Wire/Rope halyard to all rope halyard

Feb 7, 2015
1
S2 9.2c El Dorado Lake, KS
I have a 1987 S2 9.2c. I need to replace the mainsail and jib halyards. I would like to convert to all rope halyards instead of going back with wire/rope halyards. The Sailboatowners.com rigging calculator suggests 3/8" Samson all rope halyards. My question is this; will the 3/8" ALL ROPE halyard fit in the masthead sheaves that were originally installed to accommodate wire? I've read various posts and have not found an adequate answer.

I would rather not have to drop the mast and replace the sheaves. Likewise, I would rather not go down in line diameter. Just looking for the best solution.

If anyone has done this specifically (and I'm sure many have) can you please relay your experience, specs and results?

Thanks in advance to all feedback!
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
We replaced our original wire-to-rope halyards many years ago.
I tried some 3/8 and it worked ok, but there was noticeable friction between the sides of the sheave box at the mast head.
I went with 5/16" T900 very low stretch line. Works great and holds (!) in our original housetop clutches. It's just fat enough to grip comfortably with gloved hands.
Strength is NOT a concern; the T900 is rated for about the same strength as the shrouds... !
:)

Watch for sales on this product (or equivalent). Also, we went with a 'halyard hitch" for the knot connecting to the shackles. That way we can end-for-end the line when they are taken down one at a time for washing every few years.

One other caveat -- I did find that some of the alum. sheaves were a bit scarred from years of abrasion by the old wires. Some needed to be removed and lightly machined smooth.

You will like (!) having new lines with no more old 'meat hooks' threatening you.

Cheers,
Loren
 
Jul 30, 2013
56
Hughes 25 Burlington
I am looking to do the same thing but can't get the connection from rope to wire through the sheave. The only choice then is to pull out the other way. How do I connect the new T900 to the wire? FastOlson. What is the length of your mast?
 

fa102

.
Apr 21, 2013
25
S2 8.0C (keel center board w/ MD7A diesel) long island
Did the same for my 1978 S2 8.0meter Center cockpit with 3/8" sta-set line (w/ eye splice for head shackles) the mast head & mast base exit sheaves (grooved aluminum) were sized to accept 3/8" line. (It may be necessar to remove the mast base exit sheaves
too feed the new lines through as the may catch on the sharp inside edges (good idea to file sharp edges / corners smooth).
FA
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
The very simple answer is to build a "tapered" halyard. That would be covering a small diameter high tech core with a less expensive Dacron sheath over the part that is handle and cleated. The strength of double braid line is in the core.

The most common core is UV treated Amsteel ... it's dymeena line that is stronger than steel. I have presented this suggested many times in this forum so I won't repeat. You can see examples at www.apsltd.com in the rigging services section.

Another method is to purchase the complete line with dyneema core, such as Samson Warpspeed, then strip away the cover that is not needed.

On my 27 foot boat, I replaced 3/8" rope x 1/8" wire with a 3/16" amsteel core covered with 5/16" Samson LS.. Cost was around $100 for 80 foot halyard. The 3/16 dyneema has a much higher strength rating than the 3/8 sta set... but if you want to move up a size, the difference between core and cover is 1/8" , so a 3/8" line would have a 1/4" core.

If you do it yourself.... it's quite an easy and rewarding project. The splices are at the Samson website. You'll need to make the taper between core only and covered line by performing a "bury" or taper splice. You use the core of the inexpensive cover line to messenger the new dyneema core into place. At the shackle end most will recommend a "luggage tag" eye splice. Very easy single braid splice that is large enough to bend on or remove any closed loop shackle.

12 Strand "Luggage Tag" Splice

Applies to single braids (Vectrus 12, Ultrex 12 and AmSteel Blue) or the uncovered cores of strippable high tech double braids (Crystalyne, Maxibraid Plus) Basically, a large eye splice that attaches like a luggage tag to a suitcase handle. Use it to attach your halyard shackle for convenient replacement, or to securely attach a sheet directly to a sail's tack or clew, avoiding the weight of a shackle. Includes Whiplock™.

Used with Dyneema and Vectran single braids:

Note: This splice will consume two feet of line, so make sure you order your line long enough.


Stripped Cover

A simple way to save weight aloft is to strip the cover off a portion of your halyard. We strip the cover from the head of the sail to the point just before where it's handled. From that point down we leave the cover so that the halyard can be winched, cleated, clutched or even jumped during the hoist. Also, good for spinnaker sheets in low wind conditions; mainsheets to aid running free; and any control line that would benefit lighter weight and freer running.

Used with high tech double braids that have a 100% Dyneema, Spectra or Vectran core that is coated during manufacturing.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I am looking to do the same thing but can't get the connection from rope to wire through the sheave. The only choice then is to pull out the other way. How do I connect the new T900 to the wire? FastOlson. What is the length of your mast?
Attach messenger line to the clipped off shackle end and pull it through from the mast end. Reverse the process, using the messenger to pull the new halyard through.
 

jguyer

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Sep 16, 2010
41
S2 8.5 Milwaukee
I am doing the same thing to my 8.5 all the above advice seems really good and to my understanding accurate. in an earlier thread somewhere in this forum someone stated that the shives S2 used were designed for wire or 3/8 line. However, shives that had wire may have groves and nicks from the wire that may be hard on the new line.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
I am looking to do the same thing but can't get the connection from rope to wire through the sheave. The only choice then is to pull out the other way. How do I connect the new T900 to the wire? FastOlson. What is the length of your mast?
Our spar is over 50'.
IIRC the old halyard had to be pulled out from the line end. It's been quite a while but I recall cutting off the swage on the wire and attaching a small line to it. I must have taped it well after running strands from that line end up the side of the old wire. I know that i did not lose one inside the mast.
Also, the line tail may fit into the sheave box at the top but may still jam due to the sharp turning radius that splice has to negotiate.

Small boat owners doing this would be better off lowering the spar to make it a lot easier to work on, IMHO.

Loren
 
Jul 11, 2016
8
Serendipity 43 La Cruz Mex (Seattle reg.)
To connect the new rope to the old wire, so you can pull it through, use a very strong Nylon or Dacron sailing twine, and put several half hitches around both the wire and the rope, using the twine to connect the two. Then carefully tape the joint so that it is smooth with nothing that can snag, and not more bulky than the rope itself. The tricky part will be pulling the rope over the masthead sheave, go back and forth until it goes, do not force it enough to break the twine or tear off the tape. I've done this many times as we usually replace the halyards annually, usually replacing old wire to rope with new wire to rope. Pulling it this way is the only way to get a new halyard installed if the shackle is already on it.
 
Jul 11, 2016
8
Serendipity 43 La Cruz Mex (Seattle reg.)
We've just done this (converted to all-rope halyards, and stripped the covers down to Dyneema for the external portion) to four halyards and the new halyards look smart and are much lighter. Best of all the wire is finally got from the boat.
However, we discovered on surprising down side: since the covered portion, (inside the mast) is much heavier than the stripped outside portion, even with the large sparcraft shackle on the end, if anyone on the foredeck lets go of the halyard the weight of the covered portion sends the stripped end rocking skyward. Someone will have to go aloft to recover it. I know from experience it is only a matter of time before someone on the boat does this.
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
What effect does a halyard roller furl twist preventer have in going from wire to all rope?
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Nothing. The block is there to keep the halyard away from the drum.