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Broken Mast on my San Juan 7.7

Oct 22, 2014
16,146
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Lee have you talked to the offending boat owner? Was the accident observed by witnesses? Is the owner cooperative or belligerent.

Sometimes the straight forward contact can work.
”We all saw your actions destroyed my boat.
The replacement mast will cost $Xxxx.xx.
How do you want to pay that?
I need to get started before the costs start mounting.
I will be loosing a season of boating. You know the grief I’m going to get from the famity at home. Then there is the storage cost in the marina. The repairs the longer it takes to wait.

Do you want to just save all the grief and worry and just write me a check? Save us both a tremendous amount of hassle.
 
Jul 15, 2020
15
San juan 7.7 Edmonton
Lee have you talked to the offending boat owner? Was the accident observed by witnesses? Is the owner cooperative or belligerent.

Sometimes the straight forward contact can work.
”We all saw your actions destroyed my boat.
The replacement mast will cost $Xxxx.xx.
How do you want to pay that?
I need to get started before the costs start mounting.
I will be loosing a season of boating. You know the grief I’m going to get from the famity at home. Then there is the storage cost in the marina. The repairs the longer it takes to wait.

Do you want to just save all the grief and worry and just write me a check? Save us both a tremendous amount of hassle.
the driver was very apologetic at the time of the accident.

the owner, the drivers father, told me, the day after, that he would do everything possible to help me get back on the water.

then the owner received a call from someone at the marina saying that my mast was sticking out too far, then everything changed.

it's a Marina, not a place for full throttle.

now the owner is being distant.
 
Jul 15, 2020
15
San juan 7.7 Edmonton
Yes, it doesn't sound right, I agree. I'm not familiar with Canadian insurance practice, but my wife is a MA licensed insurance agent, and I can tell you that here that's not how it works.
any advice you can pass along would be appreciated.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,825
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
I am guessing at this, but if you do proceed with filing a claim with your insurance, your insurance company will then go after the power boats insurance company to recoup their money and in order to get your deductible back you will have to file a suit in civil court.
 
Jul 15, 2020
15
San juan 7.7 Edmonton
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Likes: Hunter216
May 24, 2004
6,799
CC 30 South Florida
Do you have insurance? Report the accident and make a claim to your insurance company and let them duke out with the other insurer. A repair with a sleeve is like a healed broken bone, the mast may break again at any other place but at the repair.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,959
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
I'm waiting for contact from an appraiser.
Be sure to emphasize the fact that there is are significant forces at play where the break is. There are not a lot of appraisers around these parts that can spell 'sailboat', and taking it to Speedy Muffler to get 'er welded up is probably not a very viable solution.
 
  • Helpful
Likes: jssailem
Apr 5, 2009
1,621
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
@Meriachee
One former mast mfg said due to where the break was that it should be replaced
As a structural engineer, I cannot see why that would be. At the spreaders, the loads no the mast are compression and shear but very little bending. The compression is the same from the spreader to the deck so the spice at that location would not affect compression any more than at any point lower. shear strength is based on cross-section. A sleeve/welded mast will have much greater cross section at the break due to the section of the sleeve If it is sleeve/screw than the sleeve section can be made to match or exceed the mast section. As far as the actual loads from the spreaders, they will now be anchoring into the mast + the sleeve so that connection should exceed the original.
 
Jun 8, 2004
8,893
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Sorry Hayden but you have no absolutely idea what I saw as a dealer and the many who designed and built masts and booms said about the area damaged in the spreader area of the mast. Plus a sleeve that is not designed to fit the inner wall of a damaged mast is not as strong. That too I saw too much. I will say that as a dealer I have said based on what I saw and those who built masts. We can agree to disagree and leave at that The final decision is up to the owner, not us and with that said I will move on.
 
May 17, 2004
3,485
Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE Havre de Grace
As a structural engineer, I cannot see why that would be. At the spreaders, the loads no the mast are compression and shear but very little bending. The compression is the same from the spreader to the deck so the spice at that location would not affect compression any more than at any point lower. shear strength is based on cross-section. A sleeve/welded mast will have much greater cross section at the break due to the section of the sleeve If it is sleeve/screw than the sleeve section can be made to match or exceed the mast section. As far as the actual loads from the spreaders, they will now be anchoring into the mast + the sleeve so that connection should exceed the original.
Wouldn’t there be bending forces from the compression of the spreaders? At rest the compression forces from each spreader will be balanced, so no net bending force, but lots of horizontal compression on the walls. But when sailing to weather and one shroud is loaded more heavily than the other, it seems the loaded spreader will be bending the mast to leeward with a fair bit of force.
 
Jan 1, 2006
6,100
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
It is a fractional rig, which can be bendy. I can't tell from diagram from sailboatdata.com if the spreaders are swept back. Post #5 definitely shows swept back spreaders, but I'm not sure if that's the mast in question or another as an example. I'm not a structural engineer but I had a Mark 25, which is a C&C, with a supped up fractional rig and jumper struts. There was a lot going on structurely at the swept back spreaders. A welded sleeve would be a hard spot. It's probably moot since we're in the insurance world now and my guess is they will total the boat. But they are unlikely to be responsible for a repair, which could come back to bite them.
 

RitSim

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Jan 29, 2018
248
Beneteau 411 Branford
Sleeving a mast was a question in the October 2019 Sail Magazine. Answered by Don Casey a noted expert
 

RitSim

.
Jan 29, 2018
248
Beneteau 411 Branford
This may be an insurance tactic - deny deny deny. Consider filing a complaint with the insurance regulating agency. I also sent you a PM
 
Apr 5, 2009
1,621
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Wouldn’t there be bending forces from the compression of the spreaders? At rest the compression forces from each spreader will be balanced, so no net bending force, but lots of horizontal compression on the walls. But when sailing to weather and one shroud is loaded more heavily than the other, it seems the loaded spreader will be bending the mast to leeward with a fair bit of force.
Simple engineering mechanics have a rule. In order to have bending, you must have deflection. At the spreaders when the wind is up, it is true that the upper shroud on windward side is increased and the leeward side is decreased which puts the windward spreader into greater compression and the leeward spreader is reduced. If the rig is properly tuned, this increase in unbalanced compression in the spreaders is counteracted by an increase in tension in the lower shrouds. The mast should not bend in the transverse direction.
 
Oct 31, 2012
437
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
I’m glad I recommended this forum to Lee when I met him a few days ago at the Marina. The excellent information provided truly demonstrates the depth of knowledge and willingness to share that this forum provides.
Now, for the rest of the story. This is the second mast damage occurrence at the same marina this year. Mine, unfortunately, was the first and both accidents were the result of striking a mast that was down in the horizontal position. In my case, the Marina operator, towing my boat, clipped a mast that was extending beyond the bow of a parked boat. In the second mishap a power boat hit and broke Lees mast while his boat was in the slip.
So, two season ending, expensive and PITA incidents that should have never happened in the first place. If only the mast ends had some ribbon tied on them so they could be more visible, or the marina operator and power boat driver were more attentive, or the large boat was parked in a spot long enough so the front wasn’t on the road, or, or, or.
We often bring up and discuss sailing hazards on the water (which is great) but I just want to encourage us all to be aware of our surroundings even when we think we are safe in the slip or parking lot. Fortunately, no one was injured this time, but things could have been different.