I need to replace the traveler on my O'day 22, so I'm trying to get some opinions on the windward sheeting cars. Are they worth the added expense? I've never spoken to anyone who has used them, so I really have nothing to go on here.
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Doug, that's a sad story
I have wanted one since the day they were invented by Harken. When my old traveler died, Harken had come out with a model for my size boat. (H34) I called them up and said I want one. They said "It won't work on your boat". I have mid boom sheeting and a dodger. They are designed for end of boom sheeting because of the lead required for their sheet. *grr
I have wanted one since the day they were invented by Harken. When my old traveler died, Harken had come out with a model for my size boat. (H34) I called them up and said I want one. They said "It won't work on your boat". I have mid boom sheeting and a dodger. They are designed for end of boom sheeting because of the lead required for their sheet. *grr
Fred, windward sheeting not always end-boom...
As the attached photograph of Rivendel II (Hunter Legend 43) in her Port Vila dry berth shows, a traveler can also be mounted forward of the dodger. The disadvantage is of course that the boom becomes more vulnerable to bending (e.g. if one happens to dip the end into the drink while sailing at a pretty good clip). Also, this arrangement is easier to implement on somewhat larger vessels. To answer Douglas' question whether windward sheeting is worth the trouble and expense, I would have to answer that we couldn't live without it anymore. For me the single biggest advantage is the ability to center the boom without having to crank the sheet bar-tight. This is especially important when sailing in heavy seas, as the spring action of the windward positioned sheet reduces the destructive force of the hull's violent pitching and rolling on the standing and running rigging by allowing the boom to rise and fall a bit. Flying Dutchman
As the attached photograph of Rivendel II (Hunter Legend 43) in her Port Vila dry berth shows, a traveler can also be mounted forward of the dodger. The disadvantage is of course that the boom becomes more vulnerable to bending (e.g. if one happens to dip the end into the drink while sailing at a pretty good clip). Also, this arrangement is easier to implement on somewhat larger vessels. To answer Douglas' question whether windward sheeting is worth the trouble and expense, I would have to answer that we couldn't live without it anymore. For me the single biggest advantage is the ability to center the boom without having to crank the sheet bar-tight. This is especially important when sailing in heavy seas, as the spring action of the windward positioned sheet reduces the destructive force of the hull's violent pitching and rolling on the standing and running rigging by allowing the boom to rise and fall a bit. Flying Dutchman
Attachments
Henk, It looks like there might be a little
confusion about terms here. My boat is set up the same as your's. I wanted the windward sheeting system that is different. The difference being, that the cleated leeward cam is not released. Just pull the windward sheet to weather and the mechanism automatically releases the formerly cleated windward line. It's really cool, but they said I couldn't use it.
confusion about terms here. My boat is set up the same as your's. I wanted the windward sheeting system that is different. The difference being, that the cleated leeward cam is not released. Just pull the windward sheet to weather and the mechanism automatically releases the formerly cleated windward line. It's really cool, but they said I couldn't use it.
Can't say I have ever seen that system
In case anyone has a sketch or photo, I would love to understand better how it works. Flying Dutchman
In case anyone has a sketch or photo, I would love to understand better how it works. Flying Dutchman
Henk, page 116 of the Harken 2002 catalog
I'll be trying to find it on their web site as we speak.
OK, try that link, not much detail. The car is one of those touchy-feely things. Point to 'windward sheeting' and the picture pops up.
I'll be trying to find it on their web site as we speak.
OK, try that link, not much detail. The car is one of those touchy-feely things. Point to 'windward sheeting' and the picture pops up.
Thanks, Fred. Can't say I fully understand yet.
I can imagine how one might perhaps rig a traveler car such that it would allow one to do what the Harken page says it does. However, I don't see why this would cause problems with the position of the traveler relative to boom and dodger that you would not have with a regular traveler set-up. So, I must still be missing something here. Flying Dutchman
I can imagine how one might perhaps rig a traveler car such that it would allow one to do what the Harken page says it does. However, I don't see why this would cause problems with the position of the traveler relative to boom and dodger that you would not have with a regular traveler set-up. So, I must still be missing something here. Flying Dutchman
Windward sheeting travler
I have a harken mid range windward sheeting car setup on my Ericson 25+ and it works great. My setup is not end boom, but the blocks attach about four feet forward of the end of the boom. This is a great system as when you tack, just move to the other side and grab the traveller line and pull. Release and depower in the puffs. Just a very well designed system. Follow harkens guidlines for sizing closely. Ryan
I have a harken mid range windward sheeting car setup on my Ericson 25+ and it works great. My setup is not end boom, but the blocks attach about four feet forward of the end of the boom. This is a great system as when you tack, just move to the other side and grab the traveller line and pull. Release and depower in the puffs. Just a very well designed system. Follow harkens guidlines for sizing closely. Ryan
Thanks Ryan
I've end boom sheeting on my boat so I know it will work. It seems that most of the time I'm trying to depower rather than sheeting to windward. Does it depower without too much trouble?
I've end boom sheeting on my boat so I know it will work. It seems that most of the time I'm trying to depower rather than sheeting to windward. Does it depower without too much trouble?
Travelers are worth it
Travelers make a huge difference, especially in heavy air. Just dump it to leward (away from the wind) and you can avoid reefing and rounding up. Garhouer Marine located somewhere in California makes an excellent traveler and they sell direct. John
Travelers make a huge difference, especially in heavy air. Just dump it to leward (away from the wind) and you can avoid reefing and rounding up. Garhouer Marine located somewhere in California makes an excellent traveler and they sell direct. John
John S., tell me more about your Garhauer
John, It's a coincidence you mention Garhauer. Just last week I browsed their online catalog and saw 4-5 models of travelers, with pics, and prices, but no specs such as SWL and dimensions, or if BBs are used or wheels. I emailed them asking for the specs on two models and just yesterday got a reply that states "Each traveler system is custom made for each boat and you would need to call and speak with Guido at 909-985-9993." I haven't called them yet, but it seemed odd to have a model and price in a catalog, yet that's not the way you sell to the public. But I gather from your post that the product is good. So should I not be worried about the somewhat casual sales approach? I'm in Toronto and their in CA so I don't want to get into a long distance hassle. Kevin
John, It's a coincidence you mention Garhauer. Just last week I browsed their online catalog and saw 4-5 models of travelers, with pics, and prices, but no specs such as SWL and dimensions, or if BBs are used or wheels. I emailed them asking for the specs on two models and just yesterday got a reply that states "Each traveler system is custom made for each boat and you would need to call and speak with Guido at 909-985-9993." I haven't called them yet, but it seemed odd to have a model and price in a catalog, yet that's not the way you sell to the public. But I gather from your post that the product is good. So should I not be worried about the somewhat casual sales approach? I'm in Toronto and their in CA so I don't want to get into a long distance hassle. Kevin
Windward Sheeting
If you want windward sheeting you are going to have to buy it from Harken. They have the patent rights to it. A great system and once you use it you'll NEVER go back!!
If you want windward sheeting you are going to have to buy it from Harken. They have the patent rights to it. A great system and once you use it you'll NEVER go back!!
Henk (and others) there's travellers and then
Windward sheeting cars (which of course have to have a traveller). I don't have one but I have a full blown traveller where I can adjust my mainsheet anyway I want. These Windward Sheeting Cars for travellers seems like a nice gimmick. Like most things you can put on a boat, its just one more thing that might make sailing a bit easier, not that you couldn't acheive the same results by manually releasing the leeward sheet yourself. I would think racers & people short tacking up a harbor would think this would be nice to have, but by no means a necessity for good sail handling. The first link posted doesn't do as good a description as this one below. http://www.harken.com/traveler/windwrds.php
Windward sheeting cars (which of course have to have a traveller). I don't have one but I have a full blown traveller where I can adjust my mainsheet anyway I want. These Windward Sheeting Cars for travellers seems like a nice gimmick. Like most things you can put on a boat, its just one more thing that might make sailing a bit easier, not that you couldn't acheive the same results by manually releasing the leeward sheet yourself. I would think racers & people short tacking up a harbor would think this would be nice to have, but by no means a necessity for good sail handling. The first link posted doesn't do as good a description as this one below. http://www.harken.com/traveler/windwrds.php
Superb service!
These folks are building a solid reputation for outstanding value, quality and service. They really stand behind their products, which is why they want to talk to you. They want you to have the correct product delivered. There are a lot of considerations in selecting a traveler. straight track or curved, if curved what radius, length, stand-offs,yes or no, if so how high, main sheet tackle, etc, etc. You will virtually get a custom traveler for the price of a cheapo. Check out the archives of all the various lists by using Garhauer as your search term, and you will find tons of prais for thier products and service. Their hardware is now standard on Catalinas and i love mine.
These folks are building a solid reputation for outstanding value, quality and service. They really stand behind their products, which is why they want to talk to you. They want you to have the correct product delivered. There are a lot of considerations in selecting a traveler. straight track or curved, if curved what radius, length, stand-offs,yes or no, if so how high, main sheet tackle, etc, etc. You will virtually get a custom traveler for the price of a cheapo. Check out the archives of all the various lists by using Garhauer as your search term, and you will find tons of prais for thier products and service. Their hardware is now standard on Catalinas and i love mine.
Good folks
Kevin: They are great folks. I now have a Garhauer rigid vang, a traveler and a retractable outboard motor mount. Except for the motor mount, everything was custom made. The rigid vang is easy to install and use, very well made with stainless steel. 10 year warranty date is stamped on it. The traveler was just installed and makes moving the traveler in any direction a two finger job. So far, I have used it in a max of 15 knots and it required very little effort. It is sort of casual operation but they do a great job. If they have already made some equipment for a boat similar to yours, you don't need to send them measurements. In my case, I have a Cal 2-27, the owners son has one so they have all the dimensions. You will be blown away with the quality and service. John
Kevin: They are great folks. I now have a Garhauer rigid vang, a traveler and a retractable outboard motor mount. Except for the motor mount, everything was custom made. The rigid vang is easy to install and use, very well made with stainless steel. 10 year warranty date is stamped on it. The traveler was just installed and makes moving the traveler in any direction a two finger job. So far, I have used it in a max of 15 knots and it required very little effort. It is sort of casual operation but they do a great job. If they have already made some equipment for a boat similar to yours, you don't need to send them measurements. In my case, I have a Cal 2-27, the owners son has one so they have all the dimensions. You will be blown away with the quality and service. John
John & Chris, thanks for the feedback!
John, If I can impose one more question. Since your Cal 27 is similar in size to my CS27 I am wondering what mechanical advantage you ended up with on your traveler, i.e. 2:1, 3:1? That two finger job is what I am looking to achieve. Thanks again guys, Kevin
John, If I can impose one more question. Since your Cal 27 is similar in size to my CS27 I am wondering what mechanical advantage you ended up with on your traveler, i.e. 2:1, 3:1? That two finger job is what I am looking to achieve. Thanks again guys, Kevin
An easy 4 to 1
Mine has a 4 to 1 ratio. There is a picture of it on the Garhauer website. The model number is MT-1 and it was around $200. It is very heavy duty, don't even think of a bigger one. I think this would easily handle a 40 footer.
Mine has a 4 to 1 ratio. There is a picture of it on the Garhauer website. The model number is MT-1 and it was around $200. It is very heavy duty, don't even think of a bigger one. I think this would easily handle a 40 footer.
Has anyone heard from Henk? His boat went
through that hurricane last week in the South Pacific.
through that hurricane last week in the South Pacific.
Fred, regarding Henk...
He did not post anything on the Thor's hammer thread. That was a week ago... r.w.landau
He did not post anything on the Thor's hammer thread. That was a week ago... r.w.landau
An easy 4 to 1
John, Thanks for passing on the info. When I call Garhauer I'll use the MT-1 as my starting reference point. What's interesting is that the MT-1 was one of the two models I requested specs for in my email to Garhauer. Its in their catalog, they sell it as you have confirmed so why not provide specs and save a lot of telephone time on their part. Kevin
John, Thanks for passing on the info. When I call Garhauer I'll use the MT-1 as my starting reference point. What's interesting is that the MT-1 was one of the two models I requested specs for in my email to Garhauer. Its in their catalog, they sell it as you have confirmed so why not provide specs and save a lot of telephone time on their part. Kevin
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