Companionway step cracked due to weight of keel

May 22, 2020
76
Catalina 22 Iowa
Well, Happy New Year everyone. I've been reading here and there but haven't been posting. This has been a busy year so I haven't sailed as much as I wanted. I didn't even touch the Sirocco 15 this year....

My issue is due to a crack in the Companionway step on my 1977 Catalina 22. I feel that the step has cracked due to the weight of the keel pulling down on the winch. The fiberglass cracked as the wood underneath is rotten (see pics). So, in my unskilled opinion, I need to do a few things:

1. Remove the winch
2. Remove all rotten wood
3. Replace with good wood
4. Fix the fiberglass

I did some searching and didn't find much. Any advice/links are welcome. I know I need to get this done correctly as this is a very critical part of the keel system so I'm starting research for Spring now.

I haven't done this type of work before so no suggestion is insulting!

My main question has to do with how to ensure the new wood properly supports the keel winch. I'm just not sure how it will tie into the boat.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do this?

Thank everyone.
 

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Feb 26, 2004
22,759
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Your third picture shows a pretty beefy piece of metal. What is it?
Pictures from a bit further away would be helpful.
The weight of the keel is primarily supported on the pin at the dinette, not the winch, which only lowers and raises the keel.
I had a 1981 C22, #10496, great boat. Sold it in 1987, so don't remember all the details, but the first thing that came to mind is that the winch wasn't supported by fiberglass and wood only. I could be wrong.
Have you also asked on the C22 Association website or forum? Most Catalinas have their individual associations and 'sites. The C22, IIRC, may have more than one 'site and I know there are many, many C22 skippers who have blogged with their repairs and updates.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
I feel that the step has cracked due to the weight of the keel pulling down on the winch. The fiberglass cracked as the wood underneath is rotten (see pics). So, in my unskilled opinion, I need to do a few things:

1. Remove the winch
2. Remove all rotten wood
3. Replace with good wood
4. Fix the fiberglass
That is likely correct based on those photos, which admittedly don't show all the detail. (Much of which won't be visible until it is dismantled)

That area doesn't carry as much load as the keel pin, especially when the keel is lowered.

When the boat is on the trailer, the keel should be lowered just enough that the keel weight is mainly on the trailer. (Not hanging from the hull as the boat and trailer go bouncing down the road...which would cause excess strain and gradual damage)

I am not sure how wide, thick, and long the wood coring would be in that area. I haven't seen it exposed in person, or in online photos. To determine that you would need to, lower the keel, remove the fibreglass skin, peel it away (Personally, I would do it inside the boat), and see how far the original wood goes.
It is more than likely that there is wood coring all the way across the hull at that point. It would function as a composite beam, supporting the keel winch, the forward section of the cockpit, etc.
Moisture causes the wood to rot like. The rot may go out into the cockpit seating area, and be a much larger than you expect.
Likely not a simple or easy repair.

Hopefully someone here or a C22 Sailing Association member has seen and dealt with a similar problem.

A member @CloudDiver , completely stripped and redid his hull.

Unfortunately I don't think he comes around anymore. Edit: Apparently was here in Oct 2021
His company Kraken SeaMonsterStrong has a page on Facebook.
Not sure if he can or will help with photos of that structure, but if you talk to him.. tell him we said hello and miss him terribly. :)


Your third picture shows a pretty beefy piece of metal. What is it?
Red thing ? Keel Winch
 
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Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Join the C22 Association and purchase the Tech manual. There a numerous articles about this repair as it is a know issue with older boats.

Basically you'll need to remove the rotted wood, re-glass the cracked area, add in some backing material (I believe G-10 is a favorite, or steel) to reinforce the area and then reinstall the wench. Since you'll be so deep into this project it may be time to inspect the cable and winch itself as they too may be due for a replacement. Many years ago they switched to a larger drum diameter to help with cable overwraps and chafing.

from what I hear its not an incredibly challenging repair but it is a bit time consuming. Also remember that you'll have to lower the keel onto the trailer to remove all tension from the wench before removing it.
 
Jul 13, 2015
893
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
yikes-- that has taken some abuse, but its definitely doable: unlike mine with solid substructure but rotten plywood -- you appear to need to beef up / epoxy /glass the surrounding area. Cut out the insert -- replace with whatever you like (I used a solid piece of maple) and for grins I buried the bolt heads so no more water intrusion possibilities:

IMG_1558.JPGIMG_1049.JPGIMG_1078.JPGIMG_1456.JPGIMG_1559.JPGFile_005.jpeg
 
May 22, 2020
76
Catalina 22 Iowa
Thank you all for your responses. I will gather all this information and use it to help me affect this repair.

As one of the replies stated, I think this damage happened from the keel bouncing around under the boat while driving when not supported by the trailer. I bought this boat as a very green sailor and I can assure you I made many mistakes with it.

@pclarksurf you obviously have done the exact repair I need to undertake. I must admit I've been confused. What actually holds up the piece of wood you added that then in turn holds up the keel winch? From the picture it looks like it's simply glued in place with the epoxy and whatnot. I doubt that is the case and I am missing something. So my question is how is that supported?
 
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Jul 13, 2015
893
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
What actually holds up the piece of wood you added that then in turn holds up the keel winch? From the picture it looks like it's simply glued in place with the epoxy and whatnot. I doubt that is the case and I am missing something. So my question is how is that supported?
short answer is you are correct-- the substrate of the step and the surrounding area is part of the mold -- largely comprised of fiberglass. The rotten plywood your pictures indicated under the winch (and the same construction I dealt with) is a small embedded sandwich of two pieces of deck ply (the same thickness and construction of the deck/ and cockpit flooring). In my case it was as simple as removing the embedded ply sandwich and replacing it with the maple short-- epoxied and bonded in place.

I think I would do the same with yours-- but you'll need a little repair and re-support where you have the major crack protruding into the exterior step. I took the liberty of marking up your picture-- I would remove the sandwich as mentioned, clamp the rail to close the gap-- and get out your die grinder and go to work opening up the surround substrate. Once you have it exposed and laid out -- West Epoxy, chop strand, and colloidal silica additive will work up a filler that will be stronger than the original.

The structural goal of the wood insert is to spread the point load of the keel winch and the attached cable. With the surrounding frame re-supported and epoxied-- your new insert, like mine will be good for a lifetime (minus the abuse or water intrusion ;) )

Companionwaystep-crackfrominside1.jpg


File_003.jpeg
 
Jul 13, 2015
893
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
@IASailor sadly I don't have any exact pics of the type of repair -- but I've added some pics of my rudder where I used a similar approach-- notice the crack in the substrate, somewhat akin to your crack in the step. Then I have opened up the gap with the grinder, exposing good solid substrate that I can bond to. Last pic of the colloidal silica and epoxy mixture prior to fairing epoxy and paint.

In your instance the crack is bigger / the loads larger-- I would add some chop strand to the mix. Hope that helps a bit.

IMG_2670.jpg


IMG_2674.jpg


IMG_2688.jpg
 

AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
I say listen to @pclarksurf. He knows things - and does really good work!

Someday I'll find a way to bribe him to drive over to western OR to work on my boat; we do have really good Pinot here... But wine tasting is AFTER boat work. Bad things can happen if you reverse the order :)
 
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Feb 18, 2021
38
Catalina 22 NA
Well, Happy New Year everyone. I've been reading here and there but haven't been posting. This has been a busy year so I haven't sailed as much as I wanted. I didn't even touch the Sirocco 15 this year....

My issue is due to a crack in the Companionway step on my 1977 Catalina 22. I feel that the step has cracked due to the weight of the keel pulling down on the winch. The fiberglass cracked as the wood underneath is rotten (see pics). So, in my unskilled opinion, I need to do a few things:

1. Remove the winch
2. Remove all rotten wood
3. Replace with good wood
4. Fix the fiberglass

I did some searching and didn't find much. Any advice/links are welcome. I know I need to get this done correctly as this is a very critical part of the keel system so I'm starting research for Spring now.

I haven't done this type of work before so no suggestion is insulting!

My main question has to do with how to ensure the new wood properly supports the keel winch. I'm just not sure how it will tie into the boat.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do this?

Thank everyone.
I decided to start sailing and I bought a 1975 Cat 22 in the fall of 2019 and took it out about 6 or so times then put it in my garage to do some work on it. The first thing I did was repair the threshold and winch support. On mine there was only a pc of 1/2" ply glassed to the underside of the step to the companionway. It looked to me like it was very inadequate from the start. Mine was so bad I was afraid to lower the keel on it until I had a chance to properly check it out.
I removed the rotted wood and cleaned up the underside of the step. I picked up a pc of white oak and I made a hefty support as well as a threshold that I ran all the way across the companionway which you can see on the pics attached then glassed it into. I also put fresh glass over the outside surface of the step as well. I probably went above and beyond but I know I will never have an issue with that again. The winch will be lower now since the support is much thicker but I don't think that will be an issue. I also embedded 3 weldments in the top of wood prior to glassing it in to support the winch. Someone put an alum plate on the step and through bolted it in place creating a water issue. I never owned a sailboat and never did any fiberglass work until I made that repair so you can do it if you are somewhat handy.
The boat is still in my garage and it is upside down and has turned into a complete restoration. If you have the ambition and are handy you can do it but be careful, there is no end to it once you start. Once I started looking I found lots of rotted wood and things to fix. LOL Good Luck!
 

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May 22, 2020
76
Catalina 22 Iowa
Now that the season is ready to begin, I'm getting ready to handle this repair. Thank you again to all of your for sharing your experience. I'll document this project so I can give back to the community.

I appreciate all the help!
 
Feb 18, 2021
38
Catalina 22 NA
Now that the season is ready to begin, I'm getting ready to handle this repair. Thank you again to all of your for sharing your experience. I'll document this project so I can give back to the community.

I appreciate all the help!
Hello, not sure how far along you are with this repair but I thought I would let you know what I have discovered in the process of my same repair. My above repair is very sound and will carry much more of a load than the factory 1/2" ply applied onto the bottom of step of my 1975 boat. I have recently done a test fit of my restored keel which is still not complete but I wanted to see if I was on track with all associated clearances regarding keel and associated hardware since I have pretty much modified everything.
One thing that I found that I could have done different was the shape of the replacement blocking that supports the winch. To simplify this explanation I will call that wood support I replaced as a block. It is a hefty pc of white oak with some thickness. When the winch was mounted to the factory pc of 1/2 inch plywood the mounting base of the winch was parallel with the surface of the step which angles down as it goes towards the cockpit. The bottom of my block was not parallel with the step. The easiest way to explain what I did is I took a block of wood and put an angle on the top that matched the slope of the step. I mounted a new winch to the underside of the block which meant that the baseplate of the winch no longer follows the slope of the step. I also used the original location for the new mounting bolts which also created an issue.
Since the new winch was now hanging lets call it plum and no longer sloped to match the step the cable wound up rubbing on the outside of the spool of the winch on the forward side. I had to add a tapered mounting block to mount the winch on in order to eliminate the cable from rubbing on the edge of the spool. Image 5281 shows the block I added but note that in the pic I have not glassed it in yet, but now you see the cable is hanging in a straight line as it leaves the spool of the winch.
My other issue is that the new winch has a larger diameter spool that the cable wraps around than the factory one which also changed the angle of the cable coming from the winch to the ball in the top of the volcano. It offset the cable to the port side about 1 inch which seemed to me to put added pressure on the volcano, as the cable pulled to the port side as it passed through the brass ball. I had to drill new holes in the winch base and moved it towards the starboard side so the cable passed into the ball/volcano in a straight line. I imbedded three of the same weldments into the top of my new winch support block that are used to support the keel pivoting hardware. I did that so the winch bolts would not have to pass through the step in order to prevent water penetration but it prevented me from being able to just redial holes for a new bolt location.
I have since created a solid base for that added tapered mounting block using thickened apply and glassed it in. I am also considering using flanges to mount two alum support posts (one on each side of the winch) to the underside of that step support block that would run down to the hull with rubber pads on the bottom to support the weight that the winch/block bear. Not sure if this is helpful but thought I would share one of the many things that I have encountered in this restore process.
 

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May 22, 2020
76
Catalina 22 Iowa
Hello, not sure how far along you are with this repair but I thought I would let you know what I have discovered in the process of my same repair. ...
Thanks for the advice C Level. I haven't started the repair just yet. I was laid off from my job of 23 years so I've been holding off on unnecessary expenditures. I simply placed a vertical member to hold the weight and a wide block on the hull to distribute the weight. That is holding for now. Heck, last weekend I was out in 30 knot gust and nearly rounded up with the keel down but it held!

I will definitely undertake this repair so thank you for your advice. I will also be replacing the entire winch assembly, just like you did.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Heck, last weekend I was out in 30 knot gust and nearly rounded up with the keel down but it held!
The winch and the companionway step don't support the keel when it is down.
It only takes the load when the keel is retracted. (Which is one reason why the keel should be lowered enough to put the weight on the trailer's keel bunk when you are towing)

The hull and the keel trunk hold the weight of the keel when it it fully down.
TLDR: the companionway step issue shouldn't harm your sailing at all


Hope the sailing weather is good for you until you find a new job. Literally and figuratively.
 
Feb 18, 2021
38
Catalina 22 NA
Thanks for the advice C Level. I haven't started the repair just yet. I was laid off from my job of 23 years so I've been holding off on unnecessary expenditures. I simply placed a vertical member to hold the weight and a wide block on the hull to distribute the weight. That is holding for now. Heck, last weekend I was out in 30 knot gust and nearly rounded up with the keel down but it held!

I will definitely undertake this repair so thank you for your advice. I will also be replacing the entire winch assembly, just like you did.
Sometimes I wish that I would have just went sailing rather than start this restoration. I am retired and I figured this would give me something to do. One thing led to another and now this project has gone on for 2 winters now. Should have gotten into this sailing thing when I was younger. :laugh:
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
One thing led to another and now this project has gone on for 2 winters now. Should have gotten into this sailing thing when I was younger.
Been there.. I am 12 years into a frame off restoration of a vehicle... After planning a quick engine swap ...