Have the basic Jabsco manual heads that came with my 2000 Hunter 410, and the aft one has a bad leak in the piston pump which I have given up on fixing. It is a good thing we have two heads, as we were just out for ten days. I realize everyone seems to hate these heads. My options seems to be: 1) replace piston ($99 from West marine, have to order) 2) replace toilet with same ($105 from West marine- and in stock, should keep the rest for parts) 3) replace piston with electric ($300 or so) 4) throw it all out and start over with better toilet, manula/electric It might be nice to have an electric head. Any experience with the 12v replacement piston? Looks very easy to install. Would like to end up with something better than I started with. I assume the forward head is on borrowed time by now as well. (BTW, Peggy- my wife's maiden name is Margaret Hall, but she goes by Maggie.) S/V Breathless 2000 h410
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I'd go with option #4...new better quality toilets
The Raritan SeaEra (electric macerating)--which is available as a "conversion" in both raw water AND pressurized flush water versions--is your best choice for your primary head...a Raritan PH II manual toilet for your second toilet. Check out both on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com ...and while you're there also check out the Lectra/San--CG certified Type I MSD that treats waste and discharges legally in all waters except those specifically designated "no discharge"...LI Sound is NOT. I was named after my grandmother Margaret who also was Maggie all her life.
The Raritan SeaEra (electric macerating)--which is available as a "conversion" in both raw water AND pressurized flush water versions--is your best choice for your primary head...a Raritan PH II manual toilet for your second toilet. Check out both on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com ...and while you're there also check out the Lectra/San--CG certified Type I MSD that treats waste and discharges legally in all waters except those specifically designated "no discharge"...LI Sound is NOT. I was named after my grandmother Margaret who also was Maggie all her life.
Electric toilets are electric guzzlers
so unless you have alot of 12V power you might want to consider a manual.
so unless you have alot of 12V power you might want to consider a manual.
Love my SeaEra!
We replaced our OEM head (1997 376) with a peasurized SeaEra head and love it. We have alot of organic material in Wickford and the preasurized head uses our freash water, no crud in the head and no smell! The instalation was no big deal and it uses very little electricity. I will never go back. Great to have with guests on board, just push the button and they are all done. Thanks for the recomendation Peggy. Oh yeah we bought it from this web site, great people to work with. Russell S/V AllieKat
We replaced our OEM head (1997 376) with a peasurized SeaEra head and love it. We have alot of organic material in Wickford and the preasurized head uses our freash water, no crud in the head and no smell! The instalation was no big deal and it uses very little electricity. I will never go back. Great to have with guests on board, just push the button and they are all done. Thanks for the recomendation Peggy. Oh yeah we bought it from this web site, great people to work with. Russell S/V AllieKat
Vote for Electric
Macerator in the electric head means no clogs, unless you really stuff it with the wrong stuff. Works for me and isn't that hard on the battery.
Macerator in the electric head means no clogs, unless you really stuff it with the wrong stuff. Works for me and isn't that hard on the battery.
Electric guzzlers???
That may be true of older macerating electric toilets, but no longer. The pressurized water version the SeaEra draws a paltry 10 amps for about 30 seconds max...the raw water version draws only 16 for the same length of time.
That may be true of older macerating electric toilets, but no longer. The pressurized water version the SeaEra draws a paltry 10 amps for about 30 seconds max...the raw water version draws only 16 for the same length of time.
forgot Option 5.
Steve: You have part of this correct. Throw the Jabsco in the deep part of the sound. It will make a much better reef than it ever made a head. You forgot option 5. Get a PHII (actually 2 of them). Install one of them as a manual unit (this one will always work) and the second one can be purchased as an electric version (for the lazy bastards or guests). This way you will have a least one working head (the manual one) regardless of your electrical situation (shorts, lack of power etc. etc). oh, option 6. Two manual PHII (the best option).
Steve: You have part of this correct. Throw the Jabsco in the deep part of the sound. It will make a much better reef than it ever made a head. You forgot option 5. Get a PHII (actually 2 of them). Install one of them as a manual unit (this one will always work) and the second one can be purchased as an electric version (for the lazy bastards or guests). This way you will have a least one working head (the manual one) regardless of your electrical situation (shorts, lack of power etc. etc). oh, option 6. Two manual PHII (the best option).
Just a few specs!!!!!!!!
Raitan Crown Head 41A Raitan Atlantes 40A Jabsco Quiet-Flush 18A Rule 1100gph- 3.3A Rule 2000gph-8.4A
Raitan Crown Head 41A Raitan Atlantes 40A Jabsco Quiet-Flush 18A Rule 1100gph- 3.3A Rule 2000gph-8.4A
Not all electric toilets are created equal!
And obviously, you quit looking when you thought you'd made your case. Nice try, but no cigar.
The Raritan Crown (a dinosaur that's been around for decades) draws 36 amps/flush. The raw water version the of the Crown II does indeed draw 41 amps...30 of that is the raw water intake pump. The pressurized water version of the Crown II draws only 18. Neither the Crown nor the Crown II is an appropriate choice for a sailboat...the Crown is rarely found on anything but a houseboat, the Crown II only on larger powerboats. The raw water version of the Atlantes does draw 40 amps...however that's also with two pumps. The pressurized water version of the Atlantes draws 11 amps. However, since it's a full size all-china toilet designed for mega-yachts that measures 19" front-back, it won't fit in the head on many sailboats under about 50', so how much it draws is also irrelevant. There are several Jabsco "Quiet Flush Models"..like the Atlantes, most of 'em won't fit in the head of most sailboats either, making their power draw irrelevant too. To use any of the above toilets to back a claim that ALL electric toilets are impractical on sailboats is like using a 454 gas engine to back a claim that inboard auxiliary engines are impractical. There are a number of electric toilets that are suitable for use on sailboats...The Jabsco 37000 series raw water versions draw only 16 amps, pressurized water versions draw 10. The Raritan SeaEra raw water version also draws 16 amps...pressurized water version draws 10. However amperage DRAW isn't the issue...it's amp hours consumed that matter. The average flush time for an electric toilet is only about 12 seconds for urine only, about 20 seconds for solids....but for the sake of argument, let's be VERY generous and use a whopping 30 seconds as the average flush time, and a raw water toilet that draws 16 amps: The average person uses the toilet 5x/day...x 2 people...x 30 sec/flush--that's a total of 5 minutes flushing time/day, or .08 hr. Multiply 16 amps x .08 hrs to get the total AH consumed per day: 1.2. And that's using 30 seconds as the average flush time instead of the typical 12-20 seconds. The actual consumption is prob'ly closer to .8 AH/day....even less for pressurized water toilets. Any 30'+ sailboat that can't spare just 1 AH/day for an electric toilet needs bigger batteries.
And obviously, you quit looking when you thought you'd made your case. Nice try, but no cigar.
The Raritan Crown (a dinosaur that's been around for decades) draws 36 amps/flush. The raw water version the of the Crown II does indeed draw 41 amps...30 of that is the raw water intake pump. The pressurized water version of the Crown II draws only 18. Neither the Crown nor the Crown II is an appropriate choice for a sailboat...the Crown is rarely found on anything but a houseboat, the Crown II only on larger powerboats. The raw water version of the Atlantes does draw 40 amps...however that's also with two pumps. The pressurized water version of the Atlantes draws 11 amps. However, since it's a full size all-china toilet designed for mega-yachts that measures 19" front-back, it won't fit in the head on many sailboats under about 50', so how much it draws is also irrelevant. There are several Jabsco "Quiet Flush Models"..like the Atlantes, most of 'em won't fit in the head of most sailboats either, making their power draw irrelevant too. To use any of the above toilets to back a claim that ALL electric toilets are impractical on sailboats is like using a 454 gas engine to back a claim that inboard auxiliary engines are impractical. There are a number of electric toilets that are suitable for use on sailboats...The Jabsco 37000 series raw water versions draw only 16 amps, pressurized water versions draw 10. The Raritan SeaEra raw water version also draws 16 amps...pressurized water version draws 10. However amperage DRAW isn't the issue...it's amp hours consumed that matter. The average flush time for an electric toilet is only about 12 seconds for urine only, about 20 seconds for solids....but for the sake of argument, let's be VERY generous and use a whopping 30 seconds as the average flush time, and a raw water toilet that draws 16 amps: The average person uses the toilet 5x/day...x 2 people...x 30 sec/flush--that's a total of 5 minutes flushing time/day, or .08 hr. Multiply 16 amps x .08 hrs to get the total AH consumed per day: 1.2. And that's using 30 seconds as the average flush time instead of the typical 12-20 seconds. The actual consumption is prob'ly closer to .8 AH/day....even less for pressurized water toilets. Any 30'+ sailboat that can't spare just 1 AH/day for an electric toilet needs bigger batteries.410 = Electric
If you have a 410, why wouldn't you want an electric? Peggy speaks the truth. We love the electric on the 340. Wouldn't do without now. Can't believe that a 410 wouldn't have enough banks of batteries to handle an electric. I've got a 4D plus a 270 for a starter on the 340 and have absolutely no power problems. I would assume that you have much more battery than that. So why do you hesitate?
If you have a 410, why wouldn't you want an electric? Peggy speaks the truth. We love the electric on the 340. Wouldn't do without now. Can't believe that a 410 wouldn't have enough banks of batteries to handle an electric. I've got a 4D plus a 270 for a starter on the 340 and have absolutely no power problems. I would assume that you have much more battery than that. So why do you hesitate?
Uncle
I was so hoping that I would get that elusive cigar. My source was the 2003 WM catalog. My apologies for being such an idiot.
I was so hoping that I would get that elusive cigar. My source was the 2003 WM catalog. My apologies for being such an idiot.
Hey Peggy, a follow up question..
On a single head boat, would u still recommend the SeaEra? From the lit, it does not appear to have a manual backup option. Is this an issue to consider? I can see where it would be if the batteries go dead, but otherwise what concerns to u see (e.g., motor burns out on a long cruise)? I have a 37.5 with a single head, lots of battery power, and am about to make the change. I'd like electric, and really like the SeaEra profile, but the PHEII has the manual option. Also planning to install Lectra/san if that makes any difference. Thanks.
On a single head boat, would u still recommend the SeaEra? From the lit, it does not appear to have a manual backup option. Is this an issue to consider? I can see where it would be if the batteries go dead, but otherwise what concerns to u see (e.g., motor burns out on a long cruise)? I have a 37.5 with a single head, lots of battery power, and am about to make the change. I'd like electric, and really like the SeaEra profile, but the PHEII has the manual option. Also planning to install Lectra/san if that makes any difference. Thanks.
I'd still go with the SeaEra
If you maintain your boat at all, the odds of losing your engine are very small. If you plan to add a Lectra/San too, in the event of a total power loss, it won't matter whether your toilet is manual or electric. Btw, I don't like the PHE II...one of the few things Raritan makes that I don't. The motor doesn't convert the toilet to a macerating electric, it only replaces the pump handle...the pump is still the same manual toilet pump, only now the motor pumps it. However, it does it much faster and with a shorter stroke than pumping manually...which means the pump takes longer to prime, which increases dry friction/wear on seals and o-rings and drastically reduces the time between needed rebuilds. The shorter faster stroke also makes the toilet more prone to clogging than when pumped manually. The ONLY advantages are, you get to push a button, and you could detach the motor revert back to the manual if you had to...however that's not an either/or that you can do any time...it's 15 minute job to uncouple or recouple the motor. So IMO, adding an electric motor to a PH II just turns one of the best manual toilets on the planet into a very poor excuse for an electric toilet...and for a higher price (toilet and motor combined) than the SeaEra. The Wilcox Newport does have battery backup, but the batteries have to be recharged, so there's no guarantee it'll keep working very long in the event of total power failure either. If you're REALLY worried about whether you'll be able to flush an electric toilet in the unlikely event of a total power loss, stick with manual toilets...otherwise, go with the SeaEra.
If you maintain your boat at all, the odds of losing your engine are very small. If you plan to add a Lectra/San too, in the event of a total power loss, it won't matter whether your toilet is manual or electric. Btw, I don't like the PHE II...one of the few things Raritan makes that I don't. The motor doesn't convert the toilet to a macerating electric, it only replaces the pump handle...the pump is still the same manual toilet pump, only now the motor pumps it. However, it does it much faster and with a shorter stroke than pumping manually...which means the pump takes longer to prime, which increases dry friction/wear on seals and o-rings and drastically reduces the time between needed rebuilds. The shorter faster stroke also makes the toilet more prone to clogging than when pumped manually. The ONLY advantages are, you get to push a button, and you could detach the motor revert back to the manual if you had to...however that's not an either/or that you can do any time...it's 15 minute job to uncouple or recouple the motor. So IMO, adding an electric motor to a PH II just turns one of the best manual toilets on the planet into a very poor excuse for an electric toilet...and for a higher price (toilet and motor combined) than the SeaEra. The Wilcox Newport does have battery backup, but the batteries have to be recharged, so there's no guarantee it'll keep working very long in the event of total power failure either. If you're REALLY worried about whether you'll be able to flush an electric toilet in the unlikely event of a total power loss, stick with manual toilets...otherwise, go with the SeaEra.
Not an idiot at all...
It was a VERY good try! And you did bring to light a very important point: there's a wide range of electric toilets, not all of which are good choices for sailboats. It's important to choose one that doesn't consume much power. In fact, one of the most popular choices among owners of smaller power AND sail boats--the Jabsco 29200--is one of the worst power hogs...it draws a whopping 25a/flush. So you would be right to warn anyone who has a boat with limited power resources not to choose that one. So while you don't get the cigar, how 'bout a cigarillo.
It was a VERY good try!
And you did bring to light a very important point: there's a wide range of electric toilets, not all of which are good choices for sailboats. It's important to choose one that doesn't consume much power. In fact, one of the most popular choices among owners of smaller power AND sail boats--the Jabsco 29200--is one of the worst power hogs...it draws a whopping 25a/flush. So you would be right to warn anyone who has a boat with limited power resources not to choose that one. So while you don't get the cigar, how 'bout a cigarillo. Concerns
While there is always a concern with failure of critical items on a cruise, what’s the likely hood of failure? Less likely to have a clog, suspect its more reliable than the OEM manual head most boat are currently using, and as far a batteries failure, if your house batteries are dead you loose refrigeration, water, navigation, autopilot, macerator and electric bilge pump. And if you also loose your starter battery, you have even more problems. Buy god equipment, carry some spares, maintain your head, and go sailing. Russell
While there is always a concern with failure of critical items on a cruise, what’s the likely hood of failure? Less likely to have a clog, suspect its more reliable than the OEM manual head most boat are currently using, and as far a batteries failure, if your house batteries are dead you loose refrigeration, water, navigation, autopilot, macerator and electric bilge pump. And if you also loose your starter battery, you have even more problems. Buy god equipment, carry some spares, maintain your head, and go sailing. Russell
heads up
Thanks for all the responses- sounds like I should get a new head. Further questions: pro/con of new sea era elctric vs. sea era electric conversion kit (not much cheaper, but installation easier?). How about the Wilcox-Crittenden Newport electric? Can I sell the old head on ebay? Donate it to a favorite charity? Start a new reef? Thanks- S/V Breathless 2000 h410
Thanks for all the responses- sounds like I should get a new head. Further questions: pro/con of new sea era elctric vs. sea era electric conversion kit (not much cheaper, but installation easier?). How about the Wilcox-Crittenden Newport electric? Can I sell the old head on ebay? Donate it to a favorite charity? Start a new reef? Thanks- S/V Breathless 2000 h410
Go with conversion and recycle your bowl
The only difference between the complete toilet and the conversion is, there's no bowl, seat and lid in the box...and the shipping is considerably less because china toilet bowls are heavy. The W-C Newport is a nice toilet...but doesn't have the dealer or factory support that Raritan toilets have. Don't sell a leaking toilet on eBay, if you have ANY conscience at all. Re-use the bowl, toss the pump in the garbage.
The only difference between the complete toilet and the conversion is, there's no bowl, seat and lid in the box...and the shipping is considerably less because china toilet bowls are heavy. The W-C Newport is a nice toilet...but doesn't have the dealer or factory support that Raritan toilets have. Don't sell a leaking toilet on eBay, if you have ANY conscience at all. Re-use the bowl, toss the pump in the garbage.
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