I am going to live aboard my boat this summer for three months. It is new, but I have some concerns about the drinking water. The water is added by hose, is kept for some lenth of time in the tanks and I wonder about the quality of it for consumption. I am not "prissy" about it, have drunk some pretty bad stuff over the years in the military - but wonder if anyone uses a charchol filter, or uses bottled water Vs. drinking from the holding tanks. I would think there is some issue with a buildup of bacteria as the clorination level will drop as the water is stored. Also the taste must be effected to some extent. Any thoughts? I am wondering as I am on a maintenace dose of a chemo-therepy agent (for another reasons other than cancer) but it does keep my immune system in a some what impared state. Thanks for any insite. Ed
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Tap filter
Ed: I do not know if you are starting with good quality water or not. We have well water in our harbor. There is only some filter on the well to prevent silt. We have water that has been in the tanks for several weeks at a time and have not had any problems. You may want to consider a filter that hooks on the faucet for drinking. I think that you can get them from PUR and some other sources. If you have Sams Club, Costco etc. they have drinking water that is not very expensive. Your other option is to drink distilled spirits. Like they say in the Virgin Islands, drink Rum instead of water, it's cheaper.
Ed: I do not know if you are starting with good quality water or not. We have well water in our harbor. There is only some filter on the well to prevent silt. We have water that has been in the tanks for several weeks at a time and have not had any problems. You may want to consider a filter that hooks on the faucet for drinking. I think that you can get them from PUR and some other sources. If you have Sams Club, Costco etc. they have drinking water that is not very expensive. Your other option is to drink distilled spirits. Like they say in the Virgin Islands, drink Rum instead of water, it's cheaper.
Consumers Reports
The latest issue of CR reviewed lots of water filter systems for home use. Given your med situation, you might want to check out their specific findings & recommendations.
The latest issue of CR reviewed lots of water filter systems for home use. Given your med situation, you might want to check out their specific findings & recommendations.
holding tanks?
no, ed, I strongly recommend you NOT drink from the holding tanks. You'll find the water in the freshwater tanks to be much more potable. Seriously, as liveaboards who also shower aboard, we run through our freshwater tanks on a weekly basis, which keeps them fresh and drinkable. make sure they're clean when you start out. Peggy's column (Head Mistress) has an article on how to do that, if I remember correctly.
no, ed, I strongly recommend you NOT drink from the holding tanks. You'll find the water in the freshwater tanks to be much more potable. Seriously, as liveaboards who also shower aboard, we run through our freshwater tanks on a weekly basis, which keeps them fresh and drinkable. make sure they're clean when you start out. Peggy's column (Head Mistress) has an article on how to do that, if I remember correctly.
RO is the easiest solution
The easiest solution is to install an reverse osmosis system for $150.00 from Sams or Costco. The unit comes with its own faucet and is very easy to hook up. We use for all drinking water. The rest of the filters from Campingworld etc that remove any bacteria etc are almost as expensive as the RO I am talking about. It comes with a one gallon reserve tank so you always have plenty of safe water.
The easiest solution is to install an reverse osmosis system for $150.00 from Sams or Costco. The unit comes with its own faucet and is very easy to hook up. We use for all drinking water. The rest of the filters from Campingworld etc that remove any bacteria etc are almost as expensive as the RO I am talking about. It comes with a one gallon reserve tank so you always have plenty of safe water.
Thanks, and yes Holding tank.
Thanks for all the input so quickly. I like the RO idea as I am a Chem Eng. I can see the advantage to that solution. I will try Sam's or look at culligan etc. I also think the idea at the tap with a filter sounds promising, and easy. I will research the efficency of the two methods to remove unwanted items. And, Oh yea -I think it is a "Water HOLDING Tank - I also have a Waste HOLDING Tank, and a Fuel HOLDING tank. I think a "water tank" would either be made out of water or a new military weapon that incorporates tracks and some type of boat. Agin thanks for the on point comments.Ed
Thanks for all the input so quickly. I like the RO idea as I am a Chem Eng. I can see the advantage to that solution. I will try Sam's or look at culligan etc. I also think the idea at the tap with a filter sounds promising, and easy. I will research the efficency of the two methods to remove unwanted items. And, Oh yea -I think it is a "Water HOLDING Tank - I also have a Waste HOLDING Tank, and a Fuel HOLDING tank. I think a "water tank" would either be made out of water or a new military weapon that incorporates tracks and some type of boat. Agin thanks for the on point comments.Ed
Hose filters
Have also seen people filter the water at the hose outlet so all water going in the frehwater tank is filtered. Not sure of the effectiveness of this. We buy large jugs of drinking water and use those, I keep one in the freezer.
Have also seen people filter the water at the hose outlet so all water going in the frehwater tank is filtered. Not sure of the effectiveness of this. We buy large jugs of drinking water and use those, I keep one in the freezer.
Filters don't filter out bacteria
They only remove impurities that affect taste and smell. Although an annual recommissioning of the system is adequate to keep the fresh water supply quite safe and even as good tasting and smelling as any that comes out of a faucet ashore, in your situation it might be wiser to rely on bottled water for drinking. However, I find it kind of interesting that people worry about the safety of water in their onboard systems...but never even think about the fact that, when they're away from home for a few days, the same water, from the same source, has been sitting in their water pipes.
They only remove impurities that affect taste and smell. Although an annual recommissioning of the system is adequate to keep the fresh water supply quite safe and even as good tasting and smelling as any that comes out of a faucet ashore, in your situation it might be wiser to rely on bottled water for drinking. However, I find it kind of interesting that people worry about the safety of water in their onboard systems...but never even think about the fact that, when they're away from home for a few days, the same water, from the same source, has been sitting in their water pipes.
Peggy, ther is a difference
The water in your pipe is refreshed when you turn on the tap. The water in the tanks (some of it) remains for a long time. It you use enough of it the dillution factor remideys the potential problems. But tap water is clorinated to keep the clorine content for a few days, weeks at most. If you have "old" water and it develops a problem in the tank, new water is not treated to the level that it will kill the problems in the old water. Probably not much of a problem - but if you get a strain of bacteria growing in the tanks, or any other problem, it will need to be nuked to get rid of it. Probably not much of a problem, but just a clarification of the difference of a holding tank and normal indoor piping. Bill
The water in your pipe is refreshed when you turn on the tap. The water in the tanks (some of it) remains for a long time. It you use enough of it the dillution factor remideys the potential problems. But tap water is clorinated to keep the clorine content for a few days, weeks at most. If you have "old" water and it develops a problem in the tank, new water is not treated to the level that it will kill the problems in the old water. Probably not much of a problem - but if you get a strain of bacteria growing in the tanks, or any other problem, it will need to be nuked to get rid of it. Probably not much of a problem, but just a clarification of the difference of a holding tank and normal indoor piping. Bill
You are trying to spoof us, aren't you?
Peggie: You are just trying to spoof us aren't you? You are stating that there are NO filters that can remove bacteria from the water supply !?
Peggie: You are just trying to spoof us aren't you? You are stating that there are NO filters that can remove bacteria from the water supply !?
Semantics between filter and RO
Filtration is the process of preventing particulate matter to pass through a mesh structure that is porous. A filter is a barrier used to trap large particulate matter to pass through, bacteria can be too small to be trapped by the filter material. Some filter manufactures state that they have developed filters with small enough porous structures to prevent large bacteria from passing through, but these filters will not prevent all bacteria from going through. To ensure against bacteria contamination, a reverse osmosis device should be used. Reverse osmosis uses a semipermeable membrane that allows molecules of water to pass through but prevents the passage of solutes such as salts and large molecules, therefore it will also prevent all bacteria from passing through. Fair Winds. Clyde
Filtration is the process of preventing particulate matter to pass through a mesh structure that is porous. A filter is a barrier used to trap large particulate matter to pass through, bacteria can be too small to be trapped by the filter material. Some filter manufactures state that they have developed filters with small enough porous structures to prevent large bacteria from passing through, but these filters will not prevent all bacteria from going through. To ensure against bacteria contamination, a reverse osmosis device should be used. Reverse osmosis uses a semipermeable membrane that allows molecules of water to pass through but prevents the passage of solutes such as salts and large molecules, therefore it will also prevent all bacteria from passing through. Fair Winds. Clyde
No spoof
Household water filters only make the water smell and taste better...they don't make it any safer.
Household water filters only make the water smell and taste better...they don't make it any safer.
You may be right...
But who do you know that's ever gotten sick from onboard water? The plumbing--that's the plumbing, not the water in the tank--tends to grow a variety of molds, mildew and fungi that thrive in damp dark places and make the water smell and taste funky...but none of it is harmful as long as the water supply from whence the water came isn't contaminated. And an annual recommissioning of the system according to these directions takes care of the funky water problems: Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete. Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded. 1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup Clorox or Purex household bleach ( 5% sodium Hypochlorine solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. 2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines 3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours. 4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat. 5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vehicle motion. 6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water. The best time to recommission a system is in the spring, as part of the total boat recommision...'cuz it also gets rid of the taste an smell of antifreeze.
But who do you know that's ever gotten sick from onboard water? The plumbing--that's the plumbing, not the water in the tank--tends to grow a variety of molds, mildew and fungi that thrive in damp dark places and make the water smell and taste funky...but none of it is harmful as long as the water supply from whence the water came isn't contaminated. And an annual recommissioning of the system according to these directions takes care of the funky water problems: Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete. Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded. 1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup Clorox or Purex household bleach ( 5% sodium Hypochlorine solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. 2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines 3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours. 4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat. 5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vehicle motion. 6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water. The best time to recommission a system is in the spring, as part of the total boat recommision...'cuz it also gets rid of the taste an smell of antifreeze.
Water Treatment 101
Possible contamination in the water: Solids: pipe corrosion, fish, sand, bacteria, viruses & other - use filtration 10-20 microns & disinfection (chlorine/chlorox) Dissolved Solids: salts (seawater for example) - use Reverse Osmosis Other contaminants: organic material chlorine and other chemical compounds – use a charcoal filter (activated carbon) Filters to 5 microns will remove 98% of the bacteria, there are some small enough to pass thru the filter and this is why the water has to be disinfected with chlorine or other disinfectant prior to drinking, during storage (your tanks) and distribution (your pipes). Disinfection - Use 5 ppm of chlorine or about 3 drops or ml of chlorox per gallon of water treated. Charcoal (activated carbon) filters will removed a lot of organic contamination by adsorption (attaching to the media rather than being filtered) YOU DO NOT NEED REVERSE OSMOSIS if the water does not have dissolved solids in it, don’t waste your money no matter what the sales person tells you. If you are not sure that you have dissolved solids in your water take a sample (from your house or tanks in your boat) to a local independent lab. You can safely drink water with up to 1000 ppm of dissolved solids as sodium chloride. Do not let them fool you with color chemistry (the water turned red so you have bad water). If the RO system does not have a high-pressure pump it does not work, RO does not work with tap water pressure. Depending on the dissolved solids concentration you need 400 to 1000 pounds per square in (psi) of pressure for RO to work. Practical application: 1. Re-commission your tanks according to Peggie’s instructions. 2. Purchase two whole house filter housing form Lowe’s ($13 for one filter housing and 10 for the cartridges), install a 20-micron filter in the first filter housing followed by an activated carbon filter in the second filter housing. 3. Filter all the water that you put in your water tanks. 4. Add 3 drops or ml of chorox per gallon of water in your tanks, but be careful too much chorine is bad for you. If you are not sure about how much chorine you have in your water purchase a chlorine kit that is use to measure chlorine in swimming pools. You need to maintain about 5 ppm of chorine. 5. If you smell chorine in your water you probably added too much chlorox, so be careful. 6. Chlorine evaporates and is used up with time. Repeat the chlorination process every time you fill up your tanks or every month if the boat is not used regularly. Keep in mind that if you only used ½ of your tank capacity you need to adjust the chlorination by ½. Matias
Possible contamination in the water: Solids: pipe corrosion, fish, sand, bacteria, viruses & other - use filtration 10-20 microns & disinfection (chlorine/chlorox) Dissolved Solids: salts (seawater for example) - use Reverse Osmosis Other contaminants: organic material chlorine and other chemical compounds – use a charcoal filter (activated carbon) Filters to 5 microns will remove 98% of the bacteria, there are some small enough to pass thru the filter and this is why the water has to be disinfected with chlorine or other disinfectant prior to drinking, during storage (your tanks) and distribution (your pipes). Disinfection - Use 5 ppm of chlorine or about 3 drops or ml of chlorox per gallon of water treated. Charcoal (activated carbon) filters will removed a lot of organic contamination by adsorption (attaching to the media rather than being filtered) YOU DO NOT NEED REVERSE OSMOSIS if the water does not have dissolved solids in it, don’t waste your money no matter what the sales person tells you. If you are not sure that you have dissolved solids in your water take a sample (from your house or tanks in your boat) to a local independent lab. You can safely drink water with up to 1000 ppm of dissolved solids as sodium chloride. Do not let them fool you with color chemistry (the water turned red so you have bad water). If the RO system does not have a high-pressure pump it does not work, RO does not work with tap water pressure. Depending on the dissolved solids concentration you need 400 to 1000 pounds per square in (psi) of pressure for RO to work. Practical application: 1. Re-commission your tanks according to Peggie’s instructions. 2. Purchase two whole house filter housing form Lowe’s ($13 for one filter housing and 10 for the cartridges), install a 20-micron filter in the first filter housing followed by an activated carbon filter in the second filter housing. 3. Filter all the water that you put in your water tanks. 4. Add 3 drops or ml of chorox per gallon of water in your tanks, but be careful too much chorine is bad for you. If you are not sure about how much chorine you have in your water purchase a chlorine kit that is use to measure chlorine in swimming pools. You need to maintain about 5 ppm of chorine. 5. If you smell chorine in your water you probably added too much chlorox, so be careful. 6. Chlorine evaporates and is used up with time. Repeat the chlorination process every time you fill up your tanks or every month if the boat is not used regularly. Keep in mind that if you only used ½ of your tank capacity you need to adjust the chlorination by ½. Matias
chapmans
I quote from the glossary of Chapman's Piloting (page 624) Holding tank = Storage tank for sewage, so that it will not be pumped overboard into the water.
I quote from the glossary of Chapman's Piloting (page 624) Holding tank = Storage tank for sewage, so that it will not be pumped overboard into the water.
NO !!! to tap water
Greetings from the frozen north- I haven't sipped tap water in over twenty years. The risk of contamination and or chlorination overload/underload is too high to justify doing so. What makes you think water treatment plants make things safer? The FACT that they treat it proves it isn't fit for human consumption. Carrying bottled water for drinking only makes sense. Drinking only beer makes more sense. Drinking straight rum is not an option, even if it is cheaper (still need to sail the boat). M
Greetings from the frozen north- I haven't sipped tap water in over twenty years. The risk of contamination and or chlorination overload/underload is too high to justify doing so. What makes you think water treatment plants make things safer? The FACT that they treat it proves it isn't fit for human consumption. Carrying bottled water for drinking only makes sense. Drinking only beer makes more sense. Drinking straight rum is not an option, even if it is cheaper (still need to sail the boat). M
Hey Ed, a question...
I'd be interested in what meds you are taking, as I'm in the same boat. No pun intended. Email me offline if you'd like to chat re above dcdon@hotmail.com Don
I'd be interested in what meds you are taking, as I'm in the same boat. No pun intended. Email me offline if you'd like to chat re above dcdon@hotmail.com Don
Because of your illness
Most of us can use the typical disinfecting process to purify a sailboat’s water system using chorine to make it drinkable since our immune system has not be compromised by illness. If you need ultra safe drinking water and will be hooked up to shore power and city water while you live on your boat, then you might look into getting a UV water purification unit. A UV system will also kill viruses without using chemical disinfectants such as chorine. There are companies offering home and RV units, which you can use on your boat if you are in the marina. When you are away from your slip you can store your purified water in gallons jugs and drink from them and use your fresh water tank for washing only. A company called Aquasmart sells a countertop UV and filter unit they say can be used on boats and RVs. Aquasmart.com A company called Pure Gen sells a home countertop RO unit; you will need to get the booster pump to increase pressure. The unit has a 1.5 gallon tank. If want the cleanest drinkable water, you can get a RO with a UV unit mounted on the system to kill all viruses. Pure Gen as a unit that is for home use, it is mounted under kitchen sink. Puregen.com Most ultra clean water purification units available for home use can be adapted for your boat if you are hooked up to shore power and city water. You can also check RV stores and go online and to see what's available. The cheapest thing to do is just buy bottled water for drinking and use your boat’s fresh water tank for washing only. Fair Winds. Clyde
Most of us can use the typical disinfecting process to purify a sailboat’s water system using chorine to make it drinkable since our immune system has not be compromised by illness. If you need ultra safe drinking water and will be hooked up to shore power and city water while you live on your boat, then you might look into getting a UV water purification unit. A UV system will also kill viruses without using chemical disinfectants such as chorine. There are companies offering home and RV units, which you can use on your boat if you are in the marina. When you are away from your slip you can store your purified water in gallons jugs and drink from them and use your fresh water tank for washing only. A company called Aquasmart sells a countertop UV and filter unit they say can be used on boats and RVs. Aquasmart.com A company called Pure Gen sells a home countertop RO unit; you will need to get the booster pump to increase pressure. The unit has a 1.5 gallon tank. If want the cleanest drinkable water, you can get a RO with a UV unit mounted on the system to kill all viruses. Pure Gen as a unit that is for home use, it is mounted under kitchen sink. Puregen.com Most ultra clean water purification units available for home use can be adapted for your boat if you are hooked up to shore power and city water. You can also check RV stores and go online and to see what's available. The cheapest thing to do is just buy bottled water for drinking and use your boat’s fresh water tank for washing only. Fair Winds. Clyde
Ed, Check out this link...
It is General Ecology and thier filter is called the Seagul. It filters to .5-1 micron and completely removes all bacteria, virus's, solids and organics from the water. They are used by the military and the company is great to deal with. After reading thier test data and applications Im sure you'll be convinced as I was (also an engineer) that thier product is very good. I have had it on board for over two years, I've tested water from it when the rest of the water on board was pretty rank and there was no biological activity what so ever. They work off existing water pressure so no other devices or cleaning/backflushing is required, simply change the filter when the flow rate drops down. The only draw back is that they are pretty expensive but it is some of the best money I've spent. It works! I've staked my health on it. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
It is General Ecology and thier filter is called the Seagul. It filters to .5-1 micron and completely removes all bacteria, virus's, solids and organics from the water. They are used by the military and the company is great to deal with. After reading thier test data and applications Im sure you'll be convinced as I was (also an engineer) that thier product is very good. I have had it on board for over two years, I've tested water from it when the rest of the water on board was pretty rank and there was no biological activity what so ever. They work off existing water pressure so no other devices or cleaning/backflushing is required, simply change the filter when the flow rate drops down. The only draw back is that they are pretty expensive but it is some of the best money I've spent. It works! I've staked my health on it. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Hate to disagree with a fellow engineer, but...
You do not need to buy expensive stainless steel housing to handle up to 100 psi, plastic is just as good and with the money you save you can buy a lifetime of replacement cartriges. You do not need to have a .5 micron filter, do not waste your money, use a 10 or 20 micron whole house filter followed by a charcoal filter (2 micron). Follow the instructions on my previous post. Matias
You do not need to buy expensive stainless steel housing to handle up to 100 psi, plastic is just as good and with the money you save you can buy a lifetime of replacement cartriges. You do not need to have a .5 micron filter, do not waste your money, use a 10 or 20 micron whole house filter followed by a charcoal filter (2 micron). Follow the instructions on my previous post. Matias
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