Electrical issues

[Ben Anderson]

Recently purchased a 1983 Catalina 27 but having some electrical issues. The issue I'm trying to address right now is that the ignition doesn't seem to be working. My guess is I need to replace the ignition switch and wiring but I thought I'd look here for suggestions.

With the key in the "on" position, the ignition light no longer lights up. Start does nothing. My wife and I were out last week and the engine died and would not start again. It would crank but very slowly, as if the batteries were low. After getting back in (tow) I charged the batteries and tested, both are fine. In the process of doing that, something seems to have gone wrong with the ignition as described. The fuel gauge moves when I turn the ignition to "on" but nothing else seems to be working. I don't hear a click or anything when I move the key to "start". I was able to get the ignition light to come on briefly (somehow) but then when I turned the key, it went off and didn't come back on.

I'm also curious as to why the Atomic 4 Diesel engine would cut out after it was running. I could see not being able to start but unsure if there are multiple issues or just one that has multiple symptoms.

Pictures of the panel and wiring. http://imgur.com/a/xnAml

 

[jssailem]

First step. Check the connections. Corrosion. Wire loose in terminal. Loose screw. Wire burnt along route shorting out intermently. Ground wire some or all of the above issues. Check if there were any wires that the Previous Owner but connected. Some of these can pull loose and may need to be replaced

If you find damaged wires then replacement is due. Check out Maine Sails site. Great info on wiring, connectors and how to improve your system.

 

[JohnVTX]

Upper right, what is lt. brown that cut off wire?

 

[weinie]

Atomic 4 diesel?

 

[Justin_NSA]

I'm with John. Your connections look heavily oxidized. None of those terminals look like marine grade. Then there's that wire hanging out there uncapped on the end.

 

[Ron20324]

I'm with Weinie. Diesel? Maybe that's why the engine won't run

 

[kito]

Atomic 4 diesel?

Hopefully he is incorrect on the Atomic 4. His panel does show a glow plug light.
EDIT: After a little research, apparently Universal did call their early diesels....Atomic.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Most likely a Universal

 

[LeslieTroyer]

starting running and dying is usually an air in the fuel lines issue. No light or start may be connections - but check the fuse. It looks like your boat is still running the alternator output up to the panel and back before hitting the batteries - my guess is it also doesn't have the glow plug relay fix, If you still have the "trailer" plugs at both the engine and panel - you need to remove them also -- there is a really good engine section on the Catalina International 34 site - These fixes will help keep poor wiring from burning your boat up.

I have the Universal M25 on my boat, and have had to make several of these fixes. I still have the alternator bracket fix to go. BTW - Are you sure you have a 4 cylinder ?? My guess would have been a two cylinder (M18??) -- my M25 on the 36' (slightly under powered) is a 3 cylinder.

This is Main's -- explanation on the issues.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_alternator_bracket
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_wiring_harness_upgrade
and
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine





Les

 

[Ben Anderson]

I will replace all the wires this weekend, the stray wire is just that, a stray wire, just hadn't removed it yet. Leslie, thanks for the link with the fixes. I'll check them out.

As far as air in the fuel am not sure if that could be a problem (had checked before and it wasn't) but I'll have to wait to check again. I'll be out there again in a couple days and will get the exact model for most everything.

Thanks for all the quick responses. I spoke to another Catalina owner when visiting Harbor Marine in Everett and he mentioned I should join this forum. Glad to see such an active community.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

I'll be up there in 2hrs -- I have the alternator bracket kit from Catalina Direct if you want to look at it and discuss strategy on installing it. It does apply to M18's of our era. I'm @B59. Before rewiring - check out the links as it will change your wire sizing - (basically 16 AWG is good) Leaving out the amp gauge or direct glow plug power - which are the two big power draws in that bundle. -- Also marine grade wire is different than the wire you get from the autoparts store.

 

[Ben Anderson]

I'll be up there in 2hrs -- I have the alternator bracket kit from Catalina Direct if you want to look at it and discuss strategy on installing it. It does apply to M18's of our era. I'm @B59. Before rewiring - check out the links as it will change your wire sizing - (basically 16 AWG is good) Leaving out the amp gauge or direct glow plug power - which are the two big power draws in that bundle. -- Also marine grade wire is different than the wire you get from the autoparts store.

Didn't even notice you were in Everett. Appreciate the offer, I'll try to get out of work early (work in Redmond).

 

[jssailem]

starting running and dying

Leslie.
Your on the right idea. This is a signal of a lack of fuel. Could be air. Could be pump. Could be clog in fuel line. Could be cloged filter. The busty if diesels is simplicity. Fuel air compression. All you need. Take one away and you have the dying engine. Fuel and air are running and dying. Just Dying is usually compression.

Welcome Ben. Glad your pitching in to help. Still an issue send me a pm. I'll be in Everett on the 10th for 4 days.

 

[Ben Anderson]

Checked but didn't see you Les. I went up tonight with a volt meter.
Voltage was 12 with the key off, when I engaged the ignition (on position) the voltage dropped to 2. I also checked the engine model, it's a Universal Atomic 5411, so 2 cylinder,11 HP.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Sorry I missed you - I didn't stick around very long (Didn't see you were coming up till after I got home). I took the main cover home Sunday to sew up some rips and wear spots & wanted to get it back on before the rain.

With that kind of voltage drop I would make sure connections are all cleaned up don't forget the Battery connection. If you have a house battery separate from the starting battery - you could switch to "both" or parallel (if you have the same drop problem it might be a shot starting battery)

here is a page for your engine - a wiring diagram link is on the left side of the page.

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/universal/200157/universal-owners-manual-m-15-specifications.html

 

[Benny17441]

Check the wiring harness going from the control panel to the engine. This harness is commonly routed around sharp fiberglass edges and with hull flexing over the years are prone to chaffing creating electrical shorts or broken circuits. The good part about is that usually the fault can be detected by a visual inspection. Also check for a dead battery, loose ground or fouled connections. A multimeter could help trace continuity in the circuits. The key switch or push button switch are rarely the cause of the problem.

 

[PineyWoods]

Checked but didn't see you Les. I went up tonight with a volt meter.
Voltage was 12 with the key off, when I engaged the ignition (on position) the voltage dropped to 2. I also checked the engine model, it's a Universal Atomic 5411, so 2 cylinder,11 HP.

Ben, if the resting voltage was only12.0 V tested at the battery with no load in the past hour or so, it's very close to being considered totally discharged (11.9 V). Fully charged - 12.7-.8 for a regular flooded battery, and 12.8-.9 for AGM or gel cell. Is you meter digital? Have you checked the electrolyte level?
Pete

 

[Ben Anderson]

It was actually 13, the 12 was a typo. Sorry about that.

 

[Ben Anderson]

Sorry for the delay in following up. The issue appears to be just really corroded/bad wiring. I am lucky this time it seems. The connections at the starter (which aren't easy to get to) are especially bad.

 

[dziedzicmj]

One of the symptoms you talk about in the original post (fuel gauge moved and nothing else) seems to me like a ground wire issue. I have a C270, so the wiring might be totally different, but I had a symptom exactly like that this spring, when I forgot to connect one of the negative (ground) wires to the battery.