Damaged fin keel bottom. Can yard move blocks?

PaulK · Dec 3, 2020

If they put the boat there, they can lift it. Our yard has a hydraulic trailer that they use to move boats around in the yard. It is easier to maneuver than the travel lift and lets them get the boats closer together.

. Don't know what your yard has, or what they might charge. Perhaps work out the timing with them just prior to your launching. They may be able to arrange lifting you and then going to lunch, or quitting for the day, to enable you to get the work done.

Tally Ho · Dec 3, 2020

They can certainly do it ...
The question is how many boats do the have to move to get to yours, and how much will they charge.

Greg

Benny17441 · Dec 3, 2020

The boat floats in the water with the keel suspended why would not it sit on blocks evenly placed?

daviddp · Dec 4, 2020

My understanding is that when a boat is stored on the hard "properly" a majority of the weight should be transferred through the keel to the "ground" There is a much more robust structural system in place by design in the keel area. The jack stands (or cradle pads) are to stabilize the load side to side. Removal of the keel support would put the entire load on the pads which could be as little as 6 sq. ft. total in areas of the hull that are not designed to take that kind of loading long term.

There may be a way to "partially" expose the area you need to repair while on the hard.

NYSail · Dec 4, 2020

If you’re packed in so they have no access I think you have very limited options...... speak with the yard and arraign in the spring for them to move the blocks for you. Mean time get under there and do what you can so they can put the blocks in a place you have repaired. I know my yard would not move boats around just to get to one..... and no question I would never attempt to jack my boat up...... probably could be done but my set ain’t that big!

good luck!
Greg

daviddp · Dec 4, 2020

Benny17441 said:
The boat floats in the water with the keel suspended why would not it sit on blocks evenly placed?

Water supports the entire weight of the boat equally over every sq. inch of the hull. Buoyancy vs gravity.

jssailem · Dec 4, 2020

The direct answer to your question is No.
There is not a way to jack up your boat. The sling lift system uses the boats keel to support the weight of the boat as it lifts the boat. The hull is not able to be jacked up. Any attempt will result in puncturing a hole through the hull.

Think about your car. You can lift the car if you jack it up using the frame but not the body metal (ie fender).

To do what you need, the yard will need to do a lift to re position the blocks under the keel or you need to ask them to hang your boat over night in the lift. Then you need to do the work while in the lift slings. Tell the yard the issue and ask for their help. They have faced this problem before.

shemandr · Dec 4, 2020

One yard I used packed the boats so tight with the hydraulic trailer you could barely walk between them. If you were in the back there's no way they could get to your boat. You might have given yourself help by trying to be the last boat out - maybe you did and it didn't work. It was always my plan to - borrowing a term from accounting - be Last Out First In.

dlochner · Dec 4, 2020

As much as you would like to take care of this repair over the winter, that probably won't happen because it will be too cold to work with epoxy. The critical temperature for the epoxy is not air temperature, it is the temperature of the thing on which it is being applied. That big chunk of lead won't warm up until there are many days of warm weather sometime next spring.

When it is time to repair the keel, repair the part you have access to first and then ask the yard to move the blocks. The keel needs to be support in at least 2 places, so the yard will be reluctant to set the boat on one block. Boats blocked with one block can rock during high winds which can cause the stands to move with unfortunate consequences.

No special epoxy is needed, just West System and a thickener. The process is simple, clean the area, wire brush, paint unthickened epoxy over the the brushed area. Brush the epoxy into the lead. Mix up your favorite underwater fairing compound and apply. Wait a day and when every thing is cured, sand, barrier coat and paint. Basically a couple of hours of real work and a couple of days of waiting between steps. The West System site has a free epoxy manual that has more detailed instructions.

rgranger · Dec 4, 2020

NYSail said:
..... and no question I would never attempt to jack my boat up......

... and if something goes wrong and your boat falls over during a blow... or just falls over....takes out three more boats in the process... they could say it was your fault for messing with their setup and the other boat owners would likely not be very fond of you.

daviddp · Dec 4, 2020

Ask Dlochner to tell you the story about jack stands and what happens when things go wrong. He alluded to it in his post above. "the stands to move with unfortunate consequences"

dLj · Dec 4, 2020

Technically you can actually jack the boat up and suspend the keel but if you've never done it, now is not the time to start. We used to do this all the time working on sailboats but there are so many things that can go wrong it's really not advisable. Your boat yard won't do it and they shouldn't. The advice to wait until spring and work out the timing with the boat yard is really your only viable option.

dj

daviddp · Dec 4, 2020

dLj said:
Technically you can actually jack the boat up and suspend the keel but if you've never done it, now is not the time to start. We used to do this all the time working on sailboats but there are so many things that can go wrong it's really not advisable. Your boat yard won't do it and they shouldn't. The advice to wait until spring and work out the timing with the boat yard is really your only viable option.

dj

I am sure a lot depends on the weight of the keel and the size of the boat. Either way, so many things could go wrong that it should be off the table. An overnight hang is a perfect solution when the weather permits.

Davidasailor26 · Dec 4, 2020

Given the challenges I wonder if it’s just best to leave the inaccessible part of the gouge alone for a season. I don’t think a 1/2” gouge in the bottom of a lead keel will hurt anything structurally. It’s not perfectly fair, but unless you’re racing at a high level how much drag could it be? I’d be inclined to fix the part I could access and work with the yard to get blocked differently next winter so the other section is accessible.

Crazy Dave Condon · Dec 5, 2020

First with the weight of the boat, are there enough blocks which to put the keel on? Are they small or big. How many stands each side and are they chained to the adjoining stand opposite on the other side of the boat. Although on the hard, what surface?
If unable to change the blocks, wait till spring. Two part epoxies, barrier coat and anti fouling dry better in warmer weather instead of now. Do you know that Gel coat has to have a constant temp or better of 64 degrees? That is what Frank Butler, founder and owner of Catalina, once told me as a dealer. Now retired.

dlochner · Dec 5, 2020

Crazy Dave Condon said:
That is what Frank Butler, founder and owner of Catalina, once told me as a dealer. Now retired.

@Crazy Dave Condon not sure if you heard, Frank Butler passed away a few weeks ago at 92.

Eight Bells: Frank Butler, Founder of Catalina Yachts

jssailem · Dec 5, 2020

@Crazy Dave Condon, the question was to "jack up the boat". Push it up using a jack so as to get under the keel to do the repair. You better than most will know if that is even a possible idea?

Crazy Dave Condon · Dec 5, 2020

@dlochner
Being retired, I am now 70. Frank always asked me about new small boats or what to spice up the current trends which was an honor in a way. He respected those who stood up to him and there was a time or two and when he was wrong, he apologized and made things right. However, I like to remember him as one of my best friends along with Warren Luhrs of Hunter who too i was close with. A sad day but I will remember him in several ways.
1. What to do with moonshine I sent to him as a Christmas gift. Told him to cut it 7 to 1 but drank it straight. He
was off work for over a week getting well and the factory thanked me. I always tested that shine I made
and Mrs. Day liked it. Never told him I supplied shine to Warren Luhrs for his round the world solo rides.
2. Told him Gerry Douglas once screwed up and of course he got mad. Well, the next day Frank and Gerry called
and apologized and wanted to work with me.. I told them my solution to fix and Gerry said great idea. Frank
said he would call my customer and the customer was very appreciative to say the least.
3. There are other stories but the best one was listening to a boring meeting in Annapolis one year before the
dinner party with the dealers getting tired. I stood up interrupting Frank stating I needed to talk. Instead of
talking to Frank, I sang the famous kitty cat meow mix song to him. Everyone looked at me with my staff crawling
under the table embaressed. At the end of singing, I got close to Frank and purred like a kitten. He said he
he knew I was Crazy but I was "Certifiably NUTS! Everyone started to laugh so hard, I yelled out "let the party
begin." Frank agreed.
like everyone else, we will miss him.

@jssailem
Fully aware of the thread realizing the fact it would be hard to move the boat being packed in. Also I would never suggest a boat be jacked up by the stands as the weight needs to be on the keel plus damage to the hull. In fact I saw a boat similar to his one time at another marina and the boat fell over and onto other boats causing a big headache.

killed 5 deer behind the house this hunting season by others who hunt here. Killed two coyotes as well.