Winch grease recommendations?

Apr 28, 2005
267
Oday 302 Lake Perry, KS
Took the Barient 21 self-tailing winches off the boat this weekend - looks like they've never been touched since they were installed in 1988! That's nearly 30 years with apparently no maintenance! (I'm only responsible for the last 10 years of this neglect.)

Know some of these innards need light oil and some needs grease - what are you all using for winch grease? Harken and Anderson winch grease is about $20 for a tube. Do I really need a winch-specific grease? Or would a good multi-purpose grease work just as good?

Let me know if there's something you're using that works well - and that will get me through the next 30 years:waycool:. Thanks in advance.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
PS review of winch greases.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_70/features/Winch-Grease-Corrosion-Tests_12090-1.html

PS review of budget alternatives. And yes, at least one of these is just as good.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_74/features/Budget-Priced-Winch-Grease_12154-1.html

The typical "every year" advise is overkill for the way 95% of us sail, but 30 years is a bit much. 3-5 years is probably good for most of us. Of course, this depends on the grease. The above studies looked at wash-off, oxidation stability, and EP.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Barient winches are old school but they are solid built. I have 6 aboard. Two new to me 24st’s that i installed last year. I took them completely apart. There are good diagrams. The Lewmar pawl kit is what I used. Everything fit as expected.

Here is a link to the parts manual.
http://l-36.com/winches_pages.php?winch=mod21_1.htm
I used Corrision block for the light oil areas and Lewmar grease for the heavy gears.
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I’ve started cleaning mine yearly, and there is a remarkable amount of dirt that comes out each year. Having said that on our previous boat we didn’t touch them for many years and they were still working fine. I use Lewmar grease and motor oil. The 3.5 oz tube of grease has lasted more than 3 seasons doing 4 winches and the steering chain, so even though it’s not cheap it does go a long way.
 
Apr 13, 2015
156
Catalina 309 Port Charlotte
I may be wrong, but I don't think you need to use the winch grease. I've used standard white lithium grease and oil on the pawls. YMMV...

Dave
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I would advise against detergent or multigrade motor oils for winches. Non detergent, 30W would be fine, 'though where oil is recommended I use something light, like Remoil. For grease, I have a tub of marine grease: it's bluish-green, sticks well, and won't wash off with water.
Yes, 30 years is a long time, maybe even 10 is too long. Three is probably fine, but all of this goes out the window when you consider how much the winch is used. I'd say for racing, at least annually, for what I do, which is probably only 25 or 30 sailing days per year, a three year interval is O.K., if it's done properly. If you're really picky, I'd do it annually.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I would advise against detergent or multigrade motor oils for winches. Non detergent, 30W would be fine, 'though where oil is recommended I use something light, like Remoil.
Why would you recommend against it? A specific reason? Washout? I doubt any quality oil these days would oxidize. There may be some differences in corrosion protection, though 4-stroke marine oils are well-tested in this regard. I've tested greases for winches, but never the pawl oils.

Bearing in mind that some grease will probably migrate into the area.

---

The winches (Harken) on my current boat were ignored for 20 years (I believe) and are somewhat the worse for it. Not terrible, still within spec, but you can hear the difference. That said, I expect them to outlive the boat, now that they are being lubed.

Another truth is that if they are done every few years it does not take nearly as long to cleaning them. Really fast.
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
I agree with Dave. I've used standard white lithium grease on Barient and Maxwell winches for years and it has served me, and the winches, well. I use standard sewing machine oil for the pawls. I doubt Harken, Anderson, Harken, et al, actually make their brand of "winch grease." They just charge more for it.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Why would you recommend against it?
Detergent oil is designed to hold contaminants, including water and particles, in suspension in the oil, because engines usually have the oil changed to get rid of the contaminants. In machines, like lathes, milling machines, and winches, you generally don't change the oil that often, and you don't want the contaminants in suspension, you'd prefer they settle to the bottom, and not remain in contact with the wear surfaces.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
My understanding concerning "light oil" for the pawls is associated with the need for the pawls to move freely in the tight space by the use of a fairly light wire spring. I believe that engineers found out about the issue of grease on the pawls through experience... Worked ok when first installed, but failed shortly their after when the pawl failed to ratchet the winch. Try it yourself.
The gears of the winch are another issue. Here grease is there to provide protection and maintain motion under force over a period of time. The light oil also serves to reduce the occurrence of corrosion. The weakness I see in the design is the spring and the edge of the pawl becoming rounded.

Important to use the correct clips or screws to secure your winch. Going cheap here will give corrosion an opportunity to destroy your winch. Barient winches for example use spirolox snap ring. Not supplied with winch kits I have used. One manufacture does produce these, located in the mid west, having aquired the spirolox brand.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Detergent oil is designed to hold contaminants, including water and particles, in suspension in the oil, because engines usually have the oil changed to get rid of the contaminants. In machines, like lathes, milling machines, and winches, you generally don't change the oil that often, and you don't want the contaminants in suspension, you'd prefer they settle to the bottom, and not remain in contact with the wear surfaces.
That didn't actually explain anything. Did you want the oil to circulate away from the pawls? No you did not, because then they would be dry. Thus, either way, the contaminants are still there.

Although the reasoning holds for machining, where downstream separation processes are employed (I have designed and built use oil recycling equipment at all scales), it is not applicable here.
 
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Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
My understanding concerning "light oil" for the pawls is associated with the need for the pawls to move freely in the tight space by the use of a fairly light wire spring. I believe that engineers found out about the issue of grease on the pawls through experience... Worked ok when first installed, but failed shortly their after when the pawl failed to ratchet the winch. Try it yourself. In point of fact, this only happens if the grease oxidizes, which is very unlikely with modern synthetic grease (with cheap grease Iwon't say) In fact, I have done this as an expereiment and nothing bad happened at all within two years. I'm not recommending it, just sayin' that this terror is slightly outdated.

The gears of the winch are another issue. Here grease is there to provide protection and maintain motion under force over a period of time. The light oil also serves to reduce the occurrence of corrosion. The weakness I see in the design is the spring and the edge of the pawl becoming rounded. I wonder if very light oils are really up to this, unless replenished regularly.

Important to use the correct clips or screws to secure your winch. Going cheap here will give corrosion an opportunity to destroy your winch. Barient winches for example use spirolox snap ring. Not supplied with winch kits I have used. One manufacture does produce these, located in the mid west, having acquired the spirolox brand.
I think some wash-off and corrosion testing is warranted. I'm on it. In my experience, breakage of the spring is the greatest risk. Given the low strain, it must be either wear or corrosion, perhaps in the form of cracking. What alloy do we think these are? I wish I'd have kept a few broken ones for close examination.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
They were bright so possibly low grade stainless. Not sure stainless comes in "Spring Steel". On the refit winches, I found circ-clips made of high carbon steel. They just rust away.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
where downstream separation processes are employed
I'm not talking about that, I'm saying that for lubricating oil that just sits there, non-detergent oil is generally recommended. Every lathe, milling machine, surface grinder that I've ever had recommended non-detergent oil. I don't think a winch is much different. But, hey, do what you want! I don't really care.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I'm pretty sure there are three general reasons for using non-detergent oils. The first is separation in the absence of filters. That is not applicable here. In fact, a detergent oil would better resist gum and sticking. But I don't think any of that is the issue here.

Some applications like non-detergent oils because of ash problems. Again, not relevant. Gas and diesel oils are also formulated with additives to buffer pH effects of fuel burning. Not needed.

The real reason, I believe, is that non-detergent oils, all things being equal, better resist wash-off, because they do not contain, what are in effect, soaps. This is the reason compressors and non-pumped systems like non-detergent oils. They cling better. In machine tools, the issue maybe coolants, which encourage wash-off.

Sounds like time for some testing. This is a low speed application near seawater, so at the end of the day it's going to come down to wash-off and corrosion.

And guys, I was not trying to challenge whether it worked, only to get to the bottom of why a thing works, and whether that also applies here. When you make a recommendation, you've got to expect probing questions.
 
Mar 31, 2013
234
O'day 23 Pa
I've not read every reply, but can only say whats worked for me!
My winches were installed in 79, I'm almost certain I'm the first to touch them since then!
Strip down, and clean, degrease, check for damage. upon disassembly you will see what was greased or oiled, pay attention! it lasted 30 years ya might want to follow what they did!
Used lithium grease (lightly) where grease was used and I used tri lube where it was oiled.
Been 4 years(not 30, I know) and still perfect, and if it's not, I'll redo?
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
For cryin' out loud. For $28 at WM you can get this complete winch maintenance kit that will last many, many years....it even comes with springs... Money well spent.. and it will encourage you to service your valuable winches on a regular basis from now on... BTW don't use motor oil...after cleaning the parts, it's light machine oil on the pawls.... use the little brush to lightly coat the gears and roller bearings with winch grease. That's it. .
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I disassemble and wash all the parts, especially bearings, in mineral spirits. I then pack the bearings with grease with my hands, a light coat on the spindle, wipe off excess; assemble pawls and springs, light coat of light machine oil, complete assembly. It's pretty quick once you've done it once or twice.
 

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,420
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
This is not directly to do with lubricant but I make a habit of slowly turning the winches and listening/feeling for the click of the pawls. There are two of them in every direction and going slowly you can detect if both are clicking and also get a feel for how crisply they are working. Instant easy non intrusive detection of incipient pawl failure.

Be a winch whisperer.