Wooden Boats - Someone Talk Some Sense Into Me

[Scott T-Bird]

Is it the general consensus that any wooden boat is a potential classic that is worth restoration and would be found to be beautiful if only restored? Collectively, none of us, not even the current owner, knows the pedigree behind this boat. Jon suggested that it looks like a "Tahiti". Not knowing what a "Tahiti" looks like, I tried to find an example on-line. I found some examples of a "Tahiti Ketch" a rather ugly looking canoe shape, with excessive freeboard, unappealing shear, and boxy cabin top that makes a canoe look awkward, if that's possible.

I don't mean to demean Todd's sense of beauty, but this does not look like an attractive boat to me. Is this a case where we all become enamored over a boat just because of our romance for wood? That's pretty much what I think. The discussion seems to have evolved into a general discussion about the complications of restoring and loving care that a classic wooden boat requires.

Jon pointed out some practical flaws with the lumber, and I'll suggest that he has a good eye for that. He also seems to imply that the boat is a home-build, which is pretty much what a Tahiti seems to be. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/46398 This boat does not appear to be a ketch. It also has a ridiculous-looking bowsprit & a tree-trunk like tiller (if that is what it is).

If the original builder didn't have much skill (that's what I see in the photos), why does this boat merit any attention? Perhaps it is because it has a very new-looking engine. I'll admit that is a positive. There may even be more valuables built into the boat already. Perhaps even some of the wooden structural components have some value.

But the question seemed to be should Todd consider restoring this wooden boat. My opinion is that we can't just jump to the conclusion that it is a classic wooden boat. We don't even know what it is! I wouldn't spend time and money on a home-made, ugly boat just because it is wood. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is a "classic" just because it is wood. I might be wrong, but won't somebody prove this boat's credentials before we jump to restoration? I haven't seen anything mentioned except for Jon's reference to a "Tahiti". Does that make it a classic? I'm not convinced yet. I see that it has an Illinois registration sticker. Perhaps it was built in some farmer's barn somewhere near the Ohio River!

Of course the Bed & Breakfast idea puts a different spin on the matter, but Todd seems to throw out the idea that the boat could also be used for cruising. So which is it, dock condo or cruising classic? What's it supposed to be and what could it be? My opinion is (and it's only a personal opinion) that it is an ugly boat and not worth the effort. I don't know who would find it beautiful, even if improved. It's probably the pilot house that turns me off. It looks like one of those cartoons, like the train cartoon (Thomas & Friends, I'm thinking about). It is charming for a cartoon, not for a real-life boat. Perhaps the shape of the boat would look much better if the pilot house was taken off & re-done.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

My last thought … the beam looks way too narrow to be considered for a floating condo. There is no space aft of the galley. The galley is far too narrow. Interior room does not look promising. It does not look like a promising interior layout for either cruising or dock condo.

 

[jon hansen]

my opinion: the boat is an illusion. it's best options will be to be a nice bon fire. it's not worth ten cents. your a dreamer like most of us here and that's good. but that illusion is a night mare. as tom mentioned, quality built wood boats last about ten years. then you start rebuilding them. over and over and over and over ......................
all the fittings are harbor freight stuff, the tillar was somebodies fence post. the deck house and hatch frames are soft pine full of knots from the free bin at home depot. you cannot get insurance for such. the bolts are zink plate.
i grow up with wood boats, my fathers. sailed the snot out of wood boat for twenty years. i know how to maintain wood boats. i own a spectacular 14' 1948 shell lake, cedar strip, row boat that ready to go. buying that boat would be like marrying a heroin addict. no matter what you think you can fix, you can't

so, read the book i mentioned, it's really funny!
then start learning about the old fiberglass aldens from the 60's era like mine or tom's. there are different sizes for different budgets. got all the charm with far fewer head aches. unless they are in maine, they can be pretty cheap.

for the B&B, buy a hurricane sunk boat on the cheap. throw out the engine, electronics, don't replace. buff it up, strap it to the dock, get rich like my buddy did. save your money now and when the next hurricane slams in, as soon as the roads are cleared, show up with some cash. easy peezy you can buy it right off the harbor floor

enjoy the book

 

[dlochner]

This is a common misconception I've given up trying to correct.

Well, you keep posting those gorgeous photos of classic wooden boats, there is a forest of wood on your boat, and you live in Maine. So what are we supposed to believe?

Sometimes it is best to just let false beliefs prevail.

Don't stop posting photos of classic wooden boats. Let us believe you own one.

 

[Todd Atchison]

Thanks again everyone... a special thanks to Dragonfly... I always feel a bit honored when a post gains your attention captain. You talked me down from a HC31 some time back that was a bit under maintained. Here's what I've learned all by my self over the years. It's not the $1600 or even the $16.000 or even the $116,000 it's what happens next. From the moment one takes possession the expenses and "responsibilities" start to add up. So, I preface ever boat project with... "what next?" and that usually makes the decision easy. In the case of the Hunter Cerubini 31.. yard space, lack of knowledge of the boat, the general state of her upkeep made that an easy one... this is a little different. Cheap... and possibly working for a modest business plan. In that case, it might work very well. The cheaper the better. But, there would still be maintenance and improvements needed and upkeep... even if it never left the dock. There is a surplus of slips here in my area. I can get a deeded slip at a pretty nice marina with all the amenities for three to five thousand. So, figure three thousand for a boat and five rentals a month at $100 dollars... return on investment in twelve to eighteen months. Passive income and maybe save a couple classics in the process and even expose a few folks to the idea of a sailboat. We will keep a Sunfish or Snark moored beside the rental... Just a though, but I guarantee someone is going to do it and own the space in my town and yours next, if they haven't already. There is a whole new generation of young travelers out there who want, small, affordable experiences... It's Derby here in Louisville and I promise if I had one available now, I could get $300 a night. Maybe I should move this to a different post... thanks everyone.

I've decided that I'm sailing a Hobie 16 in FLA in twenty days... and have hulls to wax and buff. If it's there when I return I will offer.... DRUM ROLL. Zero dollars. I will offer to move the boat and relieve the poor marina manager of his problem. He get's $3200 a year for the slip. I'll explain the only way I can guarantee I get anything for my money is the motor, sails and parts. It could be rotten from the water line down. So - place your bets. What will the marina manager say? This should get good now! Oh and I'm going to ask for 30 days to make arrangements.

 

[Todd Atchison]

my opinion: the boat is an illusion. it's best options will be to be a nice bon fire. it's not worth ten cents. your a dreamer like most of us here and that's good. but that illusion is a night mare. as tom mentioned, quality built wood boats last about ten years. then you start rebuilding them. over and over and over and over ......................
all the fittings are harbor freight stuff, the tillar was somebodies fence post. the deck house and hatch frames are soft pine full of knots from the free bin at home depot. you cannot get insurance for such. the bolts are zink plate.
i grow up with wood boats, my fathers. sailed the snot out of wood boat for twenty years. i know how to maintain wood boats. i own a spectacular 14' 1948 shell lake, cedar strip, row boat that ready to go. buying that boat would be like marrying a heroin addict. no matter what you think you can fix, you can't

so, read the book i mentioned, it's really funny!
then start learning about the old fiberglass aldens from the 60's era like mine or tom's. there are different sizes for different budgets. got all the charm with far fewer head aches. unless they are in maine, they can be pretty cheap.

for the B&B, buy a hurricane sunk boat on the cheap. throw out the engine, electronics, don't replace. buff it up, strap it to the dock, get rich like my buddy did. save your money now and when the next hurricane slams in, as soon as the roads are cleared, show up with some cash. easy peezy you can buy it right off the harbor floor

enjoy the book

 

[Todd Atchison]

Jon - you clearly know what you're talking about and thank you. My idea was just what you suggested. There is a Newport 30 here on the hard. It has had it's engine removed and most of the work needed to make a nice little B&B is done. They are asking $2500 and to be honest, it's been on Craigslist for awhile. The owner is incurring expenses as I write (I will offer $1000). Again the idea for the Boat B and B is solid... but, keeping the expenses down will be key. I have awoke from the drunken stupor... I will more than likely wont make an offer. I answered my own question a day or so ago (with help from the group of course). The questions "what next?" is a powerful motivator if you can be honest with yourself. Like I said... I have a Hobie 16, a Sunfish and a Snark to truck to Grayton Beach FLA in 20 days... for a week of sailing! I might add that most on here would probably agree that line of boats is as fun as it gets!

Here is that Newport FYI - https://louisville.craigslist.org/boa/d/louisville-1974-newport-30/6826187700.html

 

[TomY]

This old beauty came into the yard for 'some work' several years ago. She'd just come out of the water and looked ready to go back in, to my adoring eyes.

Her crisp lines cut a wake in the sky on the hard.

The result of the work was impressive. Her exquisite details restored:

The hull back in the water was a sight to behold.

It was an extensive restoration. This was step one:

 

[Jim26m]

I think you made the right decision. There is nothing more beautiful than a well-built wooden boat. Although I don't pretend to know the boat details, it appears a framing carpenter who loved boats, built one. I actually like the general look of the boat as it looks like something from the distant past (or possibly a third world country).
I grew up with hand-built wooden boats. My uncle, a marine engineer, built a beautiful 16 ft inboard runabout for himself. He and my father built several fishing skiffs of various designs. He helped me build an 8 ft hydroplane which I enjoyed very much. He also knocked together a home store wooden "sunfish" copy which we sailed for many years - thanks to regular maintenance.
A wooden boat that size, possibly constructed from spruce, pine, and/or fir, with galvanized fastenings, will be a pretty big money pit, until you get ahead of it. We could haul our boats by hand or trailer and do bottom work in the back yard. A boat the size you are looking at will be another matter - even if you and your partner can do some of the actual work. Hauling and yard expenses, professional help with other large tasks - yet unknown, would scare me off. See step one in Tom's post above...
If this were a beautiful classic design that you were restoring for personal use, maybe so. If you want low maintenance, floating rental property - that boat is not for you.

 

[dlochner]

It was an extensive restoration. This was step one:

This raises an interesting existential question. At what point does a wooden boat going through an extensive refit/rebuild is no longer the original boat, but a new one with some recycled parts?

 

[31seahorse]

This raises an interesting existential question. At what point does a wooden boat going through an extensive refit/rebuild is no longer the original boat, but a new one with some recycled parts?

I have often wondered about that same question/idea/dilemma. We have owned two wooden powerboats in the past: a 1960 plywood SkeeCraft and a 1963? lapstrake style Grady White. Both required a good bit of replacement of rotted wood. I chose to buy some Mahogany from a long-time operating millwork business to replace the cabin sides of the SkeeCraft and in its second repair three years later I used two sheets of marine plywood to replace the transom (which by that time after probing what appeared as a "soft spot" I found that I could stick my fist through the transom's rotted parts). By the way we also repowered that outboard-pushed boat with a new 50 Hp Honda four stroke motor. (Yes, I hear the gasps from the wooden boat purists in the group.) Function over tradition seemed wise and it was Eileen's suggestion!

Anyway, we loved that boat and used it many places from Alexander Bay, NY (and we did sneak into Canada as we explored the northern shore, but we never touched bottom or went ashore) to Goodland in SW Florida where we went out into the Gulf of Mexico and from Pine Island across to Cayo Costa. We also used "Driftwood" in many lakes in PA plus Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia. She was an eye-catcher that made an appearance in WoodenBoat Magazine in the "Just Launched" section plus the wooden boat section written by Martha(?) Martis of Chesapeake Bay Magazine.

The Grady White never received quite the same use because (as any wooden boat lover might identify with) we owned both at the same time!

Finally, I enjoyed working on those boats and felt pride in their beauty and in the compliments we received each time they were launched. At this point looking at wooden boats is my interest, but working on another one is not. I need to work through that feeling because I have an old skin and frame kayak frame that needs work in the barn. It was a kit boat that my father, uncle, and their dad put together and used on Lake Carey in PA.

Sorry, but there are no pictures.

 

[TomY]

This raises an interesting existential question. At what point does a wooden boat going through an extensive refit/rebuild is no longer the original boat, but a new one with some recycled parts?

I don't know that there is a point where it is not the same boat as long as the original lines/design are followed and at least some of the original boat is still a part of it. I know they saved the ballast lead ( ) but they may have saved other components as well. However, this was an extreme 'restoration' if you use that term at all.

That boat was over 100 years old when that work was done.

Usually only parts or major areas are rebuilt at a point in time. Then decades on, another area may be rebuilt.

More the case of George Washington's axe where the both the handle and the head, have been replaced,...but not at the same time.

 

[Charles Erwin]

This raises an interesting existential question. At what point does a wooden boat going through an extensive refit/rebuild is no longer the original boat, but a new one with some recycled parts?

I have my grandfather's axe in my wood shed. I have replaced the handle and the head - but it is otherwise 100% original.

Charles

 

[dlochner]

I have my grandfather's axe in my wood shed. I have replaced the handle and the head - but it is otherwise 100% original.

Charles

But what if you replaced the handle and the head at the same time?

 

[Tally Ho]

View attachment 164207

Curious minds want to know...

A push pole in case the engine won’t go?

 

[Todd Atchison]

Indian whisker pole.

 

[31seahorse]

View attachment 164207

Curious minds want to know...

RE rgranger's post: With so many other wooden parts on that wooden boat why would people be shocked to see a wooden depth finder?

 

[Todd Atchison]

I think you actually win Seahorse.

 

[Todd Atchison]

This is one of the reasons I love this site (and the salty dogs here. You can start with one subject... and end up having a discussion about something entirely different. Since this thread turned into something much different from the original post... I will evolve the discussion to another thread and invite everyone to comment who had an interest here... the question. If you were going to save a few boats from the scrap heap and use them as "Boatels" what models would you say have the best layout/living space? Look for the new thread and comment there. Thanks, everyone.

 

[MikeHoncho]

I think disposal of the hull will cost more than the value of the salvage parts and the labor (your time)to do it.