O'day Widgeon conversion to workboat

Apr 26, 2020
4
O'day Widgeon Point Judith
Hi All,
Not sure how this will go over on a sailing forum but here goes.

I've recently acquired an old O'day Widgeon, hull # 19974 and class number 1343.

I got this for cheap, without any of sailing gear, in hopes to turn it into a work boat. Knowing next to nothing about the construction of sailboats I figured I'd ask here to see if this would be a good idea or not.

I'm hoping to mount a small outboard or electric trolling motor to power this boat, but I'm curious if it is safe to do this without utilizing any of the sailing gear. Will the boat still be stable without the centerboard/rudder/etc?

Thanks,
Dan
 
May 1, 2011
4,238
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
It's a displacement hull, not a planing hull. Centerboard is required for stability.
 
Apr 26, 2020
4
O'day Widgeon Point Judith
When would it be unstable, under power or just floating?

might be worth mentioning I would only be going 5-10 mph with a small outboard, or electric trolling motor..
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
Hi All,
Not sure how this will go over on a sailing forum but here goes.

I've recently acquired an old O'day Widgeon, hull # 19974 and class number 1343.

I got this for cheap, without any of sailing gear, in hopes to turn it into a work boat. Knowing next to nothing about the construction of sailboats I figured I'd ask here to see if this would be a good idea or not.

I'm hoping to mount a small outboard or electric trolling motor to power this boat, but I'm curious if it is safe to do this without utilizing any of the sailing gear. Will the boat still be stable without the centerboard/rudder/etc?

Thanks,
Dan
Dan, welcome

As far as I know the boat has some safety flotation and a reinforced transom that you could mount a motor on so you could certainly move the boat around under power. A small electric trolling motor would easily move it, just don’t try to mount a 150HP outboard on it ;)

You mention work boat - if you are just going to use it to shuttle stuff from shore to another location that’s one thing, if you are going to haul in a heavy weight over the side thatanother.

The centreboard in this sailboat if it is down would add stability but if it’s missing or broken you could always just set the boat in the water and move around in it to decide if it’s suitable for your intended purpose.

Better yet rig it up with a mast and sails and learn how to sail, lots more fun than working! :)
 
Apr 26, 2020
4
O'day Widgeon Point Judith
Dan, welcome

As far as I know the boat has some safety flotation and a reinforced transom that you could mount a motor on so you could certainly move the boat around under power. A small electric trolling motor would easily move it, just don’t try to mount a 150HP outboard on it ;)

You mention work boat - if you are just going to use it to shuttle stuff from shore to another location that’s one thing, if you are going to haul in a heavy weight over the side thatanother.

The centreboard in this sailboat if it is down would add stability but if it’s missing or broken you could always just set the boat in the water and move around in it to decide if it’s suitable for your intended purpose.

Better yet rig it up with a mast and sails and learn how to sail, lots more fun than working! :)
Thanks for the info, I took the transom compartment plug out and it seems like that foam is waterlogged, which explains why the boat is so heavy ( I was reading it should only be 180ish pounds?..

Is there foam up front as well? I’m might add hatches to both compartments to remove the foam and add storage and maybe some hard plastic blown floats Incase the boat capsizes..

if I can figure out how to lower the centefboard maybe I’ll use this when I’m underway or working on the bit to stabilize..

the boat will he used for routine maintence on an oyster farm, so no heavy lifting just flipping bags etc..

Are there any manuals out there that outline the construction of the boat?
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
There is a specific area of this site for your boat. You might find info on centreboard etc there.


Try googling Oday widgeon construction. You will likely find some YouTubes on some repairs that might help.

You sure you wouldn't rather just sail it ? ;)
 
Sep 24, 2018
2,587
O'Day 25 Chicago
The centerboard doesnt have any significant weight to it so removing it wont decrease stability. You will however have some very sloppy steering. Turns will be wide and you may feel the boat moving sideways.

I forgot my rudder one day (had just finished working on it) and being an hour away we didnt want to go back for it. So we just used the outboard with no rudder or sails. It was incredibly difficult to control. Kinda like driving an overpowered rear wheel drive vehicle with bald tires through a snow storm. That boat had a shoal keel with a centerboard that was stuck up.

An electric trolling motor will work great on this size boat. A 2-3hp motor would be plenty
 
Jul 30, 2019
216
Seaward 25 777 Fort St. James
A sailboat rolls less because of the rigging above and keel or centreboard below having inertia and resisting rotation. Remove one or both and it will roll like a pig. Assuming a pig rolls, and I have no experience of this. I would be tempted to attach a pair of bilge keels. Very popular in Europe, especially in UK, they are very effective at resisting roll on a displacement hull, especially with forward motion. Build them strong enough to take the weight of the hull out of water, and you can use a cheap flatbed trailer instead of an expensive boat trailer.

Bob

starboard-bilge-keel-s.jpg
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
It's a displacement hull, not a planing hull. Centerboard is required for stability.
The Widgeon does not depend on it's unballasted centerboard for stability. The CB only serves to provide DIRECTIONAL stability, ie: aid in steering and prevent leeway while sailing. I am a former Widgeon owner and have experience with the boat in the water without the mast, unlike a keel boat that will have a more "snappy" roll without the mast to dampen said roll, a lightweight centerboard boat will actually be MORE stable without the mast! The Widgeon hull is not remarkably different in shape than many older rowboats, and will do quite nicely with a low-horsepower outboard! Prior to posting here, Dan contacted me to ask about this subject since I had posted a lot of Widgeon advice, I mentioned the need for adding some sort of shallow skeg for directional stability. Here is a sketch of one possible idea. By the way, on the O'DAY Sailboat Owners Facebook page today someone posted a couple of pictures of an O'DAY 12 that is being converted to a small powerboat, the 12 used the same hull as the Widgeon and apparently this modified boat is working out pretty good! I've added those pics to show more ideas.
 

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Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
if I can figure out how to lower the centerboard maybe I’ll use this when I’m underway or working on the bit to stabilize..

I would not lower the CB much if it is still there, better to remove it and add the shallow skeg like in my sketch, the CB if lowered too far increases drag and draft, plus you will get water surging up into the CB trunk, adding turbulance and drag (remember when I mentioned having played around one day without the mast on my boat? <GRIN!>) The Cb will also bang back and forth side to side without the sideways forces that sailing exerts on it. I don't see the lever to operate the CB in your pictures. See below for a pic of what should be there.

Are there any manuals out there that outline the construction of the boat?

Not really, but a call to Rudy Nickerson at D&R Marine in Assonet. MA (508) 644-3001 will connect you with lots of info on the build on the Widgeon. Rudy was Parts Dept .Manager for O'DAY from 1973-89 and he now runs a little shop supplying parts for our O'DAY sailboats. He actually was building the Widgeon for a few years (1990-2004), an updated version of yours, but still he may have enough info to help you.
 

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Jul 30, 2019
216
Seaward 25 777 Fort St. James
The Widgeon does not depend on it's unballasted centerboard for stability. The CB only serves to provide DIRECTIONAL stability, ie: aid in steering and prevent leeway while sailing. I am a former Widgeon owner and have experience with the boat in the water without the mast, unlike a keel boat that will have a more "snappy" roll without the mast to dampen said roll, a lightweight centerboard boat will actually be MORE stable without the mast!
That would appear to be contrary to conventional naval engineering wisdom. Where is your source for the idea that removing the mast can make a displacement-hull vessel less subject to roll rather than more so? Not that I have anything against contrarian ideas, but I like to see a basis for them.
 
Sep 24, 2018
2,587
O'Day 25 Chicago
Removing the mast would be like lowering the center of gravity on a car. I'm curious if the effect would be noticeable.

A non ballasted centerboard may dampen or slow a roll but it wont prevent it. Ballast will push against any force that tries to roll the boat
 
Jul 30, 2019
216
Seaward 25 777 Fort St. James
Not quite the same. Your car is sitting on the road, but your boat is relatively free to rotate, or roll. It is already weighted to resist capsizing, but the mast weighs very little compared to the weight of the boat and will have little influence on the centre of gravity. Say 100 lbs on a 2000 lb boat. Its influence on rolling is its "moment of inertia", and the taller it is the more influence, even a mast of negligible weight, will have on reducing roll. The same applies to the centreboard, whether it is weighted or not. The centreboard is also operating in a much more viscous medium than the mast, evidently.
 
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Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
First, the Widgeon is more of a planning hull than displacement hull. But, you are correct that on any boat with a ballast keel removing the mast WILL make her roll quicker due to a change in the Metacentric height, the mast tends to dampen out the roll by it's moment of inertia, balancing out the keel. On a lightweight centerboard (unballasted) sailboat there is not enough weight to the CB to cause that drastic change in the metacentric height and with no fixed ballast deep in the boat, the mast is not needed to dampen the roll, and in fact the boat will be more stable without the mast since the center of gravity has been lowered, even though the mast may not weigh much (about 20# on a Widgeon) remember that as a boat rolls or heels, the center of gravity of the mast will tend to move out over the side potentially increasing the capsizing force. There is not enough weight in an unballasted CB to prevent this (it may slow down the capsize, but will not prevent it!), the stabilizing force in a small sailboat is provided by the crew's weight sitting near or on the side opposite to the side that the boat is heeling towards. An unballasted keel or centerboard in the down position will serve to potentially "dampen" the roll of the boat since it creates resistance to the rolling. This is why large ships and yachts have shallow "bilge-keels" out near the chines to help reduce uncomfortable rolling. When designing a skeg, or keel for a power vessel (or rowing/paddle boat) the depth and total area of the skeg or keel must be calculated to be sufficient to provide directional stability (and potential roll resistance) yet small enough to not add excessive drag. Lowering the CB too far when under power instead of sail creates drag and really does not make the boat any more stable and in fact could make her less stable when turning as the boat may "trip" on the lowered CB and be more likely to roll right over.

Small boats also depend on "form stability" more than larger boats, that is to say, the shape of the hull section is designed so that the center of buoyancy will move towards the Low-side" as the boat heels keeping the center of gravity towards the high-side tending to right the boat. That is why even a hull said to be "round-bottom" will NEVER have truly round, continuous shape, there will (or at least SHOULD) always be a flattening of the curve or even a slight "V" to the bottom to create that movement of the CoB that keeps the CoG always in a position to tight the boat (up to a certain point obviously). a true "Round" bottom boat, if the hull section is indeed a true 180 deg arc, will never reach a point where the CoB moves to keep the CoG in position to right the boat (unless ballast is fitted) A rounded hull like that will always be in equilibrium and have no resistance to roll. (Gee, I finally had a chance to use what I learned while studying my old WESTLAWN Institute of Yacht Design lessons! <GRIN!>)
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
That would appear to be contrary to conventional naval engineering wisdom. Where is your source for the idea that removing the mast can make a displacement-hull vessel less subject to roll rather than more so? Not that I have anything against contrarian ideas, but I like to see a basis for them.
My basis for that statement is 8 years of Widgeon ownership experience, 24 years of Day Sailer ownership, 38 years of CAL 21 ownership (ballasted fin-keel), and having studied Yacht Design through the WESTLAWN course. 55 years of general boating experience, most in small sailboats and rowboats including outboard-powered dinghies.
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,046
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Ah did some of you even look this boat up? This boat is pretty much a large dingy sailor IMO. It should be fine in protected waters working Oyster beds. I'd tear out all the foam, go with a trolling motor or small 2-3 hp and forget the rudder and center board.
 
Jul 30, 2019
216
Seaward 25 777 Fort St. James
My basis for that statement is 8 years of Widgeon ownership experience, 24 years of Day Sailer ownership, 38 years of CAL 21 ownership (ballasted fin-keel), and having studied Yacht Design through the WESTLAWN course. 55 years of general boating experience, most in small sailboats and rowboats including outboard-powered dinghies.
Great. That confirms my conviction that all this so-called "naval architecture" field is so much nonsense. I can recommend a trip to Stockholm to see a most wonderful boat called the Vasa, which pretty much proves your point.