Winch for mast raising

[MrUnix]

If I could find a similar winch made in the USA I would buy it even if it cost twice as much.

Warn Industries winches are still made in Oregon if I remember correctly.. Tractor supply has the 1700 lb utility winch for under $100.. Northern tool does also... but if you wait, I've seen them on sale for around $60-$70. Even though it's rated 300 pounds less than the HF winch, it actually has a larger motor (1.6HP), better speed, better duty cycle and uses less current than the HF winch.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[soling42]

Sadly enough Warn is made in China too. Found on Unixs link to Northern tools under FAQs. That said it still looks like a really sweet ATV/offroad winch.

 

[MrUnix]

Sadly enough Warn is made in China too.

Not sure that's entirely true - it was an answer from a Northern Tool customer service source, not WARN. WARN has a huge manufacturing facility (400,000 square feet between two facilities) in Oregon where they make the bulk of their products and do the assembly. When directly asked about a year ago, a WARN customer service rep told a buddy of mine (via e-mail) that all WARN winches were made in the USA. However, it turns out, like most 'made in USA' products these days, that there are parts sourced from overseas (the motor in particular), and they are really 'assembled in the USA". I'm afraid that in todays global marketplace, you will be hard pressed to find any sufficiently complex product that is made with entirely US based materials.

For example, in 2006, WARN had a recall on the 8 post contactor used on their 2500-3500lb ATV winches. The consumer product safety commission released a flyer indicating that while the winches were 'made in the USA', the contactors were sourced from Japan: http://www.warn.com/atv/images/939/CPSCPR.pdf

Here are some photos of the factory in Oregon showing the manufacturing process and pallets of winches being shipped out from there: http://www.travelswithrover.com/Warn.html

I guess about the only other US manufacturer of utility winches would be Ramsey Winch in Tulsa, OK. Unfortunately, the price differential is pretty big; even their smallest utility winches (2500lb) will set you back around $400 or more. And I'm willing to bet you that even those will have some 'outsourced' parts not originating in the US :cry:

I guess in the end, we will never know the origin of all the parts used for any particular product. But if you are really concerned about buying American, I'm sure that Warn (or Ramsey) will be much closer to your goal than buying something at Harbor Freight

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Here is a link to a video WARN factory tour showing the entire manufacturing process from raw materials, through machining, CNC, pressing and final assembly. The last video focuses on the plant that makes OEM parts and the smaller utility/ATV winches, but the first two are really interesting and impressive as well!

 

[Fly_H23]

It's really irrelevant to sailing where a winch to raise my mast was made. Warn imports parts and assembles them here and then charges twice as much??? That fact right there is why I buy what I can look at in person and fits my needs and budget.

When and if the Unions, manufacturers and our Federal government get their collective heads out their butts and make it possible to make things in the USA we will return to being a great nation. It's obscene that government regulations, high union wages and overpaid CEO's make it prohibitive to build things here. Made in USA used to mean better and longer lasting, now it's simply not true. You get what you pay for and that's a fact.

Now that I have said all that, it's time to add another coat of poly to my H23 galley!!

 

[soling42]

Thanks for the lead on the warn winch. Like most people I genuinely try to buy American if it's within reason. As our products are harder to find every tip to finding better quality and affordable American products helps.

Perhaps to lighten the mood, aren't 99.9% of all Americans outsourced from foreign parts? While I'm patriotic to a fault I'm built from Irish and English DNA which explains why I'm attracted to bossy women and always in conflict with myself.

The biggest gripe I have with my substandard European parts is that my belligerent and pale Irish skin is always fighting with the tropical sun. I'm sure that I'm loosing only because the Sun is bigger than me but I'll betcha a pint that I'll keep fighting

Peace and fair winds, Mike

 

[Fly_H23]

Thanks for the lead on the warn winch. Like most people I genuinely try to buy American if it's within reason. As our products are harder to find every tip to finding better quality and affordable American products helps.

Perhaps to lighten the mood, aren't 99.9% of all Americans outsourced from foreign parts? While I'm patriotic to a fault I'm built from Irish and English DNA which explains why I'm attracted to bossy women and always in conflict with myself.

The biggest gripe I have with my substandard European parts is that my belligerent and pale Irish skin is always fighting with the tropical sun. I'm sure that I'm loosing only because the Sun is bigger than me but I'll betcha a pint that I'll keep fighting

Peace and fair winds, Mike

I'm just glad the name "LUCAS" doesn't get mentioned in boat electrical products! I grew up wrenching on Norton, Triumphs and such with my Dad.

 

[twodzusfittings]

Hey Hey, don't beat up on the "Prince of Darkness". That's my other hobby. 1949 Triumph Mayflower, 1960 Triumph TR3A.

 

[soling42]

ok this thread has ricocheted off into oblivion but since you went there I raced off road English Triumphs and Spanish Bultacos for years and aside from Lucas ignitions and crappy carbs the shop manual implied that if a Triumph wasn't leaking oil then it was only because it didn't have any in it.

Here's a pic of a Triumph Tiger-Rickman Matisse similar to my old ride. I eventually put sticky road tires on it and it was untouchable in its day.....what fun. Now unbelievably my fun runs out at 6kts top speed......I guess it's a different day.

 

[Fly_H23]

Since we are off topic ... My bride asked me what I was reading last night on here, "oh just talking about winches" I said.
She then said, "I'll be you're "Wench"

 

[MrUnix]

Speaking of British...

Amazing how a thread can change directions at a moments notice

But since Triumphs were brought up.. here is a picture of a couple of my current toys.. a Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster, and a David Brown tractor that was built just about 40 miles north of the Triumph factory in England. Neither have Lucas electrics :dance: Both are a lot of fun in their own way!

Cheers,
Brad

 

[twodzusfittings]

Here is my 1960 TR3A

 

[twodzusfittings]

Ooops it did not work

 

[Pat Hooyman]

It's really irrelevant to sailing where a winch to raise my mast was made. Warn imports parts and assembles them here and then charges twice as much??? That fact right there is why I buy what I can look at in person and fits my needs and budget.

When and if the Unions, manufacturers and our Federal government get their collective heads out their butts and make it possible to make things in the USA we will return to being a great nation. It's obscene that government regulations, high union wages and overpaid CEO's make it prohibitive to build things here. Made in USA used to mean better and longer lasting, now it's simply not true. You get what you pay for and that's a fact.

Now that I have said all that, it's time to add another coat of poly to my H23 galley!!

Your made in the USA H23!!!!

 

[Kamanodental]

I have a question. How is the winch stablized? And what prevents it from moving when raising the mast?

Mahalo

Kamano (Hawaii) Hunter 25

 

[shanker]

I forgot about this thread. I can't comment because I will not be doing the winch mod (at least not in the near future). Once I bought my boat, the owner took me through the routine of raising and lowering the mast. It was a snap. So, as of the end of September, I have raised and lowered the mast three times. It goes so easily and it does not intimidate me like I though it might that I'm putting my $ and effort towards other things. I have a moorage set up for next year so my fear of having to raise and lower by myself is mute. I'll only have to do it once and I'll have help for that. I'm not scaping the idea, only placing it on the shelf for a while because I do believe that one day I will need it. But for now, I use the mast raising SOP as stated in the manual.

 

[shanker]

I believe Mike added an eye bolt ot the winch and then secured it to the anchor locker as shown in his post in the third picture. A shackle will work as well. The tension on the cable (between the winch, secured in the anchor locker and mast raising pole) will stablize the winch. It is a very clever modification. I hope I explained it clearly enough. Good luck.

 

[soling42]

Kamanodental, I'm afraid the connection is far too complex to describe over the net. I'll have to come to Hawaii and show you in person.

If I'm delayed.....rest assured that the tension on the cable will direct the drums angle. It's important to have the attachment point on the winch housing right behind the center of the drum. If I'm retrieving line(raising the mast) I can simply tilt the winch slightly fwd/aft to load the cable in an even fashion. Lowering the mast, it'll easily direct itself.

I've only used a 12v winch to step the mast for the last 6 years(maybe 30 times), especially when I had a dock on the wrong side of a fixed bridge for 2yrs. Last time I set up the boat I felt that maybe I'd been a puss and should use the main sheet to see if it was over kill and man I was shocked at how spoiled I'd become. Kudos to those with the constitution and will to do it the old school way but I'm certainly not going to do it again unless I have to. Good luck to the tinkerers who go for it and for everyone else, fair winds.

Now it's my civic duty to price air fare to Hawaii to help a friend in need.......Aloha

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

The biggest problem is the initail lifting of the mast. If you are doing this alone, yes it can be difficult raising. If two people, simply stand at the back of the boat and lift up without raising the mast. With upward pressure does make it alot easier. One of my customers did have a telescoping mast carrier that he replaced the original with which made it alot easier to raise as the angle of the mast was up higher.

If using the winch, you will need to be more careful if the shrouds should get caught as you will not feel the pressure of the mast stopping going up. However it is a good idea but exercise caution that nothing gets caught and you also check the turnbuckles so they will not get caught on the shroud chain plates.

crazy Dave

 

[soling42]

Thanks Dave, Dangly shrouds and turnbuckles are really important to watch out for. Also whenever raising these rigs, another really critical issue is the T-fittings on the shrouds and forestay being seated correctly every time.

Because I was stepping my mast often, I'd use a rather crude but effective alignment device using a 1/2" pvc pipe strap simply riveted right below the T-head. It eliminates what can become a critical error if one is tweaked and fails later in the day(as has happened, thankfully not to me). I only add one rivet on the shroud guide so the fitting can be easily removed, but I use two on the forestay making sure it doesn't impair the stay when it's under load while still retaining alighnment. Aluminum rivets won't cause corrosion issues and are very easily drilled out if needed.

I clearly have too much time on my hands while I wait out the broiling season down here... Here's a pic.

 

[shanker]

Wow, Mike that is just awesome that you are willing to head off all the way to Hawaii to see that his winch is set up properly. Next winter, if I go ahead with this modification, I would expect a trip up to frozen Canada for the same sevice and level of care. It's less that half the distance. You're the best!!