Attaching a spinnaker

[JerryA]

How do most spinnakers attach to the mast on a fractional rig when not attached to the masthead? Hound, mast sheave, halyard restrainer, etc.? I would like to rig a spinnaker halyard on my P23 this winter while I have the boat in my shop. I'd like to have the halyard inside the mast if possible, but most importantly I'd like it to work well like everything else on the boat.

How is a J24 spinnaker halyard rigged? They come down inside the mast, don't they?

Thanks,

JerryA

 

[tommays]

The green on top is the spinnaker which gets it up OUTSIDE and above the standing rigging and the red the jib

do you have internal now ?

 

[cephius (Dave)]

JerryA,

Here's a recent thread on a similar size boat

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=113431

 

[Joe]

Just realized you have a J-24. That is a huge racing class. I'm surprised you haven't googled any J-24 specific sites. There is a ton of info on these boats available.

Check with rig rite for the parts you need:

http://www.rigrite.com/spars/kenyon_spars/kenyon_one_design/k_j24_mast.html

Once you're set up, here's a tuning guide for the serious racer.

http://www.shoresails.com/onedesign/j24guide.htm#layout

BTW I'd stick with traditional rigging set up for J-24 rather than trying to be creative. That "sprit" that dave rigged will probably not work for your application.

 

[COOL]

It should be relatively simple to install a sheave box
or Harken exit block in the mast above the forestay,
and cut an exit slot in the mast a few feet above the deck.
If you are not concerned with any class rules you can install
the exit block for an internal halyard at any height above the
forestay you wish. If it were my boat I would put it as close to
the masthead as possible and run a large spinnaker to match.
If you are not excited about cutting holes in your mast, you can
just lash a block to a fitting at the masthead and run the halyard
externally.

 

[JerryA]

Thanks for the feedback!

Tommays - That's exactly what I was looking for. Several people have told me that I can't run it that way. But, I was pretty sure the J24 used something like that. Is chafe on the halyard a problem with this setup. J24's have this exiting on the starboard side? Is this the preferred location or just how J24's are built?

Dave, Joe & Cool - Thanks for the links, but I'd already been there. I think it would be very easy for me to add an exit block to the mast and have the halyard exit above the main or jib halyard.

JerryA

 

[tommays]

Thats a 1981 mast so a BIT of wear and tear

They USE to use two jib haylards and the red is in the second slot when i refinished the mast and repaired all the sheves i moved it back to the center


The spin was always on TOP and the BOX is complex and has a LOT of welding as well as sheve pins that are drilled through the mast SO its not really and add it on kind of part

 

[tommays]

My Cal 29 is all external and works fine as well as NOT turning the mast in to a down spout every time it rains

 

[Joe]

another obvious piece of advice.... have you talked to customer service at Precision Boat Works? http://www.precisionboatworks.com/ What do they suggest? There are many promo shots of a P23 sailing with spinnaker. Absolutely none have the spin halyard rigged to the masthead. So... my suggestion is don't rig it to the masthead.

If it were my boat, I would attach a swivel block to the mast above the forestay and run the whole thing externally. Two less holes to cut in the mast, no special parts and it also allows the foredeck crew to jump the halyard for a quick hoist. A swivel block on the mast will allow the chute to move about without chafing the halyard.

 

[JerryA]

How about this?

Precision adds a hound above the forestay and the halyard is all outside the mast. However, I think ease of installation probably has something to do with that decision as well, although one can't really argue with the fact that it works too. I've seen some boats rigged with the halyard going up to the masthead coming out the sheave on the front of the masthead and then down a few feet to a halyard restrainer like pictured. The restrainer is constructed differently than the J24 sheave, but seems to offer a similar result. What do you guys think of that solution? I guess I wonder how this is much different than a genoa/jib car. I do have a sheave at the front of my mast head.

You guys have all come up with some great thoughts and questions.

JerryA

 

[Ron20324]

Jerry, remember that the spinnaker halyard can come off the mast at 90 degrees, so the pictured item wouldn't work too well. Might work if you went strickly off the wind. On my B235 I put a boom bail 6 inches down from the masthead fitting, thru-bolted. I then shackled a block to the bail. This used an external halyard, but worked great for the 10 years I owned the boat.

 

[Joe]

I think that sheave/fitting would be more that adequate. It's design would allow the halyard to swing side to side without chafe and it has a very strong mast attachment bracket. I think you should run it externally, as suggested by the manufacturer. There's no benefit to running it internally.

BTW, the halyard will not veer out 90 degrees to the side. Even if the pole is pulled back to the spreaders the halyard will bisect that angle... so let's say 45 degrees each way would be the maximum swing.

 

[Prime Time]

Keep it simple

I would keep it simple. Go with an external set up. I would either rivet or tap and screw a stainless strap to the mast above the forestay and attach a suitable block. Place an additional cleat on the mast for the halyard.

 

[Ron20324]

BTW, the halyard will not veer out 90 degrees to the side. Even if the pole is pulled back to the spreaders the halyard will bisect that angle... so let's say 45 degrees each way would be the maximum swing.

If using a pole, yes, but if not (a-sym), the halyard can swing out enough to chafe on that particular bracket. There are better purpose-made attachments, so I'm really refering to the one in the picture. Like an anchor bracket and rode chafe, it's just better foresight to stop potential chafe problems with some advance planning.

 

[JerryA]

Here's a different twist (or swivel) to my idea. I could use this instead of the Harken restrainer.

JerryA

 

[Jumpstart]

Jerry, I'd be very leery of either the restrainer or the Ronstan "head knocker" block which is designed for controlling lines exiting the underside of the boom. The fact that Precision adds a stay is a pretty good clue that there needs to be some more support in this area to handle the loads of a spinnaker. Best bet would be see if Precision has a retrofit kit. Going with a non engineered solution might be a problem if you break your rig especially if your insurance company looks closely. My previous boat had a substantial tangs that were bolted to the casting at the top of the mast. It used external halyards for the spinnaker which were led through a swivel blocks attached to the tangs. That was a masthead rig where the top of the mast is supported.

 

[JerryA]

I think I'm going to try my idea since it seems sound and based on the specs & intended use it should be almost twice as strong as the recommended block/hound. My spinnaker halyard will come out through the extra sheave at the front of the masthead. This is 1 1/16" delrin with 1/4" pin. The halyard will lead down the front of the mast to a Ronstan swiveling lead block 6" above the forestay and then attach to the spinnaker head.

Lead in this manner the block will only see 76-100% of the halyard load at the 45-60 degrees in which it will operate. If I instead used a block hanging from a hound with the halyard going directly down the mast externally, the block and hound would see 173-193% of the halyard load at 120-150% degrees in which it would operate. Since the Ronstan block has a higher SWL (660lbs vs 485lbs) than a standard block, it should be fine. That's the data behind the idea, and time will tell if it works fine (or not).

The other end of the halyard will exit the side of the mast at approx. 8' off the deck and lead to a camcleat. I'm thinking of continuing the halyard to a turning block and back to the cockpit to a cleat.

Thanks for everyone's input, it was very thought provoking and helped me better understand the issues of spinnaker halyards.

JerryA

 

[JerryA]

It works!

I got a chance to fly my spinnaker for the first time this past weekend. It works, now I just need to learn how to trim it. I used the light Lewmar snap shackles pictured. In very light wind without the spinnaker I was making 3 knots, with the spinnaker I could get 5-6 knots. I'm happy. Thanks everyone for your help. The last picture is my son Steve as we headed to PIB for Pirate Days on Saturday.

JerryA

 

[RichBone]

I got a chance to fly my spinnaker for the first time this past weekend. It works, now I just need to learn how to trim it. I used the light Lewmar snap shackles pictured. In very light wind without the spinnaker I was making 3 knots, with the spinnaker I could get 5-6 knots. I'm happy. Thanks everyone for your help. The last picture is my son Steve as we headed to PIB for Pirate Days on Saturday.

JerryA

Where did you get those shackles? I can't find them anywhere.

Rich

 

[JerryA]

RBone,
Got them off ebay new in their package, $29 or something like that.
JerryA