'84 Mac 25 - Is She Worth It?

[TheMoose]

Hello Everyone!

Excited to join the community - I've done a good amount of reading through posts before/ after recently purchasing my '84 Mac 25, some good advice on this site.

I bought the boat about 1 week ago for $1900 in the water. I've taken it out a few times and loved the feel of it when sailing, boat really has spirit.

I'm now wondering should I,
A: Just sail the heck out of this thing and sell it in 6 months while trying not to put a dime into it?
B: Get a marine survey, see if the hull is worth saving, and get sanding if it is?

Topside and Cabin



Bottom (photos provided by seller)


The Good

• 2011 Nissan 6hp outboard motor starts up second pull, solid so far
• Cabin is clean and dry, hasn't been gutted or overly modified
• Cushions have been reupholstered relatively recently and are in decent shape
• Keel pivot bolt looks new, the locking bolt has some corrosion at the bolt but the washer looks like OK (needs out of water inspection)
• Main and jib sails are in decent useable condition, but are still the originals
• Pop top works, supports were with the boat
• Generally clean, no mildew smell, no spider webs
• Topside fiberglass staining appears reversible with enough elbow grease
• Topside feels solid, no softs spots found so far

The Bad

• Running rigging needs TLC - Jib sheets need replacing, main block is original and needs replacing, halyards need replacing soon
• Standing rigging is original and has rust and kinks, stays and shrouds should be replaced (have already been looking at BWYachts.com)
• Mast base support (tabernacle?) appears bent/ misshapen and needs to be replaced (I plan to reinforce this area as well per things I've read on here)
• Some cracks in topside fiberglass around a couple stanchions, and random spots, need to make sure no water intrusion and repair asap
• No battery currently, basically planning on rerunning all the electrical wiring and replacing the running lights
• Wood trim on hatchway needs to be replaced as its completely sun worn and split, tiller needs a deep refinish as well

The Ugly

• The fiberglass on the hull. I'm a little worried about the pitting and blistering you can see in the photos, particularly IMG_2891 where you can see big chips
• The keel - I'm hoping all is good as far as the connection point, but if I wanted to keep this boat long term, I need to consider the sandblast/ recoat process
• Bottom paint - Not even sure what's really going on with the bottom here, it will definitely be a workout for me tackle solo though

Questions

1. Any advice on options A or B above?
2. Would I be better off taking the 5K+ this restoration could cost and buying something that needs less work?
3. Can you tell from the photos if the hull can be brought back to glory? (for a reasonable expense of time and money)
4. Does it look like this boat even had bottom paint? Has it all worn off or something? Almost looks like just fiberglass/ gel coat
5. Is it worth getting a marine survey to determine if she is seaworthy? Or is that not the right course of action?
6. Am I crazy for buying this boat? Think $1900 was a good deal?

Basically my plan is to haul her out and pay someone like a surveyor who can tell me if the hull and/ or deck has been damaged from the blistering and cracking fiberglass. Then if the hull appears sound, proceed repairing fiberglass and doing the bottom paint. Once back in the water I'll tackle the rigging and electrical.

To me, this could be the perfect boat for cruising around SF bay with the occasional overnight or weekend trip. The fact that it doesn't have a real head or galley are positives for now, since those would just be more things to pay to fix/ maintain.

Looking forward to hearing whatever you guys have to say - this is a long post I know so even if you just respond to one question, or give an opinion on the bottom, that would be much appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[justsomeguy]

I'm now wondering should I,
A: Just sail the heck out of this thing and sell it in 6 months while trying not to put a dime into it?
B: Get a marine survey, see if the hull is worth saving, and get sanding if it is?

A, with an explanation. The money is a pittance if it's sailable right now.

 

[THECUSCUS]

My 25 was in worse condition when I got it. A year of hard work and ten grand later, I had a awesome $4k boat that I've sailed the heck out of for the past 10+ years with no worries. I even trailered her down to the Florida Keys three times. The hull, keel and rigging are the important stuff for your safety. Make them right and do the other stuff as you can. Just remember that a boat is not an investment, you will not get your money back......but you can't put a price on the enjoyment you get out of being on the water sailing in your own boat.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Another vote for option A.
I purchased Bella Luna for over $30k and still putting money into her. You need to make a personal choice on which boat to spend on. Like @THECUSCUS says, it's not an investment in the boat, but in your enjoyment. Sail now until you find your dream boat.

 

[TheMoose]

A, with an explanation. The money is a pittance if it's sailable right now.

Thanks @justsomeguy , I think I reluctantly have to agree. As much as I do love the spirit of this Mac, I'm not sure it's the right one to put my blood, sweat, and tears into (not to mention $$$). I'm happy right now, got me back on the water and made me love sailing again in 1 week, so no regrets.

My 25 was in worse condition when I got it. A year of hard work and ten grand later, I had a awesome $4k boat that I've sailed the heck out of for the past 10+ years with no worries. I even trailered her down to the Florida Keys three times. The hull, keel and rigging are the important stuff for your safety. Make them right and do the other stuff as you can. Just remember that a boat is not an investment, you will not get your money back......but you can't put a price on the enjoyment you get out of being on the water sailing in your own boat.

Thanks for the words of encouragement @THECUSCUS > your solo sailing video and others on YT were part of what encouraged me to pull the trigger and get back on the water, so thanks for those. Haha, definitely agree no boat is an investment (although someone offered $4500 for it already!). Really has been a blast just being back on the water, this Mac doesn't owe me a thing, even if it isn't "the one".

Another vote for option A.
I purchased Bella Luna for over $30k and still putting money into her. You need to make a personal choice on which boat to spend on. Like @THECUSCUS says, it's not an investment in the boat, but in your enjoyment. Sail now until you find your dream boat.

Thanks for your reply @Justin_NSA, I think it sums everything up in a nice way, and I definitely agree. She sails right now and gets met out there, but if I don't truly love this boat I should just enjoy it and keep my eyes open for any treasures that come through

 

[Freedom77]

Freedom is 44 years old and still goin'. Welcome to the Legion of the Damned. Great bunch of contributors with experience. If you have a local Venture/Mac association, look 'em up. Option A...You got a great deal. a little elbow grease and TLC will do wonders. No shortage of marine supply stores in the Bay area. What sails did it come with? New outboard will cost nearly what you paid for the whole boat. Did it come with a trailer? Looks to be in good shape. Negatives are minor. Easy fix. Stress cracks in gel coat are normal. I put a stainless steel plate under the mast step. Check spreaders for wear at the bolt holes. Replace if worn, they can shear off under load. I replaced with stainless steel. If you don't want to replace hatch slides with teak there is a product called Starboard which is a type of white plastic can be worked like wood. Teak is pretty pricey. Suggest deep cycle marine gel battery. Suggest If you can drop the keel to inspect for wear on the pivot hole, do so. I built a flatbed cart to receive keel so it stays vertical. BWY is a good source for parts and advice. Keep us posted with pics. Love San Francisco. If you can sail in the bay you can sail anywhere.

 

[Freedom77]

BTW. Have towed Freedom as far south a Baja, Mexico and as far north a San Juans, British Columbia and lot of points in between including SF and the Delta. Used to sail from San Pedro to Catalina every year and get a mooring for a week every summer. Enjoy...

 

[TheMoose]

Welcome to the Legion of the Damned.

Haha thank you @Freedom77

That's sounds awesome taking it up and down the West Coast, all those spots sound amazing. That's one big reason why I'm leaning away from fixing up this Mac though, I don't plan to trailer it at all. At this point in my life I don't have a big enough truck or a place to store the trailer.

I've def gone boat crazy though because I'm already considering buying another boat
'77 Cal 2-27 I'm looking to buy - what do you think?

 

[chip veres]

I like option B. You got the boat for almost free. If you can find a competent surveyor, or even an experienced fiberglass repairman, his word is gold. Assuming no huge problems found, replace the standing rigging. Scrape/sand/fair/paint the bottom. Have a boat you can keep and be proud of. I think BW Yachts has Starboard replacements for the hatch wood. Harbor Fright has oscillating scrapers to help with the bottom.

Chip
s/v Sand Dollar

 

[rgranger]

Bottom (photos provided by seller)
View attachment 187722View attachment 187723
The Bad

• Running rigging needs TLC - Jib sheets need replacing, main block is original and needs replacing, halyards need replacing soon
• Standing rigging is original and has rust and kinks, stays and shrouds should be replaced (have already been looking at BWYachts.com)
• Mast base support (tabernacle?) appears bent/ misshapen and needs to be replaced (I plan to reinforce this area as well per things I've read on here)
• Some cracks in topside fiberglass around a couple stanchions, and random spots, need to make sure no water intrusion and repair asap
• No battery currently, basically planning on rerunning all the electrical wiring and replacing the running lights
• Wood trim on hatchway needs to be replaced as its completely sun worn and split, tiller needs a deep refinish as well

The Ugly

• The fiberglass on the hull. I'm a little worried about the pitting and blistering you can see in the photos, particularly IMG_2891 where you can see big chips
• The keel - I'm hoping all is good as far as the connection point, but if I wanted to keep this boat long term, I need to consider the sandblast/ recoat process
• Bottom paint - Not even sure what's really going on with the bottom here, it will definitely be a workout for me tackle solo though

You have gotten a lot of good advice already. As someone who has restored seven old boats... I feel I have learned a lot of money saving stratagies.... so I'll add a few ideas to your pile and you can do what you want with them...

The Bad

• Running rigging needs TLC - Jib sheets need replacing, main block is original and needs replacing, halyards need replacing soon

Buy some higher quality line from a place like northern tool or tractor supply. Anything with the word "marine" in the label is marked up 50%... if you add the word "sailing" another 50%.

• Standing rigging is original and has rust and kinks, stays and shrouds should be replaced (have already been looking at BWYachts.com)

Again I'd source at Tractor Supply or Norther Tool or McMaster Carr. You can buy high quality SS cable and swagging tools and in the end you can even go up one guage and still save a bunch of money.

• Mast base support (tabernacle?) appears bent/ misshapen and needs to be replaced (I plan to reinforce this area as well per things I've read on here)

Those are not expensive to replace ... https://shop.bwyachts.com/

• Some cracks in topside fiberglass around a couple stanchions, and random spots, need to make sure no water intrusion and repair asap

Those might just be spider cracks in the gel coat. (If you are lucky)

• No battery currently, basically planning on rerunning all the electrical wiring and replacing the running lights

I've done this a few times but... here is something to consider. How often do you actually sail after dark? If it is not that often you could get away with a temp like this..

And fix LED Puck lights in the cabin and forgo any wiring at all.

• Wood trim on hatchway needs to be replaced as its completely sun worn and split, tiller needs a deep refinish as well

Consider using Trex. Looks almost as good and will never need maintenance again in your lifetime.

Ugly

• The fiberglass on the hull. I'm a little worried about the pitting and blistering you can see in the photos, particularly IMG_2891 where you can see big chips

Fiberglass is forgiving stuff. Spend a weekend with an orbital sander and some 80 grit and knock off anything that might be a barnicle or loose bottom paint. If there is appreciable bottom paint I have another trick for getting that off easily but I'll save that for another post. Then pressure wash it to get the dust off and let it dry. Then use some fairing compount and a plastic putty knife to fill in the chinks. Two coats of epoxy barrier coat... I buy mine from a local paint store and it is marketed for swimming pools (does not say marine on can so 50% cheaper). Cover it up with come eblative bottom paint and you are done with the hull.

• The keel - I'm hoping all is good as far as the connection point, but if I wanted to keep this boat long term, I need to consider the sandblast/ recoat process

This can be a real big job (I've done it three times) and in my mind is the the real deal killer here. If the keel is too far gone... I'd sell it and look for another boat... but if it just needs some fairing painting etc.... it is worth keeping. Those pictures do not look too bad. Put a wire brush on a grinder and knock off the rust... then some phoshorous rust treatment followed by a few coats of barrier paint (use the left over swimming pool paint) followed by a hard enamel (I like Rustoleum) and some abalative bottom paint. You should get at least 10 more years out of that boat.

• Bottom paint - Not even sure what's really going on with the bottom here, it will definitely be a workout for me tackle solo though

See above


Hope this is helpful. If you do still have bottom paint on that boat (pics don't look like you do) I have a recipe for a homemade peel away concoction.


On the question of a survey. People on this forum definitly fall into two camps on this one. There are those who are a definit always yes and then there are those that feel that a survey on a boat less than $5000 is not really worth it. You already know it has problems so just be prepared to fix them. I fall into the second camp but ...if you are thinking of the survey as an inspection rather than a survey .... I can get behind that. On the other hand... if you replace the rigging, do your own inspection of the chain plates, keel pin, and hull... you have all of the safety issues covered. The rest is cosmetic.

 

[TheMoose]

I like option B. You got the boat for almost free. If you can find a competent surveyor, or even an experienced fiberglass repairman, his word is gold. Assuming no huge problems found, replace the standing rigging. Scrape/sand/fair/paint the bottom. Have a boat you can keep and be proud of. I think BW Yachts has Starboard replacements for the hatch wood. Harbor Fright has oscillating scrapers to help with the bottom.

Chip
s/v Sand Dollar

Thanks @chip veres, totally agree, for that price there's nothing to lose, good call on checking harbor freight for oscillating scrapers.

You have gotten a lot of good advice already. As someone who has restored seven old boats... I feel I have learned a lot of money saving stratagies.... so I'll add a few ideas to your pile and you can do what you want with them...

The Bad

• Running rigging needs TLC - Jib sheets need replacing, main block is original and needs replacing, halyards need replacing soon

Buy some higher quality line from a place like northern tool or tractor supply. Anything with the word "marine" in the label is marked up 50%... if you add the word "sailing" another 50%.

• Standing rigging is original and has rust and kinks, stays and shrouds should be replaced (have already been looking at BWYachts.com)

Again I'd source at Tractor Supply or Norther Tool or McMaster Carr. You can buy high quality SS cable and swagging tools and in the end you can even go up one guage and still save a bunch of money.

• Mast base support (tabernacle?) appears bent/ misshapen and needs to be replaced (I plan to reinforce this area as well per things I've read on here)

Those are not expensive to replace ... https://shop.bwyachts.com/

• Some cracks in topside fiberglass around a couple stanchions, and random spots, need to make sure no water intrusion and repair asap

Those might just be spider cracks in the gel coat. (If you are lucky)

• No battery currently, basically planning on rerunning all the electrical wiring and replacing the running lights

I've done this a few times but... here is something to consider. How often do you actually sail after dark? If it is not that often you could get away with a temp like this..
View attachment 187860View attachment 187861

And fix LED Puck lights in the cabin and forgo any wiring at all.

• Wood trim on hatchway needs to be replaced as its completely sun worn and split, tiller needs a deep refinish as well

Consider using Trex. Looks almost as good and will never need maintenance again in your lifetime.

Ugly

• The fiberglass on the hull. I'm a little worried about the pitting and blistering you can see in the photos, particularly IMG_2891 where you can see big chips

Fiberglass is forgiving stuff. Spend a weekend with an orbital sander and some 80 grit and knock off anything that might be a barnicle or loose bottom paint. If there is appreciable bottom paint I have another trick for getting that off easily but I'll save that for another post. Then pressure wash it to get the dust off and let it dry. Then use some fairing compount and a plastic putty knife to fill in the chinks. Two coats of epoxy barrier coat... I buy mine from a local paint store and it is marketed for swimming pools (does not say marine on can so 50% cheaper). Cover it up with come eblative bottom paint and you are done with the hull.

• The keel - I'm hoping all is good as far as the connection point, but if I wanted to keep this boat long term, I need to consider the sandblast/ recoat process

This can be a real big job (I've done it three times) and in my mind is the the real deal killer here. If the keel is too far gone... I'd sell it and look for another boat... but if it just needs some fairing painting etc.... it is worth keeping. Those pictures do not look too bad. Put a wire brush on a grinder and knock off the rust... then some phoshorous rust treatment followed by a few coats of barrier paint (use the left over swimming pool paint) followed by a hard enamel (I like Rustoleum) and some abalative bottom paint. You should get at least 10 more years out of that boat.

• Bottom paint - Not even sure what's really going on with the bottom here, it will definitely be a workout for me tackle solo though

See above


Hope this is helpful. If you do still have bottom paint on that boat (pics don't look like you do) I have a recipe for a homemade peel away concoction.


On the question of a survey. People on this forum definitly fall into two camps on this one. There are those who are a definit always yes and then there are those that feel that a survey on a boat less than $5000 is not really worth it. You already know it has problems so just be prepared to fix them. I fall into the second camp but ...if you are thinking of the survey as an inspection rather than a survey .... I can get behind that. On the other hand... if you replace the rigging, do your own inspection of the chain plates, keel pin, and hull... you have all of the safety issues covered. The rest is cosmetic.

Thanks so much @rgranger, some really good suggestions there! Really good call to use mcmaster carr/ tractor supply and just make my own stays/ shrouds. As well for the running rigging. Those suction cup running lights are perfect, I forgot all about those, that would be perfect and cheaper than a battery.

 

[finding41]

I have 3 used car batteries on my Mac 26D. Also a 230W solar panel with MPPT controller on an arch. (I hang out Georgian Bay for a week at a time) The used car batteries allow me to charge phones, laptops, etc. Tones of power to spare. Total battery investment; $60.
One used car battery and a 18W panel was lots for my Siren 17 for cursing a week at a time too. I was only charging a tablet and phone and running a LED anchor light. Never saw below 12.3V.

 

[John Nantz]

What rgranger wrote in post #10 is good information, but a lot depends on the person. Some people are naturally "mechanical" or "fix-it" minded and can tackle all kinds of jobs in a timely manner, others not so much (or at all). If one is okay with work and tackling jobs one has never done before, then I'd say this is a good keeper boat to learn new skills on.

The standing rigging would be my #1 go-to item for safety.
Survey? Depends on one's mechanical inclinations ... you've pretty well scoped things out. If you feel comfortable with your findings, put the money toward the fix-its instead.

As for the Cal 25 ... she's a nice boat. Old school trunk cabin (useful to keep the rain out of the ports) and layout, plus looks good.

More suggestions, pick up a few books for the boat library. I picked these used ones that looked new for much less than publishers prices:
"Boat Works", editors of Sail magazine: Sailboat Maintenance, Repair, and Improvement Advice You Can't Get Anywhere Else. ©2008
"Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook" ©2001 and "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual", mostly geared for larger boats but both with useful information.

Edit: The solar stuff is good ... do it in a manner that it can be taken off when sold and not leave any personalized holes.