Interested in input regarding covering my new 309 vs keeping open for the winter. Live around Great Lakes so lots of snow. If cover have to do so with mast down. Any suggestions for building A-frame or getting cover made.
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I don't understand why you have to take the mast down to install a cover. I have a full cover on my 309 and the mast stays up. You probably have a fabricator in your area that can make a cover for you that has openings for the shrouds, etc.
I would HIGHLY recommend you get a cover that does NOT go over the stanchions, as you will have to build a more elaborate a-frame to cross brace the stanchions. Otherwise a snow load on the cover can easily cause the stanchions to bend inward. This is particularly important on the 309, as it has a very wide beam. The wider the beam, the less pitch there is to the "tent". Less pitch means more snow will be retained on the cover.
Get the cover that stops at the gunwales, with the stanchions standing free of it. Any decent fabricator should be able to show you the difference.
Maybe this is obvious, but ask other boaters in your area who does the best canvas work.
I would HIGHLY recommend you get a cover that does NOT go over the stanchions, as you will have to build a more elaborate a-frame to cross brace the stanchions. Otherwise a snow load on the cover can easily cause the stanchions to bend inward. This is particularly important on the 309, as it has a very wide beam. The wider the beam, the less pitch there is to the "tent". Less pitch means more snow will be retained on the cover.
Get the cover that stops at the gunwales, with the stanchions standing free of it. Any decent fabricator should be able to show you the difference.
Maybe this is obvious, but ask other boaters in your area who does the best canvas work.
I have been seriously considering buying a cover, and have talked to a couple of vendors. Very pricey! We store in St. Joe, MI, so it gets a lot of snow. Last year we didn't do anything, (no tarps, etc) and the boat was really clean in the spring. I made a simple plywood winter hatch cover, painted with rustoleum, and take all the canvas off, but since there is no wood on deck, there really isn't anything to "weather". The fiberglass survived great. I have put off doing a cover for a couple of years, just because it doesn't seem to need it.
Ken Reed
C-309 #22 "Duet"
New Buffalo, MI
Ken Reed
C-309 #22 "Duet"
New Buffalo, MI
A good quality winter cover is almost a must have here in Ottawa where I keep my boat. I belong to a large sailing club so before I ordered my boat I looked around and saw how other owners stored their boats. Quite a few were using covers made by Quinte Canvas - The Top Shop. So I did my research and ended up following their lead. I talked to the owner and since my boat was the first cover that he had made for a C309 he came up to Ottawa from Kingston and measured my boat for the cover. Four weeks later I went down and picked it up. If you go to the link that I'll provide at the end of this note, you'll see that the aluminum frame is designed to go out side of the stanchions and bends back to sit on rubber feet on the deck. The cover is high quality and goes on quite easily and ties down to your cradle. We get a lot of snow and ice here and the cover and frame handled it all with out problem. Yes its expensive but its a fraction of the cost of the boat and really protects my investment. A plus is that the cover sits about 4' over the deck and 6'+ over the cockpit so there is a lot of room under it to work on your boat when its on the hard.
Last year the owner of the Top Shop went to the Chicago and Annapolis boat shows and I know he has many customers in the US
www.topshop.on.ca
Good luck with your research. If you have further questions drop me a line.
Gary
Glory Days
C309 #136
Last year the owner of the Top Shop went to the Chicago and Annapolis boat shows and I know he has many customers in the US
www.topshop.on.ca
Good luck with your research. If you have further questions drop me a line.
Gary
Glory Days
C309 #136
Gary- thanks for the information. Have contacted canvas company and obtained quote. My concern is for the strength of the frame given only 1" aluminum. Get alot of snow at times - have clocked in more than 100 inch some winters. Did you have to add any extra support to the middle or ribs? Any special tips I should know if decide to order to make sure optimal fit.
Thanks
Saildoc
Thanks
Saildoc
The 1" frame is quite strong. There are cross braces across the radius of the curve on every second or third leg on the frame as well as two vertical braces that desend from the central spine almost to the deck. The idea is that if the frame flexes under extreem load these vertical legs will support the spine and prevent
colapse.
Here in Ottawa we also get 80" plus of snow but because of wind and mealting I never had much accumulation on the cover. The trick is to have the cover pulled down tightly so that melting snow can't puddle on top of the canvas. This also helps the cover shed the high winds that are my main concern It really helps if your boat is pointed into the prevaling wind while sitting on the hard.
Gary
Glory Days
C309 #136
colapse.
Here in Ottawa we also get 80" plus of snow but because of wind and mealting I never had much accumulation on the cover. The trick is to have the cover pulled down tightly so that melting snow can't puddle on top of the canvas. This also helps the cover shed the high winds that are my main concern It really helps if your boat is pointed into the prevaling wind while sitting on the hard.
Gary
Glory Days
C309 #136
Three words..
Pitch, pitch, pitch!! The covers I've seen from the top Shop are generally a fairly sloppy fit when compared to Fairclough and fit is important in a winter cover.
Perhaps in the mid west the snows are not wet and heavy but here in Maine I've seen 6" collapse covers due to the saturation and moisture in the snow. Winter covers from Fairclough are expensive but also a good value. A cover for my boat is $2400.00 +/- and will last more than ten yeas if well cared for and a shrink wrap cover is $700.00 each winter. I still choose to shrink wrap because I do not want even canvas in contact with my Awlgrip painted hull all winter..
My only gripe with the custom canvas covers is that they never have enough pitch and will usually require internal snow braces in addition to the regular frame. Also the canvas does not shed snow like a shrink wrap cover does.
If you decide to make your own cover just remember:
#1 Pitch
#2 Cross ties at stanchions (prevents snow load from breaking or bending stanchions inward)
#3 Breathability and ventilation
#4 Perimeter board - prevents cover from resting on stanchions and poking through or loading/stressing the lifelines.
Cross ties:
P.S. I know I spelled perimeter wrong but I suck at MS Paint and spelling was the furthest thing from my mind.
Good Pitch:
The material and the design are the two biggest contributors to snow shedding. Shrink wrap sheds snow like crazy.
This particular custom made Fariclough cover has a lower than ideal pitch, I've seen some made by the same folks with a much higher pitch, and when we get freezing rain that then turns to snow things like to stick to the canvas. Nothing beats cotton duck though for breathability!!
Minimal/Marginal Pitch:
If you build your own don't cut corners. These are all home made failures!!
Top Shop vs. Fairclough on fit..
Top Shop Cover: (photo courtesy Top Shop)
Fariclough Colver: (Photo Courtesy Bob S.)
Pitch, pitch, pitch!! The covers I've seen from the top Shop are generally a fairly sloppy fit when compared to Fairclough and fit is important in a winter cover.
Perhaps in the mid west the snows are not wet and heavy but here in Maine I've seen 6" collapse covers due to the saturation and moisture in the snow. Winter covers from Fairclough are expensive but also a good value. A cover for my boat is $2400.00 +/- and will last more than ten yeas if well cared for and a shrink wrap cover is $700.00 each winter. I still choose to shrink wrap because I do not want even canvas in contact with my Awlgrip painted hull all winter..
My only gripe with the custom canvas covers is that they never have enough pitch and will usually require internal snow braces in addition to the regular frame. Also the canvas does not shed snow like a shrink wrap cover does.
If you decide to make your own cover just remember:
#1 Pitch
#2 Cross ties at stanchions (prevents snow load from breaking or bending stanchions inward)
#3 Breathability and ventilation
#4 Perimeter board - prevents cover from resting on stanchions and poking through or loading/stressing the lifelines.
Cross ties:
P.S. I know I spelled perimeter wrong but I suck at MS Paint and spelling was the furthest thing from my mind.
Good Pitch:
The material and the design are the two biggest contributors to snow shedding. Shrink wrap sheds snow like crazy.
This particular custom made Fariclough cover has a lower than ideal pitch, I've seen some made by the same folks with a much higher pitch, and when we get freezing rain that then turns to snow things like to stick to the canvas. Nothing beats cotton duck though for breathability!!
Minimal/Marginal Pitch:
If you build your own don't cut corners. These are all home made failures!!
Top Shop vs. Fairclough on fit..
Top Shop Cover: (photo courtesy Top Shop)
Fariclough Colver: (Photo Courtesy Bob S.)
I've been looking at some framing systems from Kover Klamps http://koverklampframes.com/ & Framemaker Clamps http://framemakerclamps.com/. They show that the ribs are attached to the stanchions. Is this a bad idea and is it better to have the frame secured to the deck in some other way, possibly the ridge being tied to the cleats or with a line that runs through blocks?
I had a look at the example photos and would offer the following comments.
Attaching the frame to the scansions looks to be very secure. Doing it this way restricts the number of ribs that the boat cover would have. The frame that is used in the example is low over the boat and doesn't have a lot of pitch which would limit it's ability to shed the snow load. A better system would have more ribs and a greater pitch. The quality of the tarp material is also a very important component.
Gary
Glory Days C309 #136
Attaching the frame to the scansions looks to be very secure. Doing it this way restricts the number of ribs that the boat cover would have. The frame that is used in the example is low over the boat and doesn't have a lot of pitch which would limit it's ability to shed the snow load. A better system would have more ribs and a greater pitch. The quality of the tarp material is also a very important component.
Gary
Glory Days C309 #136
I agree. When I kept my boat at the side of the house, there wasn't much pitch but I was able to clear it right after it stopped snowing. Keeping a boat at a yard wouldn't be as convenient, so a better design is mandatory.
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