antenna site.
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,520
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
You weren't flying at Sandia were you? We used to joke about putting aluminum foil in our underwear when we launched from the antenna site.
haha. no. we had launched from a small local site here in S.W. Oregon. the tower was encountered wile going XC. no tinfoil required, but glad I didn't have any candy bars in my pockets at the time. ;)
 
Sep 25, 2008
6,237
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The DOD and the FAA take these kinds of questions very seriously. They object to granting the license to this one company for this part of the spectrum. When several government agencies object to what one agency is doing, we need to listen.
Not suggesting we (the FCC) don’t listen. Simply that we don’t hear anything in their objections based on fact, evidence or data. As cited here previously by their own statements, they object based on nothing except conjecture. Why take conjecture seriously?