Flooded O'Day Mariner - Am I Crazy?

Oct 2, 2021
8
Macgregor, O'Day 2-24 Canton
Hi folks!

First post here, so hopefully this is in the right forum.

I very recently came across an abandoned sailboat while driving around which I soon came to learn is a 1970 O'Day Mariner 2+2. Long story short, I was put in touch with the son-in-law of the recently deceased property and boat owner who is currently out of state. This gentleman granted me permission to inspect the boat and, upon removing the tarp, I was mortified to find that the entire cockpit and cabin had completely flooded and is presently holding literal hundreds of gallons of water. I quickly covered up the boat and returned home, but something stuck with me... something kept calling me back to this classic hull... I made a return visit and confirmed my worst fears that the sails were left in the boat and were sitting in several inches of water; the tiller was also present but the rigging, mast, and boom (along with the trailer wheels) were all being stored in a garage. I retrieved the sails and took them home for a thorough inspection and found out that they were surprisingly in great shape, even though mice had made some minor holes in the main. Along with the main were a jib and what appears to be a storm jib, though I have yet to take measurements to confirm.

So here I am, thinking about this boat night and day: the interior is a total loss; all wooden elements have dissolved into paste; all of the cushions are now oversized Petri dishes; every locker is filled to the brim with debris and bits of positive flotation that the mice had gotten into; anything and everything electrical will have to be replaced. Despite this, the hull is in immaculate shape as is the topside and the sails, other than the main, really just need a good cleaning and are quite serviceable beyond that. The galvanized trailer is in mint condition and I'm sure the stored peripherals are in decent shape.

So, bottom line, I offered the gentleman $200 to more or less take it off his hands. I figured this was a fair price, considering, but he came back with a firm $500 ask. I'm at an impasse as I do not know much about these hulls (perhaps the O'Day forum would be another place to seek advice) and am wondering if there is any core in either the cockpit sole or in the cabin area that I should be concerned with. Naturally, I am unconcerned about the boat's ability to float since it is currently holding its weight in stagnant water!

Thanks in advance!

John
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
At $500 walk away. At $200 you would still spend 2K to get it barely usable. There are boats out there in the $2200 range that you could sail tomorrow soooo I would still walk. I've rebuilt several boats over the years and have some experience. I currently have $22,000 in a boat, including trailer that I built, that I bought for $1000 and the hull and interior were in good shape. It doesn't take long to have more money in something than you think. I might get $8000 for this boat in today's market. Be careful.
 
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Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The trailer might be worth something but the hull and/or deck might be full of moisture and rot making it fit for only scrap. Hard to tell without someone knowledgeable who can tell by actually looking at it.
 
Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
Welcome to the forum!!

Survey? If you love the boat design, do not mind spending $$ on restoring an old boat and do not expect to recover even a small portion of your investment then go for it. You have to love the boat.
 
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Likes: BigEasy
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
At $500 walk away. At $200 you would still spend 2K to get it barely usable. There are boats out there in the $2200 range that you could sail tomorrow soooo I would still walk. Be careful.
Don’t walk; run away from this boat, even if you were to get it free. As Rick stated, you’re going to spend a lot of money and tremendous amounts of time to get the boat in usable condition. Spend your time and $ on a boat that you can sail now. Don’t fall in love with a boat in terrible condition.
 
Oct 2, 2021
8
Macgregor, O'Day 2-24 Canton
Love the responses - and just what I assumed! The only two reason I am even half considering this boat is 1) I absolutely love this hull design and size - perfect for my family and 2) I have heard there is no core in any of the below deck fiberglass, even setees and berths, so the only concern would be the deck which I have gone over and am fairly confident I won't be tearing up any core there.

Thanks, everyone! I'll update once I've heard back from the owner and confirm - one way or another - whether or not the "100% fiberglass" rumor is true once she's been pumped dry.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
.

Thanks, everyone! I'll update once I've heard back from the owner and confirm - one way or another - whether or not the "100% fiberglass" rumor is true once she's been pumped dry.
I’m unfamiliar with any boat which is totally fiberglass (except for Sunfish sized boats). Id suggest you verify that with someone other than the owner.
 
Oct 10, 2019
114
Signet 20 0 Ithaca
I’m unfamiliar with any boat which is totally fiberglass (except for Sunfish sized boats). Id suggest you verify that with someone other than the owner.
There are a few out there, mine for instance (Signet 20, thanks for asking), but she's only 20' LOA, bigger boats would start to use an awful lot of glass to make the deck solid enough to stand up to use. Mine makes all kinds of cracking noises when I walk around, so I'm wishing they'd applied another layer or two, but rumor has it one of these was single-handed from SF to Hawaii once, ahhh, those were foolisher times...
 
Oct 10, 2019
114
Signet 20 0 Ithaca
But to the OP, if you're new to sailing (not saying you are, just speculating) and you value your time and money, walk away. You can do better for a lot less than you'll spend not being able to sail for a while... There are plenty good boats cheap these days...
 
Oct 2, 2021
8
Macgregor, O'Day 2-24 Canton
...You can do better for a lot less than you'll spend not being able to sail for a while... There are plenty good boats cheap these days...
I made the best in worst decision in marrying an accountant: one, she is EXCELLENT with saving money and tracking our expenditures; two, frugality is a vast understatement. I was told very early on that I'd only be allowed to buy a boat if I sold a kidney.

I don't mind the work - I enjoy fiberglass (sometimes) but, again, I don't see much/any with this other than some side deck crazing. The mariner is 19LOA so it is possible that the setees/berths were fabricated from FG molds rather than tabbed in plywood (as is my current project boat... She still doesn't know how much I'm going to sink into that project). All in all, I don't plan on spending $500 to purchase a glorified bathtub
 
Oct 10, 2019
114
Signet 20 0 Ithaca
If you're up for the work, and you like the boat, don't quibble over the $200 -vs- $500 question. You say the trailer is "mint", probably worth a grand, yeah? It's not much difference if you can afford it, don't be cheap, man!

If I think the asking price is fair, I don't bargain for anything, it feels a little rude, but that's just me. You asked, he responded, now get on with it.

Have fun fixing your little ship, we love our 20 footer, we're not the fastest on the lake but we're Captains of one of the best looking boats out there...
 
Apr 22, 2011
865
Hunter 27 Pecan Grove, Oriental, NC
The Mariner is a very simple boat. Once it is cleaned up, you will have a blank slate to work with. New cushions, new battery, wire runs to the mast and running lights and DC panel, and you are good to go sailing. There are lots of hurricane sunk yachts that have been resurrected successfully. Just make sure to check for gel coat blistering where water has been standing.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
The current owner is out of touch with reality. There are very few potential buyers for that boat in its current condition. He will never fix it up, and will probably never go to the effort of listing it. It will cost him 300 bucks to junk the hull. He has got a crazy idea in his head that because it is a boat, it must be worth something. Its not. For you to take on a project, I understand that, but for him to have the audacity to charge you for it, is just crazy. Most likely all of the cabin innereds are framed in wood and wrapped with fiberglass. The hull is probably all glass, but the seats and interior shapes are likely all wood and glassed over. The problem with this is, that wood must be replaced. To do so will require gutting the interior - removing any benches or cabinets inside. My first monohull was built this way and was waterlogged on one side. I spent countless hours digging the wood out in small shavings. It was a very confined space and lots of tedious work. The next trick was to cut up some boards to reinforce the interior structure from the inside. Lots of wedging and screwing. Used a pocket screw (Kreg) jig to assemble most of the wood in place. Again, very tedious work in confined space. Most of the bench was less than 5 inches tall. Cut cardboard forms to check fitment to the curve of the hull and then trying to figure out how to wedge solid pieces in the confined space. The only good part about doing it was that I used plastic decking material, so if it every got waterlogged again, no damage would occur.
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
The current owner is out of touch with reality. There are very few potential buyers for that boat in its current condition. He will never fix it up, and will probably never go to the effort of listing it. It will cost him 300 bucks to junk the hull. He has got a crazy idea in his head that because it is a boat, it must be worth something. Its not. For you to take on a project, I understand that, but for him to have the audacity to charge you for it, is just crazy. Most likely all of the cabin innereds are framed in wood and wrapped with fiberglass. The hull is probably all glass, but the seats and interior shapes are likely all wood and glassed over. The problem with this is, that wood must be replaced. To do so will require gutting the interior - removing any benches or cabinets inside. My first monohull was built this way and was waterlogged on one side. I spent countless hours digging the wood out in small shavings. It was a very confined space and lots of tedious work. The next trick was to cut up some boards to reinforce the interior structure from the inside. Lots of wedging and screwing. Used a pocket screw (Kreg) jig to assemble most of the wood in place. Again, very tedious work in confined space. Most of the bench was less than 5 inches tall. Cut cardboard forms to check fitment to the curve of the hull and then trying to figure out how to wedge solid pieces in the confined space. The only good part about doing it was that I used plastic decking material, so if it every got waterlogged again, no damage would occur.
Correct. The boat has negative value.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Hi BierBarge, welcome to the forums. It is always good to welcome a fellow sailor who is smart enough to have made it here among the most generous and knowledgeable sailors on the Web.

I hope that your passing up of this beauty won't be the end of your participation here. I too have fallen in love with the Mariner. I bought mine from a roadside picture I snapped while driving past. I called the number on the for sale sign in the photo and bought the boat over the phone. I don't regret buying a Mariner. I do regret not being able to spend any time with her. I paid $1000 plus $500 for a new main sail and a few hundred to a local seamstress to make new cushion covers, maybe $300? I still have a lot to do to Dragonfly and no time to do it.

One of the big issues with old Mariners is the centerboard if that is the model you are looking at. A 1970 Mariner will have a cast iron centerboard. They can corrode and swell and get stuck in the truck and be a difficult job to get fixed. Mine, luckily was not a big problem. It does need to be resurfaced.

The hull itself will be solid glass, but as noted, the horizontal interior surfaces, such as the cockpit sole, deck and cabin top are cored. There is foam under the berths. You are probably looking at a 2+2 model, which means there's a v-berth and two quarter-berths. Both, I believe have foam inside and a wood core in the decking, although I have not cut into them myself. She also has a self-bailing cockpit and those scupper hoses clog easily. Many owners replace them with larger thru-hulls and hose. They run from the forward outside corners of the cockpit through the cabin space below to thru-hull fittings near the CB trunk, if this is a CB 2+2 model. The best thing you could do for this boat is tear the hoses out and let the water drain. My scuppers on my '76 Mariner practically disintegrated in my hands when I pulled on them. My thru-hull fittings are plastic and they also have disintegrated.

There is are several great Mariner blogs and the Mariner Class Association Website is excellent.
Home - Mariner Class Association
O'Day Mariner #1922 "Orion"
Stuart Marine Corp. (current builders of the Mariner 19)

As much as I love the Mariner and hate to see one lost to neglect, the boat you are describing isn't your best value. She may be very salvageable for someone with all the right shop, space, professional experience, tools and TIME, but I would guess you're not that guy. There is a guy who stripped his Mariner and pulled the deck off, rebuilt the interior and replaced the deck in his garage. It was a massive undertaking that he seemed to take great pleasure in. However, there are Mariners out there ready for you to sail for both less money overall and less time.

The trailer, of course, has value and so do some of the parts, but it takes time and effort to resale, as well. Check out the Class Web site and the Stuart Marine pages. They both have used Mariners for sale.

You are right, the Mariner is one of the prettiest boats on the water and it's a shame to lose one. If you decide to go for this boat, I and everyone on here will be right here to help you, but you probably want to keep looking.

-Will (VP-Comm, Mariner Class Association)
 
Oct 2, 2021
8
Macgregor, O'Day 2-24 Canton
Thank you, Will, and everyone else who replied. Exactly what I wanted to find out about this pretty little boat is whether or not there is core within the cabin as that would be the deciding factor. Great information on the scupper through-hulls - that might be the easiest way to get the water out, if it comes to that.

The owner is completely off his rocker and even stirred up an argument with me, touting his knowledge as a yacht broker as to why the boat is worth $500. I still have the sails so that means I'll be stopping by the boat at least once more to hand them over to him as there's nowhere for me to leave them where mice or additional water won't spoil them completely. For fun, I'll update this thread once more after that interaction but, for now, I'm passing on the floating bathtub.

FYI, I'll be sticking around: I've got a massive project underway with my other boat so I'll be poking folks around here for questions on that as I get deeper into it. That was one of the more fantastical ideas I had about this boat in particular as I figured a week's worth of scrubbing, cleaning and hardware maintenance would afford me some sailing time while the larger boat is still firmly on the hard.

Cheers
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Offer to haul it away if he pays you $500.

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I recommend that you go to "sailboatlisting.com" and do a search with a max price of $3000. See what you could be sailing in tomorrow for less than what it would cost to "buy" this boat.

Also, when buying a used boat... I always think of it as this.... I'm actually buying the sails, outboard and motor. Those all have to be in good servicable condition. Otherwise, you will start spending money fast.
 
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Nov 30, 2020
79
Macgregor 22 Dania, FL
2nd rgrainger. If you can get the PO to pay you to take this eternal headache off his hands, it might be barely worth it.
 
Oct 2, 2021
8
Macgregor, O'Day 2-24 Canton
You have another project boat?!!!! Man, you've got it bad! Get help. But have fun.
I'm somewhat of a masochist...

Also, when buying a used boat... I always think of it as this.... I'm actually buying the sails, outboard and motor. Those all have to be in good servicable condition. Otherwise, you will start spending money fast.
I am, indeed! The following facts are been considered: 1) I'm a masochist (see prior response); 2) Trailer is in excellent shape (galvanized and much newer than the boat itself) and is worth much more than my offer or his ask; 3) Standing rigging and spars are all in tip-top shape and have been stowed indoors; 4) Sails are serviceable, though I won't win any races with them; 5) the top deck and cockpit is in good form with no core rot. All of this translates into a boat that can be sailed as soon as she's unladen of her current liquid cargo.

Of course, all of this is dependent on the owner draining the boat and me confirming that none of the interior has core. I'm thinking of it exactly in this manner: if the interior contains no core, as I'm being led to believe, then there is no "restoration" required other than a power wash, a scrub, and a hefty dose of bleach. Naturally, there won't be any electrical but, since she'll only be on small, northwest Connecticut lakes, and I have no intention of overnighting or night cruising, it is a moot point. It's also small enough that sculling in and out of my usual launches would not be burdensome and therefore eliminate the immediate need for an outboard, thus the additional expense.

So here's the thing: everyone is saying RUN LIKE HELL, and I appreciate and share the sentiment, at least with the logical part of my brain. The romantic in me sees this boat as a being worth the effort and that's what I would really like to hear about: who has owned any of the O'Day Mariners and can tell me about its build quality and if there is, in fact, core within the cabin. Someone had alluded to that earlier, but was not positive. So! If anyone would be so kind to share their experience with these boats, I'd be much appreciative; however, if you want to continue telling me to run, I'll accept that, too, for the entertainment value alone!

Cheers