Great Loop on a Sailboat - Mast handling ideas?

Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
I am HOT into planning a long yearned-for "bucket list" adventure... I am 65 now, still fit and fully able and competent, but not a lot of years left to say that... better get after it, right?

Route: I will actually be doing an unconventional "Figure 8" route... Florida - Hudson River cut, explore Great Lakes then St Lawrence to Atlantic, back to Hudson River - Chicago, then rivers to gulf to Florida.... starting from Florida (in Feb 2023). Parts of the trip will be solo, parts my wife will join me, about 50/50.

Boat: I've been sifting thru my options for years, very experienced sailor. I'll be buying and preparing "the boat" starting in May or June (2022). I'll buy a well used sailboat with good-bones, in need of general TLC. For my purposes, 27'-30' will be ideal, with a centerboard-keel & diesel engine, and a deck-stepped mast. Lot's of options... Tartan, O'Day, Pearson, Benneteau, Bristol, etc...

The Question(s): This is the first of what I'm sure will be many questions posed on this great forum. I'm keeping the mast with me... I'm a sailor and love wind in my wings. It appears I will need to un-step/load&carry/re-step at least 4 times, as many as 6 times for this Figure 8 route. Obviously I can find boatyards with cranes, but I'm hoping for a clever DIY solution...
  • Maybe anchor fore&aft under a bridge or tree, use block & tackle to raise & lower? Is this even realistic? Seems possible, but not very clever.
  • Any better DIY ideas out there?
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
At a marina I used to stay, I watched my slip neighbor step his mast by rafting his boat to two other sailboats. Then he tied a loop with a retrieving line just under the speaders of his mast and then connected the halyards of the two neighboring sailboats to the loop. Then the two neighoring boats lifted the mast while he guided the foot into place. once it was all up. He used the retrieving line to pull the loop down from the spreaders and unhook the halyards.

I wish I had video recorded it. It was very cool.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I'm a sailor and love wind in my wings. It appears I will need to un-step/load&carry/re-step at least 4 times, as many as 6 times for this Figure 8 route.
Nice plans well thought out.
I understand your route. But where are the 4 to 6 places you'd have to do this with your mast on that route. I would think the only place would be the Erie Canal, unless you miss the opening of the bridges in Chicago. But that's still only twice.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
At least for the Erie Canal sections, the marinas at either end have cranes and the rates are considerably less than southern marinas. Figure on $3 to $5 per foot of mast, on a 30' boat around $200. These guys are experienced and can do the job quickly and safely.

On the Hudson River, Riverview Marina in Catskill is a nice marina with a competent and friendly staff. They stepped my mast last summer. The bill for stepping the mast, 5 or 6 nights of dockage, fuel and a pumpout was about $800 for a 36ft boat with a 54' mast.

If you are bit more adventurous, the Castleton-On-Hudson Yacht Club has a DIY gin pole available for about $50. Don't expect any help from staff.

In Oswego, NY as you enter Lake Ontario, the Oswego Marina has been stepping and unstepping masts for years. I'm not sure what the current rate is. All sailboats wintering in Oswego have their masts unstepped, so there is plenty of experience.

If you are going to do the St Lawrence, bear in mind that it is about 1,000 miles from the entrance to eastern Nova Scotia and it will be cold once you hit the Gulf of St Lawrence. Having heat onboard will make the trip considerably more comfortable. Lake Ontario is also cold, it doesn't warm up until late June. We are looking at the St Lawrence trip for 2023 after we install heat. We'll leave around the middle to end of June and expect to be in NY City in September where we will make a decision to turn left or right at the Hudson, to return to our fixed home or continue on in our floating home.
 
  • Like
Likes: Edwardm191
Aug 13, 2021
12
Hunter 23.5 Atlanta
Consider a Hunter 260 or other large "trailerable" design. They have very well thought out mast raising systems for the occasional take down. The Hunters are also easy to single hand because the 7/8 B&R rig sails well under main alone.

Sounds like a great trip!
 
  • Like
Likes: Edwardm191
Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
I assume you'd be trying to minimize the hardware you have on board so a gin pole using your boom or spinaker pole may be the best idea. Take a look at the designs that Hunter and O'Day made for their boats. I've done the boom technique with my 30' mast. It was surprisingly easy
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
At least in regard to the Shinnicock Canal, which isn't in your route but is part of the ICW, there are cranes at each end so sailboats can get under the bridges. I would guess that is the case in other areas of the ICW that either have bridges that don't open or have height clearances of under 60'. In your search for a good boat for the trip you should be able to easily stay under that 60' air draft especially if you are looking in the 30 LOA area.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
You start with a very ambitious plan but then you make it sound all sketchy when you talk about DIY for mast servicing. Why are you trying to be too clever by half? It doesn't make sense ... just use the services that are amply available along the way. Won't there be enough adventure without creating the potential to ruin your trip with a half-witted experiment when there is no need for it?

It sounds like you are talking about a multi-year commitment so your budget needs to be well-planned, I'm sure. Have you put more thought into the route? I'm not sure where you think 4 to 6 mast lowerings & raisings are necessary. Florida to Hudson River - mast up, Hudson River to Great Lakes - mast down, but what are you thinking? Lake Champlain? Lake Ontario via Oswego or other Erie Canal entrance? I'd assume that you would enter Lake Ontario if you are heading north to the St. Lawrence. Once you are on Lake Ontario then your mast can be up all the way round trip through the St. Lawrence and down the Atlantic Coast until you are back in the Hudson again. Then you take your mast down for the 2nd time to get back into the lakes. But what is your goal through the lakes? Once you are back on Lake Ontario, you have no need to remove the mast until you get to Chicago unless you are thinking about the Trent-Severn to take a shortcut from Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay on Lake Huron (That would be a route I would really look forward to). If you take the canal, that would be mast down for the 3rd time. (Or, you could just leave your mast down from the Hudson River as you transit across Lake Ontario from Oswego to Trent-Severn - that would be a viable option).

You have to take the mast down in Chicago for 3rd or 4th time to take the rivers to Mobile Bay. Once you are in the Gulf you can put your mast up for the final destination. I suppose that you are thinking that you could sail on Kentucky Lake or some other isolated locations (Lake Champlain if that is in your path from the Hudson River) along the way if you could raise your mast but most people pass thru those locations without the mast up.

What are your highlights? What routes do your really want to take? What do you want to avoid? If I were to do a Great Loop, I would think very seriously about avoiding the west end of Lake Ontario, all of Lake Erie and the south end of Lake Huron by taking the Trent-Severn. I'd focus on 1,000 Islands, Georgian Bay, Lake Superior, and northern end of Lake Michigan for the best that the Great Lakes offer.

How much time are you planning? With all that northern travel, you would surely be putting the boat up for the winter at least twice and maybe 3 winters, I'd think. If you get to Chicago in September, you could easily make Mobile Bay with a lot of good weather along the way, but cold nights. Check out Sailing Soulianis for a great representation of the trip from Chicago to Mobile Bay in the fall. Spectacular scenery!
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Your boat - I suspect that a 27' boat would be much too spartan for the trip. You are talking about a huge commitment in living on a boat. I know that my 27' boat would never provide the comfort that I would require and don't even think that your wife will be happy spending more than a weekend on a 27' boat. Minimally, a 30' Catalina could be comfortable enough. In fact if you think you can be comfortable in a small boat, a 30' Catalina could make you ecstatic. I wouldn't be comfortable sailing ocean passages or big lake passages in anything less, I think. You will find more than your share of challenging conditions at just about any location along the way where you will want a robust boat with robust rigging - the kind of security that you are never going to find on a smaller boat with DIY mast raising capability. Lot's of people have this notion that you can go anywhere in a tiny boat with very simple needs. In my opinion, that's no way to treat your 65 year young body. I've done the 27' boat thing with my wife and I can tell you it didn't work for us as soon as our desires were to spend more than one overnight.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,373
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Deck stepped mast, hinged at the deck. Hinge has a pin that you take out and put in to keep everything aligned correctly. Use anchor windlass to lower/raise mast. You set-up a frame with roller on the stern, when you lower the mast, rest it on the roller, then slide mast forward to a forward mounting frame. Set up the rear roller such that you can move the rear support point to one side for when you are traveling with the mast down. I always preferred to have the mast carried to port, but you will have to see how it works best for your boat. As you are traveling want the mast to sick out aft more than forward. For some reason it seems easier to handle more overhang aft rather then forward.

dj
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
There are quite a few that have done the loop on 25'-27' sailboats. Some even smaller. I know one family that's getting ready to go this year on a 27'. Another is 1/4 away from crossing his wake on a 25'. He's had an absolute blast.

I've been following loopers for along time. The majority of folks do so in rather expensive motor vessels. Many purchase their "loop" boat & sell it at the end of their adventure. My take on most folks with smaller sailboats that restep the masts after the last fixed bridge south of Chicago have a different mindset when compared to the average looper. They like to sail. They prefer to anchor out rather than cruise from marina to marina.
Sounds pretty good to me.
I would love to do this trip.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
... rafting his boat to two other sailboats... tied a loop with a retrieving line just under the speaders of his mast and then connected the halyards of the two neighboring sailboats to the loop. Then the two neighoring boats lifted the mast while he guided the foot into place.
Well described! I can see it in my mind! That was truly clever... the "shoulder" boats were good pals to help with that
 
  • Like
Likes: Edwardm191
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
At least for the Erie Canal sections, the marinas at either end have cranes... On the Hudson River, Riverview Marina in Catskill is a nice marina... If you are bit more adventurous, the Castleton-On-Hudson Yacht Club has a DIY gin pole available for about $50. In Oswego, NY as you enter Lake Ontario, the Oswego Marina.

St Lawrence, ... it will be cold once you hit the Gulf of St Lawrence. Having heat onboard will make the trip considerably more comfortable. Lake Ontario is also cold
Outstanding info on mast handling & costs... the DIY Pole sounds like my style! Regarding heat, this is one of my big concerns. I got thru the two coldest winters in 100 years in eastern Oregon living in an unisulated 5th wheel... my Big Buddy heater working with propane literally saved my life... no worries, they don't produce carbon monoxide... I'm going to try a Little Buddy, read about it here: Little Buddy Heater
 
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
Consider a Hunter 260 or other large "trailerable" design
Spot on SandCat... also Catalina 25, MacGregor 26, and other water ballast boats... these are all on my consideration-radar. I don't need "big" space, but these are mighty small to live in for as much as a year. I know myself, whatever I decide on, I'll make it work and I'll be happy with it.
 
  • Like
Likes: LloydB
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
A gin pole using your boom or spinaker pole may be the best idea.
Holy Moly, thanks for the reminder. I've seen this done on boats up to 25'... I'm sure it would work on a 27' boat mast... 30'??? that might be pushing my own wishfulness... but who knows? I'd sure like to try it!
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Outstanding info on mast handling & costs... the DIY Pole sounds like my style! Regarding heat, this is one of my big concerns. I got thru the two coldest winters in 100 years in eastern Oregon living in an unisulated 5th wheel... my Big Buddy heater working with propane literally saved my life... no worries, they don't produce carbon monoxide... I'm going to try a Little Buddy, read about it here: Little Buddy Heater
I would be very hesitant to use a portable unvented propane heater on a boat, for a number of reasons. Chief among them is expense, safety, and condensation.

The initial cost is low, at $100, but the operational expense seems rather high. The manufacturer claims it will run for a little over 5 hours on one tank. There will be many days where you will burn through at least a tank a day. The last ones I bought were $7 each. We have a 1500 watt (5200 but) electric heater, it struggles to keep the temperature in our boat above 60° when the outside temp is in the low 40s or below.

Installed correctly, propane can be used safely on a boat. I have a propane stove. The 1# bottles are not that secure and do leak. The valves do not always reseat when removed from the device or seat properly and the gas leaks. Boats are not stable and even with a tip over safety device, they do represent a hazard if the safety device fails. Propane is heavier than air and will settle in the bilge awaiting a spark. Safely storing the bottles is also a concern.

Condensation will be a big issue with an unvented propane device. Boats are not insulated and an amazing amount of moisture is expelled from human bodies, especially while sleeping. On cold days, the morning ritual includes coffee and wiping down all the surfaces in the boat to remove the moisture. Mold and mildew love the condensation. Adding the condensation from the heater will exacerbate the mold problem.

There are other options that are safer and more effective, including wood burners, diesel, kerosene, and propane which are permanently mounted and vented to the outdoors. They would be a much better choice.
 
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
You start with a very ambitious plan but then you make it sound all sketchy when you talk about DIY for mast servicing.... a half-witted experiment when there is no need for it?... I'm not sure where you think 4 to 6 mast lowerings & raisings are necessary... If I were to do a Great Loop, I would think very seriously about avoiding the west end of Lake Ontario, all of Lake Erie and the south end of Lake Huron by taking the Trent-Severn. I'd focus on 1,000 Islands, Georgian Bay, Lake Superior, and northern end of Lake Michigan for the best that the Great Lakes offer... How much time are you planning?... Check out Sailing Soulianis for a great representation of the trip from Chicago to Mobile Bay in the fall. Spectacular scenery!
Scott, this is really kind of you to take that much time sharing your thoughts. I'm here asking questions and wide open to ideas, thoughts, concerns. Ok, a few responses:
(1) When I do DIY it's done safely and with care
(2) Regarding # of lowerings & raisings, I always hope for the best, but I also plan for the worst... the very best suggestion above was using the boom for a gin pole... brilliant, and I'm sure I could do it myself on a 27' boat with block & tackle, just need calm water and a beach or quay wall... 30' boat? Too heavy for one person (me)
(3) Thanks for your suggestions on where to focus time (and NOT focus time), exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for on this forum
(4) Time? I can take as much or as little as makes me happy... I have an interesting plan, let's see where it takes me
(5) Sailing Soulianis... I watched every single one of thier episodes, many of the repair episodes twice... I like Kirk's fearless approach to repairs, in the face of inexperience... I need to go back and watch the river episodes again, but I remember the magnificent fall colors
 
Jan 2, 2021
34
MacGregor 26D Loreto, BCS
I've done the 27' boat thing with my wife and I can tell you it didn't work for us as soon as our desires were to spend more than one overnight.
That makes me smile... I get it... it's not for most people... and very good advice for someone who in unsure of what they are doing.

We're not conventional people... we're older and money is not the issue... we enjoy roughing it and we've done it for months at a time in far less comfy conditions than a 27' boat with a soft bed (and a heater!).... and we've done it recently. Each to his/her own... physical challenge and facing discomfort has it's own rewards. PS: I've been sailing for45 years in everything you can imagine... you're right... a Catalina 30 would be like the Ritz!