110V electrical problems; line 2 cables and internal male connector burning up badly.

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learningasigo

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Jan 27, 2017
9
Hunter Passage 420 San Diego
The Line 2 (aka shore power B) male connector and cables burned up pretty badly so I replaced the male connector with a new one and yet the same thing happened. This was after connecting both the Line 1 and Line 2 shore cables and running each side of the 110V panel independently that Line 2 burned up. Before this, I seemed to be able to run fore and aft AC units using only Line 1 and switching to A/B parallel on the panel.

Some past history for the sleuths...In the past, the windlass magnets basically melted. I had some high heat/fire problems with the inverter charger cables at a point where some past owner had installed inline connectors and finally, I just the other day, I had to replace some of the wires in the forward AC that were essentially melted and fused together. I'm pretty sure those things happened in the past when I had both Line 1 and Line 2 connected.

Now I'm only back to only running on the Line #1 cable with panel switched to A/B parallel in order to run only the forward AC unit and as little as possible demand.

A fellow cruiser has suggested is that the problem might lie in a cut or damaged line #2 neutral wire. Could this be the problem? My boat was recently bottom painted and they primed and painted over all the bronze through hulls. Where does the neutral terminate on a 2000 Passage 420? I've looked at the schematics but I'm no electrical engineer. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 

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Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

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Feb 10, 2004
3,930
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
OK, so I am an eklectronical engangeir (retired), but this issue is marginally above my pay grade.

However looking at your pictures, I think that type of damage has only two typical causes. The most likely is a bad connection at the plug-socket. Or at the wires connecting to the socket, or a shore cable that has gone bad. These bad connections, whatever the cause, will present an impedance which will cause extreme heating at the connections. This would result in the burned/melted socket and plug that you show.

The second cause that I know of is a gross over-current situation. But that should cause a circuit breaker to trip before melting connectors.

Windlass magnets melted? I fail to see any connection to your AC problem.

Melted wiring at the forward A/C? Sounds like an over-current issue where a circuit breaker failed to trip.

Any damage to the three wires on the Line 2 circuit could certainly cause a current fault but unless those wires were recently disturbed (before you replaced the shore socket), I would check other things first.

Painting over the bronze thru-hulls? Mine are; always have been. But my bonding system doesn't connect to them, so I think that paint on the thru-hulls is insignificant.

I assume that the A/B parallel switch is so that when only one shore power cable is connected you are able to power circuits on both the A and B circuits. Can you do that? Can you power on Line 1 and run loads on both A & B? Then can you power Line 2 and run the same loads on A & B?

I'm out of ideas. I think the most likely cause of your inlet connectors is a connection that went bad or a shore cable that failed. As for the forward A/C melted wires- I would check the current draw of that A/C with a clamp-on ammeter to be sure it is within spec and also check the circuit breaker that feeds it.
 
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learningasigo

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Jan 27, 2017
9
Hunter Passage 420 San Diego
Thank you both. As they say 'Resistance is futile' so I've gone ahead and bought 2 smart plug retrofit packages to replace cable and boat ends. Should be here Friday. The workers painting within the aft lazarette might have disturbed something. So I'll double check that when replacing the ends and I'll take a clamp-on ammeter to the ACs. Thanks for the suggestions. Much appreciated.
 
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vhoisington

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Mar 13, 2011
175
Islander Freeport 41 Longmont
My only comment here would be - until you have found the source of the problem. DO NOT plug anything into your shorepower outlet. You show severally overheated wiring which can and will result in a fire if things are left as they are. I would highly recommend that both shorepower cords be unplugged at the boat and shoreside until you've solved this problem.

Be safe,
 
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SEMPERAVANTI41

SEMPERAVANTI41

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Jun 15, 2012
695
BAVARIA C57 Greenport, NY
As the A/C units age, they can pull more amps at startup. My forward unit was doing just that and tripping the breaker. I just installed a "hard start" kit which solved the problem. By installing this simple, inexpensive unit, I bet you will once again be able to use the A/B parallel with the A/C going.
 
Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

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Feb 10, 2004
3,930
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
SEMPERAVANTI41 said:
As the A/C units age, they can pull more amps at startup. My forward unit was doing just that and tripping the breaker. I just installed a "hard start" kit which solved the problem. By installing this simple, inexpensive unit, I bet you will once again be able to use the A/B parallel with the A/C going.
Click to expand
OK, I'll bite. What is a "hard start kit"?
 
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Don Lucas

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Jan 12, 2011
930
Hunter 410 full time cruiser
I bet your 420 is pretty much wired the same as my 410 since they are the same boat just aft/verse center cockpit versions.

The neutral and ground connections for the AC wiring is just behind the main DC panel. That almost surely is not the problem.

The windlass gets power from the start battery, has nothing really to do with anything other than maybe a big power surge went all the way from the AC shorepower to the DC windlass motor. seems far fetcher.

Since the AC's run fine on line 1 with the parallel breaker shut it isn't the wiring to the air conditioners. You should be able to run both air conditions, but nothing else really of load like the hot water heater, microwave, battery charger on hgh charging on just line 1 at the same time. If you do the breaker just behind the boat shore power plug should pop (the boat side breaker seems to normally tripo first on my boat).

Since the problem seems to only happen on the line 2 plug I would say the problem is either in the boat connection or the line 2 power cable itself. And since you didn't say that the line 2 breaker between the boat plug in connection and the main power panel is tripping I would say the problem is the boat socket or wiring from it to that breaker. I would check that wiring first.

What happens if you use the line 1 shore power cable you are not having trouble with plugged into the line 2 socket?
 
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L

learningasigo

.
Jan 27, 2017
9
Hunter Passage 420 San Diego
Don Lucas said:
I bet your 420 is pretty much wired the same as my 410 since they are the same boat just aft/verse center cockpit versions.

The neutral and ground connections for the AC wiring is just behind the main DC panel. That almost surely is not the problem.

The windlass gets power from the start battery, has nothing really to do with anything other than maybe a big power surge went all the way from the AC shorepower to the DC windlass motor. seems far fetcher.

Since the AC's run fine on line 1 with the parallel breaker shut it isn't the wiring to the air conditioners. You should be able to run both air conditions, but nothing else really of load like the hot water heater, microwave, battery charger on hgh charging on just line 1 at the same time. If you do the breaker just behind the boat shore power plug should pop (the boat side breaker seems to normally tripo first on my boat).

Since the problem seems to only happen on the line 2 plug I would say the problem is either in the boat connection or the line 2 power cable itself. And since you didn't say that the line 2 breaker between the boat plug in connection and the main power panel is tripping I would say the problem is the boat socket or wiring from it to that breaker. I would check that wiring first.

What happens if you use the line 1 shore power cable you are not having trouble with plugged into the line 2 socket?
Click to expand
I haven't yet replaced the burned out line 2 socket. I just turned it off at the breaker. disconnected the cable and was waiting for the smart plugs. Can't risk another cable.
 
L

learningasigo

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Jan 27, 2017
9
Hunter Passage 420 San Diego
Got into things today. I've got 2 black ground cables going to a keel bolt and then the keel bolt further foreward has the same gauge cable going to the mast base (for lighting strikes I assume). I took a wire brush to this one and it was so corroded that the terminal end broke off in my hand (now removed, replacing tomorrow). I peeled the plastic cable sheath back and it was completely corroded at both ends as far as I could strip it. Feels like the other 2 are the same at the keel bolt end (both on same keel bolt). Would this contribute this this problem?
 
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jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
learningasigo said:
I haven't yet replaced the burned out line 2 socket. I just turned it off at the breaker. disconnected the cable and was waiting for the smart plugs. Can't risk another cable.
Click to expand
It occurs to me now that the source of the heat that burnt your receptacle might be at the connection to the wire in the back of it. A loose or corroded connection there could do it.

Makes me want to inspect mine, 'though I rarely use shore power.
 
Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

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Feb 10, 2004
3,930
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
SEMPERAVANTI41 said:
Rich, here is the one I would use on a boat, Amazon.com: RECTORSEAL 96506 Ks1 Kickstart Hard Start Kit: Home Improvement. There are others, but this one is only a two wire hookup and it has a potential relay to pull the start capacitor out of the circuit after compressor starting. These capacitors work not by storing energy, but by increasing torque in the start windings thru a phase shift.
Click to expand
Thanks for the link. I understand the circuitry and interaction of the capacitor with the motor. I have replaced several starting capacitors on motors and those replacements have solved the starting problems.

Before I would install a product like this I would test the original starting capacitor to see if it is defective. After all, some designer determined that the motor would function satisfactorily with the original capacitor, so replacement would be the first fix for me. Connecting an external capacitor like this one seems more like a band-aid fix.

I always think long and hard before I change the original design of something. But sometimes a design change is needed.

Glad to hear that this device worked for you. Sometimes the end justifies the means.
 
SEMPERAVANTI41

SEMPERAVANTI41

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Jun 15, 2012
695
BAVARIA C57 Greenport, NY
Rich, everything you say I agree with. However the A/C that I installed the hard start kit on did not have a start capacitor, only a run capacitor. Also as I understand it, some manufactures for larger A/C residential/commercial units offer hard start kits as options on new units.
 
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