Windlass Woes - Help Requested - AmIScru'd?

Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
Hi All

Ongoing saga with the windlass on my '07 Hunter 38. I'm trying to remove it to replace bearings and seals. It currently works, but is noising, full of dirt and corrosion, and will ultimately fail. I'm on the hard rn so this is an opportune moment.

First, identification. Above decks it looks like an SL Sprint 1000. Below decks its a different story. Instead of a vertical motor I have a horizontal motor with a Lewmar identification plate on it.

What windlass do I have? (see pics)

Next, the problem is I'm trying to remove it. It appears the shaft is retained in the housing by a bearing and a completely corroded circlip. I cannot get this thing to budge. Anyone have any ideas for getting it out? I've soaked in PBBlaster for weeks, banged on it with drifts and hammers, tried levering it with screwdrivers. Access is limited.

I've also tried removing it from below. I've undone the nuts holding the gearbox to the studs, it drops about 1/2". I've tried removing the bottom plate off the gearbox and other than let out a bunch of gear oil I can't get the plate to move more than 1/4". I think there's another bearing/circlip or shaft/key arrangement in there.

Help, wth do I do other thank sawzall out the deck?
 

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Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
Looks exactly like mine SL900. Just did a rebuild on it. The bearing was completely corroded away. I ended up removing the entire windlass and grinding out the bearing.
I can't remove the entire windlass, that is exactly the problem I'm posting about.

The shaft is retained in the upper housing by the corroded circlip above the bearing, and I'm unable to remove the gearbox from below as it is also somehow retained.

I thought the gearbox would slide free once I undid the mounting bolts but it does not. It is firmly retained in there, whacking with a hammer does nothing. This is highly unlikely to be just corrosion. There must be something else.

Is there some sort of retention clip on the bottom of the shaft where it protrudes out the bottom of the gearbox? What would prevent the gearbox from sliding downwards to remove it from below?

Also I'm having a devil of a time accurately identifying this windlass. Parts of it look like one model, parts of it another. It has both Simpson-Lawrence and Lewmar labels on it. Your SL900 looks very similar.
 

senang

.
Oct 21, 2009
304
hunter 38 Monaco
I am pretty sure all those windlasses are build according to the same principles. That you cannot lower the engine/gearbox assembly is very strange. There is no circlip there because there is no acces to put it in position. The only part that can interfere is the keyway that is protruding from the shaft. I installed a drum on my windlass last winter and had a lot of modifications to carry out for that job.
One thing is for sure on the install sequence of these vertical below deck installed windlasses are all the same.
1 - Install the shaft with keyway in the deckplate.
2 - Position the deckplate on the deck, shaft protrudes below deck
3 - Lift engine/gearbox assembly to fit over the shaft and studs protruding below deck. Best is to make a support with a car crick to lift up the very heavy eng/gearbox assembly. Have a helper above deck turn the shaft to get the keyway in the gearbox slot. There is no place below deck for more then 1 person (personnel experience) for this job.
4 - Put the nuts on the studs.

If you have the space below deck (1/2” use a sawzall and cut the shaft. Place a big pile of cloth/ pillows/fenders below because the engine is bloody heavy. Find an engineering shop and have it remade or re-welded. I had to last winter as I had to use a longer shaft then the one supplied.
 
Sep 11, 2011
390
Hunter 41AC Bayfield WI, Lake Superior
From the explosion I see a circlip on the top and the bottom of the bearing. It sure looks like the motor and transmission should just slide down. It looks as is there is a keyway in the bottom of the shaft.

Good luck
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
ok I FINALLY managed to get the motor/gearbox assembly off and then the upper baseplate housing out of the deck.

If the thing wasn't full of corrosion it would indeed slide off. The lower clip prevents the shaft moving up out of the bearing, but wasn't the issue there. It was simply very corroded. A gear puller would work well for anyone in a similar situation.

In my case the lower circlip was almost as bad as the upper one, but with the additional access I was able to get that circlip out in pieces. The bearing was unbelievably corroded. Literally looked like some bronze age artifact dug out of a field somewhere. The inner race was practically welded to the shaft. Took heat, a cutting wheel, and a cold chisel to get it off the shaft.

Still no clue how to get the upper circlip and the outer race out of the base housing. A project for tomorrow. I also need to figure out how to get the long shaft key out. Probably heat and a hammer and drift.

I am going to mic out the various parts and order some spares from McMaster-Carr or similar to carry as spares. I'll liberally coat with heavy duty marine wheel bearing grease when I reassemble.

I see no mention of gear oil in the docs, but my gearbox had what appears to be gear oil in it. There's a threaded plug in the side of the gearbox casting which I assume is used to fill this oil.

Does anyone know what would be a suitable oil for this?
 
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senang

.
Oct 21, 2009
304
hunter 38 Monaco
Suitable oil for my 1000W Quick windlass is: SHELL TIVELA SC 320. But I have been unable to source this, it comes only in industrial big drums. Your best bet is to go to a professional gearbox shop and ask for something like 0,15 Kg of the stuff. That is the figure I got from the Italian manufacterer.
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
Suitable oil for my 1000W Quick windlass is: SHELL TIVELA SC 320. But I have been unable to source this, it comes only in industrial big drums. Your best bet is to go to a professional gearbox shop and ask for something like 0,15 Kg of the stuff. That is the figure I got from the Italian manufacterer.
I doubt it makes a whole lot of difference tbh. Its not high speed or high loads, I've got API GL-5 oil from my last 930 tranny rebuild, but I'm thinking outboard lower leg oil would be good choice since I need to carry some anyway.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
What I found out was about over 5 years ago I took out my windlass to replace the bearing and rubber seal and it really was only a few drips on the wood cabinet and after replacing bearing and seal I found it to be leaking a lot more on the wood cabinet.
Some one here suggested that before putting the drum back on that I load where the shaft comes up to pack
Super lube into where the seal is and allow the Super lube to over flow and this acts as a water sealing and lube at the same time and so far is good.
Nick
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
FWIW I finally managed to get that outer bearing race and upper circlip out of the base plate.

Ultimately I had to use a Dremmel cutting wheel and a small cold chisel. I made successful small "X" cuts inside the bearing race and chipped out little pieces of the race and small 1/4" long sections of the circlip until I got a little over 1/2 out. At that point the race started to turn, probably from a combination of less force/friction and successive heat cycles. I was then able to get the rest out in two larger pieces.

The race will not bend at all, but is fairly brittle, so once you get a good cut in it a good whack with the hammer and chisel will shatter bits out.

WEAR SAFETY GLASSES! Little bits of extremely sharp steel will be flying around!

I did chew up the bore a little but was able to polish it out. Given this isn't a high speed or even really a high load bearing I'm not worried about it.
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
What I found out was about over 5 years ago I took out my windlass to replace the bearing and rubber seal and it really was only a few drips on the wood cabinet and after replacing bearing and seal I found it to be leaking a lot more on the wood cabinet.
Some one here suggested that before putting the drum back on that I load where the shaft comes up to pack
Super lube into where the seal is and allow the Super lube to over flow and this acts as a water sealing and lube at the same time and so far is good.
Nick
Thanks Nick. Specifically are you talking about the large rubber/metal seal that goes into the top of the baseplate and seals against the bottom of the gypsy?
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
What I found out was about over 5 years ago I took out my windlass to replace the bearing and rubber seal and it really was only a few drips on the wood cabinet and after replacing bearing and seal I found it to be leaking a lot more on the wood cabinet.
Some one here suggested that before putting the drum back on that I load where the shaft comes up to pack
Super lube into where the seal is and allow the Super lube to over flow and this acts as a water sealing and lube at the same time and so far is good.
Nick
Doing a little research on this. The specific lube you mention is obsolete and has been replaced by ACEITE SHELL OMALA S4 WE 320 ENVASE 20 L.

Both have an ISO viscosity of 320, equivalent to AGMA 6. This lubricant (and I assume the original you mention) is a polyglycol-based oil developed specifically for use in enclosed gear, bearings, and compressors where conditions demand the unique properties of these fluids. Enhanced wear protection, thermal and oxidation stability, and reduced sludge and deposit formation insure improved performance when compared to petroleum-based lubricants. This lubricant is incompatible with petroleum oils. Care should be taken to make sure the two types of fluids are not mixed.

Many synthetic gear oils are made from polyalphaolefin (PAO) basestocks, which are compatible with conventional mineral oils. However, I still have not figured out which type the original oil is, or even if it is synthetic.

The general consensus seems to be that SAE 90 gear oil such as for outboard lower units is a good choice. HOWEVER in a thread elsewhere I discovered a user quoted John at SL Spares (ex SL employee) (discussing Anchorman 1200):

"Use a car engine oil, DO NOT use a car gearbox oil as it attacks the bronze. Use 0.120L, in the main box, not sure of quantity in the input area where the extra gear is."

Interestingly my query to P2 Marine received this answer from Rob Emmet:

"I wasn’t aware of there was an oil reservoir in the gearbox. Typically windlass gears are lightly greased with a waterproof grease and the bearings are oiled with a light machine oil.

I don’t see anything in the manual about changing oil."

I'm hoping for a response from my query to John at SL Spares, but absent that AFAICT lower unit gear oil s/b bronze safe, the Quicksilver (mercury) SAE 90 is, so I'll be using that.
 
Last edited:
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
To close this out, I used Quicksilver 80/90 outboard gearbox oil. I opened the plug on the side of the gearbox (8mm hex) and let it drain, then filled with approx 6oz of fresh oil.

When I reinstalled the windlass I did things a little differently that original installation. I used Bed-it tape from Main Sail. I used Lucas Red 'n Tacky grease and lubed the shaft, key, bore for the bearing, basically everything. I also completely filled the cavity in the base plate that sits under the first clutch cone under the gypsy (whatever that is called, part #82 in the above diagram). Hopefully that will keep as much water out as is possible with this design.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,735
Hunter 49 toronto
To close this out, I used Quicksilver 80/90 outboard gearbox oil. I opened the plug on the side of the gearbox (8mm hex) and let it drain, then filled with approx 6oz of fresh oil.

When I reinstalled the windlass I did things a little differently that original installation. I used Bed-it tape from Main Sail. I used Lucas Red 'n Tacky grease and lubed the shaft, key, bore for the bearing, basically everything. I also completely filled the cavity in the base plate that sits under the first clutch cone under the gypsy (whatever that is called, part #82 in the above diagram). Hopefully that will keep as much water out as is possible with this design.
I believe this was the SL “Anchorman” series.
A few things,,
Having described all of the corrosion, etc, the one thing you need to address is the motor (assume this is electric)
I would opt for swapping in a newer unit.
And, bed it with 4200. Never 5200, unless below waterline.
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
I believe this was the SL “Anchorman” series.
A few things,,
Having described all of the corrosion, etc, the one thing you need to address is the motor (assume this is electric)
I would opt for swapping in a newer unit.
And, bed it with 4200. Never 5200, unless below waterline.
Motor itself runs great with no noise at all, especially now I've replaced the gearbox lube. One reason for this is on this model the motor is horizontal (I assume a worm or ring/pinion setup in the gearbox) rather than the vertical motor models in which any water intrusion would run right into the motor.

Bed it tape is working great so far.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,735
Hunter 49 toronto
Motor itself runs great with no noise at all, especially now I've replaced the gearbox lube. One reason for this is on this model the motor is horizontal (I assume a worm or ring/pinion setup in the gearbox) rather than the vertical motor models in which any water intrusion would run right into the motor.

Bed it tape is working great so far.
On my 40.5, the capstan was horizontal. Not sure if that’s the same setup you had
Hunter took a vertical windlass, and mounted it horizontal.
I had mine apart many times, and came up with tricks for making this easier.
Respectfully, I’m not sure if the bed it tape is a good long term solution.
The mounting surfaces flex owing to the strain of the windlass & anchoring.
On a winch mount, I think it’s perfect.
Also, it’s a really wet area, with lots of salt water and grime buildup.
Whatever you’re comfortable with, I guess is the best answer
 
Apr 2, 2021
404
Hunter 38 On the move
On my 40.5, the capstan was horizontal. Not sure if that’s the same setup you had
Hunter took a vertical windlass, and mounted it horizontal.
I had mine apart many times, and came up with tricks for making this easier.
Respectfully, I’m not sure if the bed it tape is a good long term solution.
The mounting surfaces flex owing to the strain of the windlass & anchoring.
On a winch mount, I think it’s perfect.
Also, it’s a really wet area, with lots of salt water and grime buildup.
Whatever you’re comfortable with, I guess is the best answer
Horizontal motor below deck, gearbox to run a vertical shaft turning the gypsy and drum above deck.

Maybe on the tape, I'll keep an eye on it. Right now its bone dry but maybe that won't last. If so, 4200 to replace it. Good thing is now I've done the work it'll be easy peasy to re-bed it.

However, the only strain on the windlass is pulling up or lowering chain from the windlass to the seabed, which hasn't been more than 10-15' so far. I don't use the windlass to pull the boat, veer out the chain fast enough to keep the fall vertical, and use a dyneema strop with a chain hook to snub the chain and keep any strain off the windlass (in addition to a snubber).

I'm also trying to be more careful about brining the grime aboard in the first place, using a bucket and brush. Thinking how I might "shade tree" a washdown pump up there.