bragging

Jan 1, 2006
6,089
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
One the Off Center Harbor (?) there is an interesting video of building a "Bird's Nest" type hollow spar. It is worth the time to watch. The craftsmen who do this are more artist than anything else. I may have to watch it again in light of this thread.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,941
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
The birds beak construction creates an octagonal hollow center. They are particularly cool because everything aligns automatically which makes clamping easier. They make shaper/router bits that can cut the birds beak in one pass or you can use a table saw at a 45 deg angle and cut the beak in two passes. Most general purpose table saw blades don't cut square in the corners. To help prevent chip out, saw teeth usually leave a tiny corner of wood.

Be sure to buy a dado blade or one specifically for flat cut kerfs.

Then you can get nice tight fits

These are hollow canoe paddle shafts made from cedar, to give you an idea of how strong hollow wood shafts can be.
http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/paddle
I don't know this guy, but his stuff is amazing.


These are all hollow shafts.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,252
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
I’m trying to understand the sailing “value” of a hollow wooden mast has over a solid mast made of the same material. I’m thinking this is more about the “thinking” that lighter is better so do everything you can to save weight.

I do absolutely get the advantage of weight savings in anything that has to move but a mast doesn’t so ?????
It does make a difference in the stiffness of the boat. Serious racers used to strip the cover off halyards to save weight aloft.
If you save 100 lbs on a 50 foot mast centered 25 feet above the waterline, imagine what happens when the boat heals. As soon as the weight of the mast is no longer directly over the boat it contributes to overturning moment which the keel has to counteract. 100 lbs 25 feet up would require 500 lbs of extra keel centered 5 feet below the waterline. So your extra 100 lbs of mast costs you 600 lbs for the entire boat to keep it as stiff.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
It does make a difference in the stiffness of the boat. Serious racers used to strip the cover off halyards to save weight aloft.
If you save 100 lbs on a 50 foot mast centered 25 feet above the waterline, imagine what happens when the boat heals. As soon as the weight of the mast is no longer directly over the boat it contributes to overturning moment which the keel has to counteract. 100 lbs 25 feet up would require 500 lbs of extra keel centered 5 feet below the waterline. So your extra 100 lbs of mast costs you 600 lbs for the entire boat to keep it as stiff.
I’m not challenging your math, just pot stirring ;)

Lets use Jon’s boat as an example of my thinking. From a quick search I did it’s in the neighbourhood of 20,000lbs and in the -photos he posts he always has lots of sail up and with his vast experience knows the optimal heeling angle to go fast. My point being I don’t think it would matter if his mast was solid or hollow as he would instinctively adjust to go just as fast.
 

JayZ

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Dec 4, 2007
60
Hodgdon Bros. Alden Caravelle Seabrook, Texas
I spoke with Niels Helleberg a lot about re-rigging my Alden Caravelle and it has a taller mast not unlike the boat with the C/F mast. He did the drawings and sourced the c/f mast for that boat. Both my Banjo Girl and that boat are fractional rigged. He told me in large part the CF project went fractional to save money and be able to re-use head sails and part of the standing rigging. I chose to go with a fractional rig on Banjo Girl for other reasons. I would have done carbon if not for the cost. I can say that taking my mast up almost 5 feet really helped the light air performance and I love flying that big spinnaker off the mast head! She is a screamer downwind flying the big kite!

...and Jon, if I could get my Caravelle up there I would take you up on the race! ;)
 

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May 25, 2012
3,844
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
"everything is bigger in texas", including rigs :)
beautiful photos jayz. thanks for sharing
 
May 25, 2012
3,844
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
i too love sailing my caravelle with the spinnaker up in strong breeze. my loft is building a new spinnaker this winter for me. we wore the old one out.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
@jon hansen @JayZ

If you are looking for a venue for the upcoming race I would offer that Kingston Ontario would be a good choice. Perhaps @TomY as Alden moderator should cruise up to officiate. ;)

Beer and steak with all the fixings would be supplied by at least one interested spectator!
 
May 25, 2012
3,844
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
jayz, out of curiosity, what sort of prop do you use? i sail with a 'sailing prop'. two bladed, narrow blades, that i lock vertically to reduce drag.
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May 25, 2012
3,844
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
i have never sailed with or even seen another caravelle. i would love to play with others. they are great boats for the great lakes.
malabarX was on lake michigan for over thirty years. there is now a 1930 steal hulled alden in sturge, maybe 45', but not a speedster.
i'll keep an eye out for you, jon :)
 
May 25, 2012
3,844
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
the "caravelle cup" has a nice ring to it. the trophy should be large
 
Oct 22, 2014
16,127
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
I’ll start route planning.
JayZ, what’s your average boat speed (I know fast) but need to know a bit more detail.

Assume there will be stops along the route, how many days between shore leave?

Mast height and draft would be nice to know.

Also any particular quirks that might be relevant, like I hate to sail closer than 20 degrees to the apparent wind, would be helpful.