Ballast Cracked Problem

[Goatman]

Hello, I recently purchased a 1990 26s that we trailer'd from Jersey to Ohio. When we put her into the water we found that we were getting a lot of water under both side seats and into the v-berth. We also noticed that the ballast level dropped and at some point it eventually stopped. There was a crack in the port side storage compartment under the bed which is under the cockpit around 20" long and C-shaped. (About in the middle.)

Since then we've pulled her out and cut through the fiberglass shell and then through another fiberglass covering to reach the ballast which was cracked pretty badly. We're hoping there isn't any more. The previous owner said the last time they sailed her it was fine but it was sitting outside unused for about 3 years. Freezing is the only thing we can think of that would have caused this but we're told there definitely was no water in there after they pulled her out.

Is there a good chance of other cracks that we can't see? Since water may have filled into the first fiberglass cover of the ballast, is that going to be vulnerable to freezing since I don't think there's any way of getting that water out that I can think of?

We paid $7,000 for the boat and the previous owner has said they would send us $1,000 back to help.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mitch

 

[jon hansen]

first of all, everything is fixable. i don't know your boat, but if you think there is water below that crack, then going to the bottom of that compartment and drilling holes will drain it. then reglass the holes.
what ballast do you speak of. i thought those boats were water ballast. fiberglass is easy to repair.
so, what is below the crack in photo?

 

[walt]

I have the same boat and I think you were maybe not told the whole story.. and unfortunately it would seem the seller is not real honest so you probably wont find out..

Ive never seen anything like that and a freezing tank of water might explain things but there is another thing I can think of. On that boat, you can hook a low pressure high volume 12V air pump (like used to blow up an air mattress) to the ballast tank vent, open the valve on the bottom of the boat with the top screw just sealed by gravity and the weight of the valve assembly and blow out the ballast. When the ballast is blown out, the boat sits about 3 inches higher on the water and makes the boat really easy (its already easy.. so maybe we will call this super easy) to load on the trailer. This last winter I grounded my boat "real bad" doing something dumb and used a pump like this to blow the ballast and easily got the boat unstuck myself in about 10 minutes

However... if you forget to open the valve on the bottom of the boat, the air pump will create pressure in the tank. Most of those 12V pumps will only put out a little over 1 PSI which wont damage anything. I "heard" the manufacture would test the tank to 2 PSI.. But if someone used a some sort of pump that could pressure to over 2 PSI and tried pumping the ballast without opening the bottom plug.. who knows. Very high air pressure inside the tank I guess could cause a crack like that. FYI, I used to blow the ballast before loading and one time did forget to open the bottom valve with the 12V air pump on rated for just a hair over 1 PSI. It did put some significant pressure inside the tank but nothing was damaged. If it was air pressure, my guess is that it would take somewhat over 2 PSI to do that.

 

[Goatman]

It is a water ballast so right now it's just air. We'll be opening it up on Monday to look deeper inside to look for more cracks.

We didn't realize there was a fiberglass covering over the ballast. It might be difficult to find all areas where water has gotten down into all along the perimeter. There probably is not good access to drill the holes to allow it out. Short of hanging her upside down, I don't see how we can get it out.

Thanks

 

[Goatman]

Walt, good to know about the 2psi. We were going to pump air into it to see if we could hear any other leaks instead of water since where she's at there is only well water and they are afraid of draining the well.

 

[walt]

I think a water leak test would be preferable.. but see you have a reason for air. Be careful with the air pressure... but I think something like this is going to be safe Amazon.com : AIRHEAD Air Pump, 12v : Waterskiing Towables : Sports & Outdoors

Its rated at .8 PSI so I think is safe (in my opinion - could be wrong) even if you screw up and leave the valve shut but .8 PSI is also enough so that you can use the pump to blow the ballast. Handy if you ever get the boat stuck in a grounding or if you beach camp the boat and the lake water level drops over night.

 

[Jim26m]

If you can get your hands on some chemical smoke or build a smoke generator, it might make the leaks easier to find when using low pressure air.

Once you get the big crack repaired you could rig up a manometer and do a low pressure leak-down test to see if you have smaller leaks.

@walt is spot on, though. Keep it well below 2psi.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough for that to be the only crack.

 

[Tedd]

@walt :

Blowing out the ballast like that is a clever idea. But wouldn't it be safer to close the ballast valve and pump the water out through the vent with a bilge pump?

 

[Jim26m]

@Tedd
Unquestionably. But, if the boat heels to near roundup, there will be around 3ft of head (stacked up water) pressure on portions of the ballast tank. At 2.31 ft/psi, it better be able routinely take over 1 psi.

I would pump it out if I was going to rig a method to empty the bilge. I just fire up the 60hp Etec and make a planing run about 3 minutes with the ballast valve open. Quick, and fun. Plus you get to see the funny looks from virtually everyone who's never seen a sailboat plane while motoring...

 

[Tedd]

@Jim26m :

Don't think that will work with my 8 HP Tohatsu!

 

[Jim26m]

@Jim26m :

Don't think that will work with my 8 HP Tohatsu!

Have you tried Premium gas? The S is a sweet ride!

 

[Tedd]

@Jim26m :

We've really enjoyed it. But it has served its purpose (testing the waters with my wife), so now we're looking for something nicer and roomier but still trailerable. Top choice is a Seaward 26RK, but we're considering the Hunter 260, too.

 

[Jim26m]

Two nice choices!

 

[rgranger]

If you can get your hands on some chemical smoke or build a smoke generator, it might make the leaks easier to find when using low pressure air.

Once you get the big crack repaired you could rig up a manometer and do a low pressure leak-down test to see if you have smaller leaks.

@walt is spot on, though. Keep it well below 2psi.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough for that to be the only crack.

I was thinking dry ice for the same reason..... I think you should cut a 4" access hole and put an inspection port like this in....

The seal that crack with thickened epoxy and a few layers of fiberglass cloth. Then find a way to safely generate smoke (or fog) in the tank and close it up and watch what happens.

If you don't see any smoke then you got it... next I would launch the boat...buy about 5 packs of food coloring and place it in the tank and see if you get any leaks that are colored. If so... you still have a leak to run down... but I suspect you will get lucky fixing that crack. If you are worried that water between the liner and the tank will freeze and do damage, squirt some of the environmentally safe anti-freeze in there before winter. It will all find its way out eventually.

 

[Tedd]

I safe way to test a tank for leaks is to use a balloon to control the pressure. It doesn't help you find the leak but it does tell you if there is a leak, and how big it is, while preventing you from over pressurizing the tank.

 

[srimes]

Wow that sucks. Fortunately it's all fixable. Unfortunately it's hard to really inspect. What you found is probably the only busted part. Fix that and then test.

 

[George_NJ]

Goatman,
What a nasty surprise... Here's a good video of a guy who fixed his cracked ballast tank to give you an idea of what is involved. FYI, my 90 26S had been out of the water for six years when I bought it, it had over a foot of water standing inside of it when I bought it, it had sat through those years in CT winters too and there are no leaks or cracks from my ballast tank, I've checked when in the water. I could only think of two things to cause this, leaving the tank full of water in the cold and it freezing or some weird age failure.

 

[Goatman]

Thanks for all the replies. I had watched Ryan's video on Youtube.
This is what we found so far.
When cutting out the white outer shell we had found a crack in the fiberglass underneath. At first we thought this was the ballast but after more cutting out we found that there is a fiberglass covering over the ballast. So, this was cut out to expose the ballast. I think Ryan in the Youtube video just patched up the outer covering which should work but I was concerned with water flowing between the cover and the ballast and that not emptying out and freezing.

After speaking to the guy doing our work, he said he had drained the ballast. When he was working on the area being repaired, someone else attempted to get in the boat causing the bow to raise into the air and causing a flood of water to run out the area being worked on. After speaking to a longtime Mac 26S owner at our lake, he said he thinks that the water continues to drain as you are driving down the road. We're thinking that the people in Jersey pulled the boat out of the water and didn't drive it anywhere. It was kept there at the marina. Possibly a lot of snow and water in the cockpit could have caused the bow to raise and the water to run to the back of the boat where it froze. This would make sense.

Good news is we've done a ballast water test and it is holding water. So now I just have to wait for the two outer layers to be seamed back in place.

 

[finding41]

The leaving it in the yard with the nose up and freezing is probably the cause. I bet they forgot to open the drain and saw it leaking a bit and thought they had opened it. (I've done that... For about a block towing. Scrambled up and in to open the drain and kept driving.)
My boat sat for 8 years on it's trailer half in a lake in Haliburton Ontario Canada. It had a crack in the lazerette about 6" long from freezing. The inner liner under the cockpit is cracked on both sides too. (still is.) It has blisters on the inside of the cabin up into the V berth! The trailer has rust blisters on the back half from being submerged. (Bearing Buddies work!)
My patch in the lazerette turned out to be about 12" by 3".
My other boat had a leaky patch into the water ballast under the V berth. Turns out that someone thought it would be a great thing to put cement in the front of the tank. (Search the forum for Ferrow Cement Water Ballast.) (Racing cheat to lengthen the waterline) I figure by the size of lump that there are 2 bags of pre-mix in there. Doing the math ((The cheaters didn't!)) and accounting for the weight difference of concrete VS the weight of the water... All that work ads up to about 18-20lb extra... A bigger anchor on the bow would have been the easier solution.
Hope your on the water soon!
Marty

 

[srimes]

Turns out that someone thought it would be a great thing to put cement in the front of the tank. (Search the forum for Ferrow Cement Water Ballast.) (Racing cheat to lengthen the waterline) I figure by the size of lump that there are 2 bags of pre-mix in there. Doing the math ((The cheaters didn't!)) and accounting for the weight difference of concrete VS the weight of the water... All that work ads up to about 18-20lb extra... A bigger anchor on the bow would have been the easier solution.
Hope your on the water soon!
Marty

Say what? Interesting... Anyone know more about this practice? After pondering for a bit I bet the real "cheat" is to blow the water ballast for the downwind leg, and the concrete is to have some fixed ballast to keep the boat upright. Adding 20 lb won't do much, but dropping 1000lb will!